Brexit

Sendraks · **#2141** by **Sendraks** » May 15, 2018 2:14 pm

And he can still in his oar as much as he likes, what is it going to amount to? For the past two years you've happily dismissed everything the Brexiters have wanted as pipe-dreams and then when things have gotten down to the nitty gritty of the terms of the Brexit divorce, you've gleefully pointed out how the Brexiters don't understand how the EU works, won't get their way, can't have their cake and eat it.

So if you've been happy to casually dismiss the stuff Brexiters could actually influence as pipedreams, why the sudden concern about the flights of fantasy of Rees-Mogg?

Scot Dutchy · **#2142** by **Scot Dutchy** » May 15, 2018 2:32 pm

I am not concerned about Moggs and co but this is heading for a hard Brexit which is what he wants with nothing settled about Ireland. What the Brexiteers think of the EU does not concern me but Ireland does. Would you like to see the troubles start again. Maybe that is what Moggs is hoping for some twisted reason.

Sendraks · **#2143** by **Sendraks** » May 15, 2018 2:43 pm

Sure him and his ilk are heading for a hard Brexit but, the EU is highly unlikely to allow this process to screw over one of their own members, which I've been saying for some time now.

Either a workable solution will be found, because that is what the EU and the UK Gov want, or a previously unworkable solution will be made workable because that is the EU and the UK Gov want.

A hard Brexit isn't in the EU's interests and they'll do everything they can to prevent it.

Scot Dutchy · **#2144** by **Scot Dutchy** » May 15, 2018 2:59 pm

Sendraks wrote:Sure him and his ilk are heading for a hard Brexit but, the EU is highly unlikely to allow this process to screw over one of their own members, which I've been saying for some time now.

Either a workable solution will be found, because that is what the EU and the UK Gov want, or a previously unworkable solution will be made workable because that is the EU and the UK Gov want.

A hard Brexit isn't in the EU's interests and they'll do everything they can to prevent it.

Cant be certain though. Which UK government? The one lead by May? Dont think so.

Sendraks · **#2145** by **Sendraks** » May 15, 2018 3:13 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Cant be certain though. Which UK government? The one lead by May? Dont think so.

Ideologically, May would want to work something out.
Competence wise, unless the EU actively helps them, I worry it is beyond the ability of May's Government to solve these problems.

Scot Dutchy · **#2146** by **Scot Dutchy** » May 15, 2018 4:58 pm

Sendraks wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Cant be certain though. Which UK government? The one lead by May? Dont think so.

Ideologically, May would want to work something out.
Competence wise, unless the EU actively helps them, I worry it is beyond the ability of May's Government to solve these problems.

That is exactly what I worry about. People like Moggs are not going to make it easy. May is so incompetent. The EU will demand payment for any help given.

Sendraks · **#2147** by **Sendraks** » May 15, 2018 6:23 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote: The EU will demand payment for any help given.

The EU is going to act in the best interests of EU members, which means avoiding a hard brexit. The EU, being the sensible and mature organisation you so frequently tell us it is, isn't going to make demands if they might compromise getting a Brexit deal which works for its members.

Scot Dutchy · **#2148** by **Scot Dutchy** » May 16, 2018 9:47 am

What compromise? Nothing yet proposed by May is acceptable. So where is the compromise coming from? I can only see one option that will solve all problems and allow the UK to go off by itself. Anything else will mean the UK being in some way tied to the EU. The EU does not want it or the UK. A smudged agreement helps no one.

Sendraks · **#2149** by **Sendraks** » May 16, 2018 9:58 am

Scot Dutchy wrote: A smudged agreement helps no one.

The EU will accept a smudged agreement if it helps one of its members. If the EU isn't prepared to do that, then it probably isn't as sensible and mature organisation as you think it is.

mrjonno · **#2150** by **mrjonno** » May 16, 2018 10:17 am

Sendraks wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote: A smudged agreement helps no one.

The EU will accept a smudged agreement if it helps one of its members. If the EU isn't prepared to do that, then it probably isn't as sensible and mature organisation as you think it is.

Helping its members means ensuring the stability of the single market.

Loss of the single market is not just a few % of GDP but for Europe a possible return to the nationalism and destruction of WW2

How many car sales will German/France be prepared to lose to prevent that happening again, give you a clue lots.

The EU is as much about politics (ie preventing another European civil war) as economics, something the UK has never really understood

Scot Dutchy · **#2151** by **Scot Dutchy** » May 16, 2018 10:22 am

Sendraks wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote: A smudged agreement helps no one.

The EU will accept a smudged agreement if it helps one of its members. If the EU isn't prepared to do that, then it probably isn't as sensible and mature organisation as you think it is.

It wont accept a smudged agreement. That is not how the EU works because it knows all you are doing is setting a timer. It wants clear cut decisions which is not what the UK is delivering.

mrjonno wrote:The EU is as much about politics (ie preventing another European civil war) as economics, something the UK has never really understood

Very very true. It also wants to preserve peace in Ireland as a whole. A fudged agreement would not achieve that.

Sendraks · **#2152** by **Sendraks** » May 16, 2018 10:33 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
It wont accept a smudged agreement.

Within reason, the EU will compromise to avoid Ireland getting shafted.

Scot Dutchy wrote:That is not how the EU works because it knows all you are doing is setting a timer.

You?

Scot Dutchy wrote: It wants clear cut decisions which is not what the UK is delivering.

I agree that the UK isn't exactly helping here but, at some point the EU will cut to the chase to secure a deal with works for Ireland. Because if the EU is seen to leave Ireland hanging, that is going to damage the confidence of the rest of the EU members. And no amount of finger pointing and trying to pass the blame onto the UK is going to help.

Scot Dutchy · **#2153** by **Scot Dutchy** » May 16, 2018 10:45 am

The EU will want a permanent decision in regards to Ireland. No jam tomorrow deal. The UK has to realise that and also the GFA must be maintained. It wont leave Ireland hanging and that point has been made very clear.

mrjonno · **#2154** by **mrjonno** » May 16, 2018 12:47 pm

The question is how big an economic hit is the EU prepared to take to protect Ireland (it won't be as big a hit as the UK will take).

Imp · **#2155** by **Imp** » May 16, 2018 12:49 pm

The EU already cut to the chase with the backstop solution.

Scot Dutchy · **#2156** by **Scot Dutchy** » May 16, 2018 1:52 pm

Very true.

Scot Dutchy · **#2157** by **Scot Dutchy** » May 22, 2018 5:25 pm

Brexiteers thought the world would be queuing up to make trade contracts. :lol:

Brexit: EU beats UK to opening trade deal talks with Australia and New Zealand

Britain left in the dust as Europe forges new trade deals

The European Union has beaten Britain to the punch in opening trade talks with Australia and New Zealand, after the European Council gave the green light to full negotiations between the partners on Tuesday.

Brexiteers had previously trumpeted a possible trade deal with the two Anglosphere Commonwealth countries as a potential benefit of Brexit, but the EU will now have a year’s head start over the UK in getting a deal finalised – with an official ceremony due later this month.

The EU’s trade commissioner said she looked forward to welcoming the Commonwealth countries into the EU’s “ever-growing circle of close trading partners” after the council approved the negotiating mandate, while critics in the UK said the British government had been “outfoxed”.

Arjan Dirkse · **#2158** by **Arjan Dirkse** » May 22, 2018 5:54 pm

The EU is not in great shape either though. Italexit could be next. The EU might end up being Germany, the Benelux, Denmark, Ireland and some Eastern European countries. Not sure about France but if the Front National ever comes to power it's Frexit time.

Scot Dutchy · **#2159** by **Scot Dutchy** » May 22, 2018 6:02 pm

Animavore · **#2160** by **Animavore** » May 22, 2018 8:04 pm

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