Brexit

The talks and negotiations.

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Re: Brexit

#81  Postby Byron » Jun 15, 2017 4:42 pm

mrjonno wrote:Rationality and reason - yeah like British politics has any relationship to that these days

Given that the Tories ran the ugliest campaign in living memory, with truckloads of slime dumped on Labour by the yellow press ... and lost a bunch of seats for their trouble, yes, there may just be a relationship, albeit a distant one.
I don't believe in the no-win scenario.
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Re: Brexit

#82  Postby fisherman » Jun 15, 2017 4:59 pm

Matt_B wrote:
fisherman wrote:I'm not sure I agree.

The status quo i.e. remaining in the EU, is unacceptable to those who chose leave and carried the referendum, the EEA separates the UK from EU and any further political union is stopped dead, with a repatriation of sovereignty for trade (external), agriculture and fisheries. For those who wanted to remain in the EU, the EEA allows UK to stay in the single market with freedom of movement and the avoidance of a destructive cliff edge exit.
That's real tangible benefits for both sides.

Compromise is necessary for the good of the UK now and this one would get the support of all Westminster political parties.


OK. It's something the UK's 12000 fishermen want. The CFP sucks. I get that.

I'm not sure about agriculture though; while the UK might be able to replace their subsidies they're going to lose their access to cheap labour from Eastern Europe. On the whole I'm getting a gloomy picture from them.

As for trade deals, are there any that the EFTA members have that the UK should be envious of? I'd have thought that the massive bargaining power that the EU had available is going to outweigh anything that an independent UK could negotiate in any case.


If you were for remaining in the EU, few if any arguments for leave were given much weight but I think we have to accept that the reasons given were felt to be valid by those who made them (horribly reductive to point to racism). Regaining sovereignty and preventing any further unification was a frequent reason given for leaving the EU, getting those is a win for leave and can reasonably be viewed as having been achieved if the UK leaves via the EEA.
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Re: Brexit

#83  Postby ronmcd » Jun 16, 2017 11:29 am

As I've said, I'm now UTTERLY confused on the whole brexit issue, I don't have any 'feel' for what the fuck the govt was doing before, and even less of a clue now after the electionclusterfuckomnishambles.

So. How does THIS sound?

The important parts from the thread:
W/every passing day the strong rumour that Davis and others want #Brexit talks to collapse rings truer

I really, really hope it doesn't entail no deal, because that's crazy, yet I wouldn't trust Gove, Davis, May et al not to try to force that


Then the following response:

Well.... ask @J_amespImage


yeah, been hearing this from sources for a while.


It's completely reliable and repeated so often now it's beyond doubt.



:shock: :shock:
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Re: Brexit

#84  Postby fisherman » Jun 16, 2017 12:03 pm

ronmcd wrote:As I've said, I'm now UTTERLY confused on the whole brexit issue, I don't have any 'feel' for what the fuck the govt was doing before, and even less of a clue now after the electionclusterfuckomnishambles.

So. How does THIS sound?

The important parts from the thread:
W/every passing day the strong rumour that Davis and others want #Brexit talks to collapse rings truer

I really, really hope it doesn't entail no deal, because that's crazy, yet I wouldn't trust Gove, Davis, May et al not to try to force that


Then the following response:

Well.... ask @J_amespImage


yeah, been hearing this from sources for a while.


It's completely reliable and repeated so often now it's beyond doubt.



:shock: :shock:


Talks collapsing would IMO provide clarity of the terms of UKs exit from the EU and the new relationship with the EU, meaning that both houses would then vote to accept or reject the "deal". Not sure either house would affirm the government's view that walking away with would be the correct course of action.
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Re: Brexit

#85  Postby juju7 » Jun 16, 2017 12:06 pm

http://ewn.co.za/2017/06/16/since-brexi ... gain-to-eu

Even the British hold a much more favourable opinion of the European Union. Now 54% of them view the EU positively, 10 points up on a year ago, while 40% were unfavourable. In June last year, they voted by 52% to 48% for Brexit. Negotiations on withdrawal terms start on Monday.
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Re: Brexit

#86  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jun 16, 2017 12:15 pm

It is obvious what May is after. Her failure in the election in trying to get Corbyn to win now she is falling back to default; no agreement. The complete lack of preparation just shows how interested she really is in Brexit. Cove and the three stooges seem once again to have convinced that the UK will be fine with no agreement and will not have to grovel to the EU.

Brexit talks: Government yet to submit opening positions despite EU negotiations being days away

Brexit Secretary David Davis confirmed on Thursday that talks to pull Britain out of the EU will begin on Monday regardless, despite cabinet splits over how to approach them and Ms May’s withdrawal plans not even being cemented in a Queen’s Speech
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Re: Brexit

#87  Postby ronmcd » Jun 16, 2017 1:32 pm

Brexit talks start on Monday and we have no idea what we're doing

We are now about to go into the most challenging negotiations since the Second World War with no government, no overall aim, no plan to achieve it, no functioning department to deliver it, no confidence at home or abroad with which to pass it, no trade expert capacity to negotiate it, and no time to manage it.

This is beyond even the bleakest warnings of Remainers in the days after the vote. We must now face the very real possibility of an unmitigated disaster with very severe damage to our quality of life and a painful spectacle of humiliation on the international stage.
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Re: Brexit

#89  Postby mrjonno » Jun 16, 2017 1:40 pm

I'm doing a comedy show on Monday (part of an improv group in Birmingham) - we aren't that political at the moment as things are more tragic than funny these days!
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Re: Brexit

#90  Postby fisherman » Jun 16, 2017 1:54 pm

Is this where you test your new material?
:grin:
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Re: Brexit

#91  Postby mrjonno » Jun 16, 2017 2:23 pm

Its improv so its a bit random by definition.
But being left wing/right on to a middle class metropolitan audience generally isnt that funny, far better to shock by being a right wing character character and be obnoxious

Taking the piss out of vegans normally gets a few laughs (several vegans in the group), saying how good May is doing can be funny

Anyway its all amateur only do it because real life is so unpleasant
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Re: Brexit

#92  Postby fisherman » Jun 16, 2017 2:32 pm

Sounds good fun, pretty cool. :thumbup:
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Re: Brexit

#93  Postby ronmcd » Jun 16, 2017 3:00 pm

mrjonno wrote:I'm doing a comedy show on Monday (part of an improv group in Birmingham) - we aren't that political at the moment as things are more tragic than funny these days!

Eeek. Terrifying, I would imagine. I know someone who did it for a while, couldn't do it myself.
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Re: Brexit

#94  Postby mrjonno » Jun 16, 2017 3:07 pm

Why would i be scared of speaking random shit in front of people, comes very natural to me :)

But slightly back on topic, hang around with quite a few actors/comedians these days and 100% of them are lib dem, greens, Labour remainers. Really does show that as a country we really do live in parallel universes. If you know 50 people and its roughly a 50% chance that they are remainers the odds on them all being remainers at random is like 1 in 2^50 stupid numbers
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Re: Brexit

#95  Postby Byron » Jun 16, 2017 3:54 pm

fisherman wrote:Talks collapsing would IMO provide clarity of the terms of UKs exit from the EU and the new relationship with the EU, meaning that both houses would then vote to accept or reject the "deal". Not sure either house would affirm the government's view that walking away with would be the correct course of action.

Yes, even if May did walk out, the UK doesn't just leave: the two year clock's still in effect, and after the Article 50 Supreme Court ruling, exit almost certainly has to be ratified by both houses of Parliament. The DUP won't under any circumstances go along with a walkout, either (a hard border would destroy them in N.I.).
I don't believe in the no-win scenario.
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Re: Brexit

#96  Postby Byron » Jun 16, 2017 3:55 pm

fisherman wrote:Is this where you test your new material?
:grin:

I've referred to the comedy stylings of Mr. J. before: who knew! :thumbup:
I don't believe in the no-win scenario.
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Re: Brexit

#97  Postby Fallible » Jun 17, 2017 6:41 am

Oo, this is like Game of Thrones!














:whine:
John Grant wrote:They say 'let go, let go, let go, you must learn to let go'.
If I hear that fucking phrase again, this baby's gonna blow
Into a million itsy bitsy tiny pieces, don't you know,
Just like my favourite scene in Scanners .
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Re: Brexit

#98  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jun 17, 2017 10:46 am

Once again the UK has not got a clue:

Philip Hammond to prioritise economic prosperity in Brexit talks


Chancellor says negotiating team is open to ideas from Brussels and will try to find solution that works for UK and EU


The British government will prioritise the economy and jobs in the Brexit negotiations beginning next week, Philip Hammond has said, in remarks that will be seen as a clear signal of his desire for a soft Brexit.

The chancellor said the British negotiating team would be open to ideas from their counterparts in Brussels as to how best to maintain economic prosperity ahead of the opening of negotiations between the EU and the UK on Monday.

Hammond is reportedly campaigning within the cabinet for Theresa May to U-turn on her pledge to take the UK out of the customs union. The Treasury is said to be in “street-fighting mode” and confident that it will win support from Damian Green, the prime minister’s newly appointed deputy.

Speaking as he arrived in Brussels ahead of a meeting of EU finance ministers, Hammond said the prime minister’s pledges to take the UK out of the single market and the customs union remained the “broad principles” of the government’s position going into the talks. He added, however, that the UK’s negotiating team would take “a pragmatic approach, trying to find a solution that works” both for the UK and remaining EU members.

“We are just about to start the negotiation. We set out very clearly our desired outcome in the prime minister’s Lancaster House speech and in the article 50 letter that we’ve sent,” he said.

More...


I just wonder what Gove and the three stooges will make of this? A soft Brexit :shock:

Is Hammond working on his own?
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Re: Brexit

#99  Postby Tortured_Genius » Jun 17, 2017 11:00 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:Once again the UK has not got a clue:


Please don't lump the entire UK in with this steaming pile of shite -it's solely a product of Tory party in-fighting and politicking.

It's the Conservative party who haven't got a clue - most of the rest of us are aware that we are screwed with these clowns in charge.
None are so hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. - Goethe
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Re: Brexit

#100  Postby Fallible » Jun 17, 2017 11:51 am

Yes, Thank you, TG. The lumping-in reached full tedium a long time ago. Half of us don't want this, based on evidence. My own speculation is that at least half of us don't want this. Either way, it's millions. Tens of millions.
John Grant wrote:They say 'let go, let go, let go, you must learn to let go'.
If I hear that fucking phrase again, this baby's gonna blow
Into a million itsy bitsy tiny pieces, don't you know,
Just like my favourite scene in Scanners .
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