Brexit

The talks and negotiations.

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Re: Brexit

#8081  Postby Cito di Pense » Jun 12, 2019 9:20 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:Those tory gits actually thinks they can make demands on the EU?


But you're not actually worried that their demands are in any force, are you? You're just stuck being outraged, like Disappointed, of Tunbridge Wells.
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Re: Brexit

#8082  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jun 12, 2019 10:27 am

Not outraged.
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Re: Brexit

#8083  Postby felltoearth » Jun 12, 2019 1:12 pm

Typing in all caps disproves your claim.
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Re: Brexit

#8084  Postby tuco » Jun 12, 2019 1:37 pm

‘No-deal' Brexit: European Commission takes stock of preparations ahead of the June European Council (Article 50)

As outlined by President Juncker in the European Parliament on 3 April 2019, should a ‘no-deal' scenario occur, the UK would be expected to address three main separation issues as a precondition before the EU would consider embarking on discussions about the future relationship. These are: (1) protecting and upholding the rights of citizens who have used their right to free movement before Brexit, (2) honouring the financial obligations the UK has made as a Member State and (3) preserving the letter and spirit of the Good Friday Agreement and peace on the island of Ireland, as well as the integrity of the internal market.


http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-19-2951_en.htm

---

I have 2 questions. First, how would #3 work? Second, I hear that Mr Johnson is not aiming for no-deal, what kind of deal is he aiming for?
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Re: Brexit

#8085  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jun 12, 2019 8:18 pm

Yep he is in his arrogance still thinking that the EU will still negotiate a more favourable deal for the UK. Being a puppet for Trump enforces this illusion.
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Re: Brexit

#8086  Postby tuco » Jun 12, 2019 8:53 pm

I was looking for more details earlier and got to check his Twitter:

Today I set out my vision for sensible, pragmatic, One Nation Conservatism. We must deliver Brexit by Oct 31st, restore faith in our democracy, and support the wealth creators that fund our vital public services. Together, we will succeed > http://backboris.com


https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status ... 7884716033

and his page: https://www.backboris.com/

I am a Conservative Party member
I am a Conservative Councillor
I would like to volunteer


and was surprised not to find the option:

I would like to support the wealth creators
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Re: Brexit

#8087  Postby felltoearth » Jun 12, 2019 9:36 pm

Yours is essentially “all of the above”
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Re: Brexit

#8088  Postby Svartalf » Jun 12, 2019 9:55 pm

I hope he gets ousted from the run before he looks too serious as a canidate, he may be a glory hound but his reaching the top job would be really bad for the country, you WILL have an economic backlash when the brexit actually comes down, especially if it's the no deal kind, but with the likes of bojo at the helm it might be prone to take catastrophic proportions.
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Re: Brexit

#8089  Postby OlivierK » Jun 12, 2019 10:02 pm

Meh, consider the alternatives. There's no safe choice.
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Re: Brexit

#8090  Postby Svartalf » Jun 12, 2019 10:04 pm

Corbyn is no safe choice either... but yeah, all tories are rotten to the core.
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Re: Brexit

#8091  Postby Matt_B » Jun 12, 2019 10:10 pm

Johnson is rather elusive when it comes to stating his opinions on these issues, but from previous speeches he's known to favour a technical solution to the GFA in which good shipments are processed electronically with no border paperwork or inspections required. There's considerable doubt over whether such a solution is feasible, with the lack of anything similar to point to elsewhere in the world, but it sounds rather better to the Brexit faithful than the UK remaining in the customs union.

As for what kind of deal he wants, he's kept his cards very close to his chest on that and I doubt his plans involve revealing much of them before the contest is over. Again, the majority of the party faithful just want Brexit over and done with and to avoid the split on the right. Without anyone else having what passes for a good plan, just not to be seen to have a bad one is quite possibly going to be enough for him.

I don't think he's Trump-level stupid either. Rather he cultivates an air of buffoonery as a means of deflecting criticism. Given his being the front runner despite a track record of lies and broken promises, I'd think that it's working quite well for him.
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Re: Brexit

#8092  Postby Svartalf » Jun 12, 2019 10:18 pm

He may want any kind of deal, he's not going to get much better than what tessie got, and the EU's store of goodwill has been thoroughly exhausted.
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Re: Brexit

#8093  Postby ronmcd » Jun 12, 2019 10:30 pm

Some journos are of the opinion PM Johnson's no-deal principles (if that's the right word) will last just long enough to become PM. Then who knows what he will do.

I'm leaning towards the idea Johnson will win, then find Parliament do everything to stop no deal, he will be forced into having a general election, and will then win a majority with the support of the Farage Party.

What fun.
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Re: Brexit

#8094  Postby Svartalf » Jun 12, 2019 10:38 pm

:puke:
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Re: Brexit

#8095  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jun 13, 2019 5:20 am

Matt_B wrote:As for what kind of deal he wants, he's kept his cards very close to his chest on that and I doubt his plans involve revealing much of them before the contest is over.


As Svarty says there is nothing to negotiate but this exactly the arrogance shown by the UK politicians on both sides. This extension was not room to renegotiate but to tidy up the withdrawal process and has been completely misinterpreted by especially the tory gits. The new leaders in the EU will even be less amenable to the UK. They want a even more harder line drawn.
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Re: Brexit

#8096  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jun 13, 2019 5:29 am

ronmcd wrote:Some journos are of the opinion PM Johnson's no-deal principles (if that's the right word) will last just long enough to become PM. Then who knows what he will do.

I'm leaning towards the idea Johnson will win, then find Parliament do everything to stop no deal, he will be forced into having a general election, and will then win a majority with the support of the Farage Party.

What fun.


Just how are they going to stop it? This is really a wonder to me. You negotiate and arrive at a deal which is the only one your getting. The alternative is no deal. You have rejected the deal so just how are you going to stop a no deal? Declaring the whole Art 50 process as dead. This would allow the EU tax men to move in and tax the Brexiteers for billions. I dont see that happening some how do you? So just how do they envisage stopping a no deal? By accepting the deal? :lol: :lol: :crazy:
This is the crazy place the tories have found themselves.
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Re: Brexit

#8097  Postby Matt_B » Jun 13, 2019 8:25 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Matt_B wrote:As for what kind of deal he wants, he's kept his cards very close to his chest on that and I doubt his plans involve revealing much of them before the contest is over.


As Svarty says there is nothing to negotiate but this exactly the arrogance shown by the UK politicians on both sides. This extension was not room to renegotiate but to tidy up the withdrawal process and has been completely misinterpreted by especially the tory gits. The new leaders in the EU will even be less amenable to the UK. They want a even more harder line drawn.


For what it's worth, I know Johnson is bluffing with an empty hand. They all are, even Rory despite him trying to give the impression that he's got a vague toehold on reality. Still, when three quarters of the Tory vote wants Brexit delivered come November, they've got to pretend they've got something that can do just that if they want to win.

Reality will start to bite as Halloween approaches and nothing happens though.
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Re: Brexit

#8098  Postby tuco » Jun 13, 2019 9:00 am

What I do not understand is why it's being accepted, bluffing with an empty hand? Accepted by whom? Well, .. I mean after the experience with Brexit-bluffing any rational and responsible person should just reject it as unacceptable or? Either you have a plan and you will tell me now, or just fuck off.
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Re: Brexit

#8099  Postby Matt_B » Jun 13, 2019 10:29 am

tuco wrote:What I do not understand is why it's being accepted, bluffing with an empty hand? Accepted by whom? Well, .. I mean after the experience with Brexit-bluffing any rational and responsible person should just reject it as unacceptable or? Either you have a plan and you will tell me now, or just fuck off.


It's being accepted because there are large numbers of people out there who genuinely believe that the EU is an oppressive and undemocratic superstate that the UK needs to be freed from at all costs.

Yeah, I know. It's like vaccines causing autism, the Earth being flat, the Moon landings a hoax, etc. but it has been a narrative pushed by much of the media and elements of both the main political parties for a couple of decades, even prior to the referendum, with some serious doubling down in the past few years on top of that. Against that backdrop, the reality of what a train wreck Brexit has been is still struggling to break through.
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Re: Brexit

#8100  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jun 13, 2019 10:54 am

Entirely agree. So many ostriches. It still amazes me though the amount of arrogance that is generated in the HoC. A vote against no deal? How was that meant to work? I suppose the idea is that a new favourable deal would have to be negotiated even though the EU has repeatedly said there are no renegotiations possible. Just pure bonkerism of the highest order.
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