Brexit

The talks and negotiations.

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Re: Brexit

#5921  Postby Fallible » Mar 14, 2019 8:47 pm

Dennis Skinner has been there the whole time. Just sayin'...
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If I hear that fucking phrase again, this baby's gonna blow
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Re: Brexit

#5922  Postby Svartalf » Mar 14, 2019 9:06 pm

Spitting image? but, but, those have the common sense the originals lack udderly.
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Re: Brexit

#5923  Postby Scot Dutchy » Mar 14, 2019 9:30 pm

Matt_B wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
ronmcd wrote:
BlackBart wrote:Delayed past 29th March. Shocked I'm not.

Delayed if the EU unanimously vote to allow a delay.

know anybody pissed off at the UK enought to motivate a turn down? with macron in power, we won't topple the cart, however much we might wish to... I don't think the Germans will do it, Gibraltar problems will prevent the Spanish from pushing a no deal enforced brexit... I don't know how Belgium, netherlands and Denmark feel... even less for those countries with no border or direct links to the UK


Poland and Hungary seem the most likely candidates in that they they've got loose cannon hard right governments in power. I don't think that either of them would, as they've not really got any specific issues with the UK, but the ball ideally wouldn't even be going anywhere near those parts of the court.


And also very open to the American pressure for splitting up the EU especially if a nice sum was passed under the table by say Farage.
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Re: Brexit

#5924  Postby Thommo » Mar 14, 2019 10:01 pm

It never ceases to amaze me that someone who can demand evidence for something as widely known as the Netherlands having a reputation as a tax haven can casually libel someone based on abso-fucking-lutely nothing even resembling evidence within a few posts.

Farage is a knob and agitator. But he's not a criminal involved in a brainless conspiracy that would expose him to a potential lifetime in jail without even the prospect of personal gain, this much is obvious.
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Re: Brexit

#5925  Postby Scot Dutchy » Mar 14, 2019 10:37 pm

Thommo wrote:It never ceases to amaze me that someone who can demand evidence for something as widely known as the Netherlands having a reputation as a tax haven can casually libel someone based on abso-fucking-lutely nothing even resembling evidence within a few posts.

Farage is a knob and agitator. But he's not a criminal involved in a brainless conspiracy that would expose him to a potential lifetime in jail without even the prospect of personal gain, this much is obvious.


No when he admits it himself?
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Re: Brexit

#5926  Postby Thommo » Mar 14, 2019 10:40 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Thommo wrote:It never ceases to amaze me that someone who can demand evidence for something as widely known as the Netherlands having a reputation as a tax haven can casually libel someone based on abso-fucking-lutely nothing even resembling evidence within a few posts.

Farage is a knob and agitator. But he's not a criminal involved in a brainless conspiracy that would expose him to a potential lifetime in jail without even the prospect of personal gain, this much is obvious.


No when he admits it himself?


You think Farage has admitted to paying a nice sum under the table (and if you're not aware, that's a phrase that means "a bribe") to split up the EU? And you don't think that's the sort of claim that needs evidence?
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Re: Brexit

#5927  Postby Sendraks » Mar 14, 2019 10:42 pm

Thommo wrote:(OK, she's not actually a princess, but neither was princess Di).


People's Princess = People's Vote yes?
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Re: Brexit

#5928  Postby minininja » Mar 14, 2019 11:12 pm

Svartalf wrote:
ronmcd wrote:
BlackBart wrote:Delayed past 29th March. Shocked I'm not.

Delayed if the EU unanimously vote to allow a delay.

know anybody pissed off at the UK enought to motivate a turn down? with macron in power, we won't topple the cart, however much we might wish to... I don't think the Germans will do it, Gibraltar problems will prevent the Spanish from pushing a no deal enforced brexit... I don't know how Belgium, netherlands and Denmark feel... even less for those countries with no border or direct links to the UK

One question I have, I'm not quite sure of the process for this request for an extension, and perhaps it depends on the form of the request, - but would any of the EU countries be able to attach conditions to the agreement? i.e. we'll let you have an extension but only if x? Or is it a simple yes or no from each country?
[Disclaimer - if this is comes across like I think I know what I'm talking about, I want to make it clear that I don't. I'm just trying to get my thoughts down]
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Re: Brexit

#5929  Postby Thommo » Mar 14, 2019 11:15 pm

minininja wrote:One question I have, I'm not quite sure of the process for this request for an extension, and perhaps it depends on the form of the request, - but would any of the EU countries be able to attach conditions to the agreement? i.e. we'll let you have an extension but only if x? Or is it a simple yes or no from each country?


It would be a motion passed by the European Council, there's no structure specified in article 50, so yes, they can attach more or less what conditions they want.
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Re: Brexit

#5930  Postby fisherman » Mar 15, 2019 12:00 am

Example conditions could be limitations on when or if UK can vote or use veto on matters that affect rEU.
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Re: Brexit

#5931  Postby Scot Dutchy » Mar 15, 2019 6:44 am

Thommo wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Thommo wrote:It never ceases to amaze me that someone who can demand evidence for something as widely known as the Netherlands having a reputation as a tax haven can casually libel someone based on abso-fucking-lutely nothing even resembling evidence within a few posts.

Farage is a knob and agitator. But he's not a criminal involved in a brainless conspiracy that would expose him to a potential lifetime in jail without even the prospect of personal gain, this much is obvious.


No when he admits it himself?


You think Farage has admitted to paying a nice sum under the table (and if you're not aware, that's a phrase that means "a bribe") to split up the EU? And you don't think that's the sort of claim that needs evidence?


He is going to "lobby" member states. When the right wing lobbies most understand what that means and it is not giving away Mars bars.
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Re: Brexit

#5932  Postby GrahamH » Mar 15, 2019 8:19 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
He is going to "lobby" member states. When the right wing lobbies most understand what that means and it is not giving away Mars bars.


"Lobbying" and "bribery" are not the same thing.
Why do you think that?
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Re: Brexit

#5933  Postby aban57 » Mar 15, 2019 8:29 am

GrahamH wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:
He is going to "lobby" member states. When the right wing lobbies most understand what that means and it is not giving away Mars bars.


"Lobbying" and "bribery" are not the same thing.


The only difference is that one has been made legal, for practical purposes.
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Re: Brexit

#5934  Postby Scot Dutchy » Mar 15, 2019 8:33 am

GrahamH wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:
He is going to "lobby" member states. When the right wing lobbies most understand what that means and it is not giving away Mars bars.


"Lobbying" and "bribery" are not the same thing.


The border is very blurred especially with characters like Farage et al.
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Re: Brexit

#5935  Postby GrahamH » Mar 15, 2019 8:57 am

aban57 wrote:
GrahamH wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:
He is going to "lobby" member states. When the right wing lobbies most understand what that means and it is not giving away Mars bars.


"Lobbying" and "bribery" are not the same thing.


The only difference is that one has been made legal, for practical purposes.


There are many differences. Perhaps you are thinking that sometimes lobbyists might resort to bribery (which is illegal), but you can certainly lobby without any exchange of money or other value.
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Re: Brexit

#5936  Postby Scot Dutchy » Mar 15, 2019 9:01 am

We all know how it should happen but when has that stopped people like Farage et al to grease a few palms. Look at the "leave" campaign; every cleanly run.
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Re: Brexit

#5937  Postby aban57 » Mar 15, 2019 9:38 am

GrahamH wrote:
aban57 wrote:
GrahamH wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:
He is going to "lobby" member states. When the right wing lobbies most understand what that means and it is not giving away Mars bars.


"Lobbying" and "bribery" are not the same thing.


The only difference is that one has been made legal, for practical purposes.


There are many differences. Perhaps you are thinking that sometimes lobbyists might resort to bribery (which is illegal), but you can certainly lobby without any exchange of money or other value.


Yes, but the point is always to obtain a favorable treatment, compared to regular people or other companies. It may not be bribery per se, but it's still a form of corruption.
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Re: Brexit

#5938  Postby GrahamH » Mar 15, 2019 9:57 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:We all know how it should happen but when has that stopped people like Farage et al to grease a few palms. Look at the "leave" campaign; every cleanly run.


Is there a shred of evidence that Faraage "greased a few palms"? Why would he need to do that and why would that be effective?


If your favourite conspiracy theory is right all he need do is point out to some rich people that Brexit might save them some tax. That isn't bribery.

Try to be rational.
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Re: Brexit

#5939  Postby GrahamH » Mar 15, 2019 10:00 am

aban57 wrote:
GrahamH wrote:
aban57 wrote:
GrahamH wrote:

"Lobbying" and "bribery" are not the same thing.


The only difference is that one has been made legal, for practical purposes.


There are many differences. Perhaps you are thinking that sometimes lobbyists might resort to bribery (which is illegal), but you can certainly lobby without any exchange of money or other value.


Yes, but the point is always to obtain a favorable treatment, compared to regular people or other companies. It may not be bribery per se, but it's still a form of corruption.


It's not bribery, full stop. It's not corrupt to lobby for a group based on some common interest.
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Re: Brexit

#5940  Postby aban57 » Mar 15, 2019 10:07 am

GrahamH wrote:
aban57 wrote:
GrahamH wrote:
aban57 wrote:

The only difference is that one has been made legal, for practical purposes.


There are many differences. Perhaps you are thinking that sometimes lobbyists might resort to bribery (which is illegal), but you can certainly lobby without any exchange of money or other value.


Yes, but the point is always to obtain a favorable treatment, compared to regular people or other companies. It may not be bribery per se, but it's still a form of corruption.


It's not bribery, full stop. It's not corrupt to lobby for a group based on some common interest.


As I said, it's indeed not bribery, but it's legal corruption.
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