Brexit

The talks and negotiations.

For discussion of politics, and what's going on in the world today.

Moderators: Blip, The_Metatron

Re: Brexit

#8781  Postby Scot Dutchy » Aug 13, 2019 4:34 am

The UK is being aligned alright. Even the chief warmonger himself is getting in on the act:

US and Britain could sign sector-by-sector trade deals, says Bolton

After meeting with PM, Trump security adviser talks up post-Brexit relationship

Donald Trump’s national security adviser, John Bolton, has said Britain and the US could sign sector-by-sector free-trade deals prior to a comprehensive trade deal as a way of helping the UK cope with the consequences of leaving the EU on 31 October without a deal.

Bolton said the mini-deals, focusing on areas such as the car and other industries, could be negotiated quickly, and would receive overwhelming bipartisan support in Congress. He was speaking after meeting Boris Johnson and senior British officials in London on Monday.

“The ultimate end result is a comprehensive trade agreement covering all trading goods and services,” Bolton said. “But to get to that you could do it sector by sector, and you can do it in a modular fashion. In other words, you can carve out some areas where it might be possible to reach a bilateral agreement very quickly, very straightforwardly.”

In other areas, such as financial services, he said deals may be more difficult to reach.

His chief message on the trip, Bolton continued, was to convey Trump’s desire to see a successful British exit from the EU, adding, “We are with you.” The Johnson-Trump relationship, he said, had “got off to a roaring start” with five phone calls since the British prime minister was elected leader of the Conservative party 18 days ago.

“Britain’s success in successfully exiting the European Union will be a statement about democratic rule and constitutional government”, Bolton said. “That’s important for Britain. But it’s important for the United States, too. So we see a successful exit as being very much in our interest, and there’s no quid pro quo on any of these issues.”

Asked to expand on this assessment, he continued: “The fashion in the European Union is when the people vote the wrong way from the way the elites want to go, is to make the peasants vote again and again until they get it right. There was a vote – everyone knew what the issues were. It is hard to imagine that anyone in this country did not know what was at stake. The result is the way it was. That’s democracy.”

He brushed aside suggestions made by the US House Speaker Nancy Pelosi that a no-deal Brexit might endanger the Good Friday agreement by reinstating a hard border on the island of Ireland. He said there was no threat to the agreement that he could see.


JFCOAPS. Never mind the fact that Johnson has no control over the UK parliament. Where do these people live?
Railroading does not describe it. It is disgusting. The 51st state is coming.
Myths in islam Women and islam Musilm opinion polls


"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.” — Napoleon Bonaparte
User avatar
Scot Dutchy
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 43029
Age: 70
Male

Country: Nederland
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Brexit

#8782  Postby GrahamH » Aug 13, 2019 4:58 am

If there is a consensus among experts that no deal is not the default just show us the evidence.it would be reassuring to see it.

Count the number of experts that have stated no deal is not the default. How many have you got? I count one.
Why do you think that?
GrahamH
 
Posts: 19938

Print view this post

Re: Brexit

#8783  Postby Scot Dutchy » Aug 13, 2019 8:10 am

Plenty in Brussel and Whitehall who say it is.

A Professor of Finance at Liverpool University does not ignore it:

No-deal Cabinet: time for another Bank of England stress test

Or Watch Professor Dougan Professor or European Law, and Jean Monet Chair in EU Law, at University of Liverpool Law School. analysing May's speech

WATCH: Professor Michael Dougan analyses Theresa May’s Brexit speech

Dougan forecasted back before the referendum the mess we would be in if no won.

Now if anyone would know if no-deal is not valid he would surely.
Myths in islam Women and islam Musilm opinion polls


"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.” — Napoleon Bonaparte
User avatar
Scot Dutchy
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 43029
Age: 70
Male

Country: Nederland
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: Brexit

#8784  Postby Scot Dutchy » Aug 13, 2019 1:16 pm

UK ministers thinks it is still valid:

Risks of no-deal Brexit can be managed by government, says Rudd

Work and pensions secretary had stated in March she believed no deal would ‘do generational damage’ to UK
Myths in islam Women and islam Musilm opinion polls


"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.” — Napoleon Bonaparte
User avatar
Scot Dutchy
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 43029
Age: 70
Male

Country: Nederland
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: Brexit

#8785  Postby Scot Dutchy » Aug 13, 2019 1:40 pm

An opinion article:

Of course the US supports a no deal – it makes a minnow out of Britain

After Trump security adviser John Bolton’s visit it’s clear the price of US backing will be paid both in trade and foreign policy

If you thought it was bad enough when Donald Trump held a reluctant Theresa May’s hand, then look away now. For things are about to get sweatier.

The president’s clammy embrace of the British right continued this week with the arrival of his national security adviser John Bolton in London, to declare the most isolationist US regime in living memory would “enthusiastically” support a no-deal Brexit.

A weakened country, desperate for a trade deal and in no position to refuse Donald Trump’s demands not just to lower our stringent standards or hamstring our car industry but on foreign policy too? Step right this way, sir! No wonder Bolton talks of us being at the front of the queue for trade talks, a line every bit as clearly crafted to help Downing Street as President Obama’s suggestion during the 2016 referendum that Brexit would push us to the back of it. And if these presidents can’t both be right, then arguably neither can the two very different British Conservative administrations responsible for ghostwriting their respective lines.
The real surprise isn’t that the White House actively favours a chaotic divorce between Britain and its European allies, irritatingly sceptical as the latter can be about US power that serves us up on a plate to Washington. It’s that the British government seems so trustingly inclined to go along with it.


Anything to damage the EU. The deal is already agreed upon IMHO.
Myths in islam Women and islam Musilm opinion polls


"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.” — Napoleon Bonaparte
User avatar
Scot Dutchy
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 43029
Age: 70
Male

Country: Nederland
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: Brexit

#8786  Postby zerne » Aug 13, 2019 2:54 pm

GrahamH wrote:If there is a consensus among experts that no deal is not the default just show us the evidence.it would be reassuring to see it.


Are you really asking me to provide evidence for a claim i have not made? I have none. I generally don't need evidence for things i don't claim as i don't make those claims to begin with.

GrahamH wrote:Count the number of experts that have stated no deal is not the default. How many have you got? I count one.


You've gone from false dichotomy to argumentum ad populum. Numbers are irrelevant to the soundness of an argument. Do you have any objection to what Rosie Slowe has written that isn't based on some fallacy?
User avatar
zerne
 
Posts: 870
Age: 46
Male

European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: Brexit

#8787  Postby GrahamH » Aug 13, 2019 4:51 pm

You really are desperate to believe rosie aren't you?
Why do you think that?
GrahamH
 
Posts: 19938

Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Brexit

#8788  Postby zerne » Aug 13, 2019 5:02 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
zerne wrote:
GrahamH wrote:Are you or moorhouse now experts on international law?


I don't think that follows from anything i've said. I haven't claimed expertise in anything and defer to those with arguments better than my own. Such as Rosie Slowe's. It does make sense that in a Parliamentary Democracy having the confidence and overall control of Parliament would appear to be a must before making any radical changes to a country's constitution. Boris doesn't have that. May may have had it back in 2017.


You are claiming that an "academic" expert knows better than the combined knowledge of the EU and UK governments by throwing in this red herring at this late stage of the game. The issue does not lie solely with the UK government who have little say over the present situation. Nobody in the UK has control of Parliament. It is a situation that thanks to the UK political system has evolved in this present situation.

Just how do you make changes to something that does not exist and will not exist has long as the HoL is allowed to exist?


I haven't said anything like that at all. Please don't be silly.
User avatar
zerne
 
Posts: 870
Age: 46
Male

European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: Brexit

#8789  Postby zerne » Aug 13, 2019 5:04 pm

GrahamH wrote:You really are desperate to believe rosie aren't you?


No. It's a good argument.
User avatar
zerne
 
Posts: 870
Age: 46
Male

European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: Brexit

#8790  Postby Scot Dutchy » Aug 13, 2019 5:06 pm

Did you zerne actually read what I had posted? One of the top experts of European law and you would rather believe a so called "academic". Slowe is doing the Brexiteer trick of creating a smoke screen. Why dont you think Dougan and the rest of his team have not come up with Slowe's opinions? I will tell you simply they are not valid.
Myths in islam Women and islam Musilm opinion polls


"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.” — Napoleon Bonaparte
User avatar
Scot Dutchy
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 43029
Age: 70
Male

Country: Nederland
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: Brexit

#8791  Postby Scot Dutchy » Aug 13, 2019 5:09 pm

zerne wrote:
GrahamH wrote:You really are desperate to believe rosie aren't you?


No. It's a good argument.


It is not. If it was why has no one else picked it up? Why has not Dougan and his team picked it up? Are they all asleep?
Myths in islam Women and islam Musilm opinion polls


"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.” — Napoleon Bonaparte
User avatar
Scot Dutchy
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 43029
Age: 70
Male

Country: Nederland
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: Brexit

#8792  Postby GrahamH » Aug 13, 2019 6:27 pm

zerne wrote:
GrahamH wrote:You really are desperate to believe rosie aren't you?


No. It's a good argument.


You really should apply some rational skepticism.
At least compare and contrast the two "Good arguments" Rosie published. Where did she go wrong in the first to make the second the right one?

NB expert consensus is not a fallacy and pointing out that your stance so far has been an appeal to authority based on one opinion of a single expert is not an argument. :naughty:
Why do you think that?
GrahamH
 
Posts: 19938

Print view this post

Re: Brexit

#8793  Postby zerne » Aug 13, 2019 7:12 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:Did you zerne actually read what I had posted? One of the top experts of European law and you would rather believe a so called "academic". Slowe is doing the Brexiteer trick of creating a smoke screen. Why dont you think Dougan and the rest of his team have not come up with Slowe's opinions? I will tell you simply they are not valid.


I did, one is a Finance Professor questioning why a developed economy would willingly inflict barriers to trade on itself and the other is Dougan commenting on May's speech in 2017. Why do you consider either of these pieces as being contradictory to Slowe's piece? They are largley unrelated and deal with different areas and specifics. :scratch:
User avatar
zerne
 
Posts: 870
Age: 46
Male

European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: Brexit

#8794  Postby zerne » Aug 13, 2019 7:16 pm

btw, at about nine minute mark in that video, Dougan says that the no deal threat made by May is not a credible or realistic. :)
User avatar
zerne
 
Posts: 870
Age: 46
Male

European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: Brexit

#8795  Postby zerne » Aug 13, 2019 7:27 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
zerne wrote:
GrahamH wrote:You really are desperate to believe rosie aren't you?


No. It's a good argument.


It is not. If it was why has no one else picked it up? Why has not Dougan and his team picked it up? Are they all asleep?


Phil Moorehouse picked it up, made a youtube video and created a petition. :grin:
User avatar
zerne
 
Posts: 870
Age: 46
Male

European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Brexit

#8796  Postby Imp » Aug 13, 2019 9:50 pm

Face it man, when people agree with Scot over you, you've gone wrong somewhere.
Even creationism evolves - Mr P (Grizby)
:offtopic:

THWOTH wrote:Devil spawn kitty killer! :mad:
User avatar
Imp
RS Donator
 
Posts: 1385
Male

Jolly Roger (arr)
Print view this post

Re: Brexit

#8797  Postby Scot Dutchy » Aug 14, 2019 5:58 am

Why? I plough my own furrow.
Myths in islam Women and islam Musilm opinion polls


"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.” — Napoleon Bonaparte
User avatar
Scot Dutchy
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 43029
Age: 70
Male

Country: Nederland
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: Brexit

#8798  Postby Scot Dutchy » Aug 14, 2019 6:02 am

zerne wrote:btw, at about nine minute mark in that video, Dougan says that the no deal threat made by May is not a credible or realistic. :)


But it is a fact although it may not be credible or realistic.
Myths in islam Women and islam Musilm opinion polls


"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.” — Napoleon Bonaparte
User avatar
Scot Dutchy
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 43029
Age: 70
Male

Country: Nederland
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: Brexit

#8799  Postby Spearthrower » Aug 14, 2019 6:39 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:Why? I plough my own furrow.



:lol: :lol: :lol:
I'm not an atheist; I just don't believe in gods :- that which I don't belong to isn't a group!
Religion: Mass Stockholm Syndrome

Learn Stuff. Stuff good. https://www.coursera.org/
User avatar
Spearthrower
 
Posts: 25337
Age: 43
Male

Country: Thailand
Print view this post

Re: Brexit

#8800  Postby GrahamH » Aug 14, 2019 7:56 am

zerne wrote:btw, at about nine minute mark in that video, Dougan says that the no deal threat made by May is not a credible or realistic. :)


Irrelevant. Where does Dougan say no deal is not the default?
Why do you think that?
GrahamH
 
Posts: 19938

Print view this post

PreviousNext

Return to News, Politics & Current Affairs

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 7 guests