Brexit

The talks and negotiations.

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Re: Brexit

#9201  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Sep 09, 2019 9:28 pm

Northern Ireland MPs are currently whinging about their abortion law, while trying to defend it by asserting there are over a 100.000 people alive in NI that wouldn't have been if they'd adopted the British abortion law.

:banghead:
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Brexit

#9202  Postby zerne » Sep 09, 2019 11:32 pm

Aye 293-46 No
Not enough, BJ is defeated again.
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Re: Brexit

#9203  Postby Veida » Sep 10, 2019 8:03 am

Watching this from afar an not all that interested:

Brexit. What an amazing shitstorm.
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Re: Brexit

#9204  Postby zerne » Sep 10, 2019 10:11 am

Yup, it's a shitstorm lright. A soft hail of turds pattering around us and frequent flash floods of diarrhoea from the government.

All now mothballed for a month. See you on Oct 14th :)
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Re: Brexit

#9205  Postby ronmcd » Sep 10, 2019 11:13 am

“That was when they suspended the Constitution. They said it would be temporary. There wasn't even any rioting in the streets. People stayed home at night, watching television. There wasn't even an enemy you could put your finger on.”
― The Handmaid’s Tale

https://twitter.com/davidschneider/stat ... 4389672961
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Re: Brexit

#9206  Postby Scot Dutchy » Sep 10, 2019 7:36 pm

Who is surprised? I am not.
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Re: Brexit

#9207  Postby zerne » Sep 11, 2019 10:05 am

http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/boris-johnson-s-prorogation-plan-was-unlawful-1-6263563

Court of Session in Edinburgh rules prorogation to be unlawful.
So not quite over yet.
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Re: Brexit

#9208  Postby Alan B » Sep 11, 2019 10:43 am

I wonder if the English courts will agree?

Interesting times.
Last edited by Alan B on Sep 11, 2019 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brexit

#9209  Postby zerne » Sep 11, 2019 10:57 am

Is the Court of Session not a UK court then?
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Re: Brexit

#9210  Postby Alan B » Sep 11, 2019 11:25 am

zerne wrote:Is the Court of Session not a UK court then?

Edit.
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Re: Brexit

#9211  Postby zerne » Sep 11, 2019 12:12 pm

Alan B wrote:
zerne wrote:Is the Court of Session not a UK court then?

Edit.


heh, careful now. that sort of thing causes unrest. :)
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Re: Brexit

#9212  Postby Sendraks » Sep 11, 2019 12:38 pm

Alan B wrote:I wonder if the English courts will agree?


If this is within the exclusive jurisdiction of the High Court of the Justiciary, then this is not a matter on which the English courts have a say. Hence it goes to the UK Supreme Court, not the English High Courts. And its only going to the UK Supreme Court because it has primacy on civil cases. If this was a criminal matter, I'm not sure what the appeal procedure above the Scottish Supreme court is.
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Re: Brexit

#9213  Postby ronmcd » Sep 11, 2019 3:07 pm

The Scottish courts had decided prorogation was legal. The English courts did likewise. The Scottish appeal went to the highest civil court in Scotland, the Court of Session ("founded in 1532, fully 175 years before the Union of the Parliaments brought Scotland and England together in 1707") and they have concluded the advice (as opposed to prorogation) was unlawful.

The English court appeal is to be heard at the Supreme Court, as is the UK Govt appeal. All bundled together, I guess?
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Re: Brexit

#9214  Postby ronmcd » Sep 11, 2019 3:10 pm

It will likely to overturned by the Supreme Court, but it's conceivable that they could find both true - the English court decision that prorogation was legal, and the Scottish court decision that the *advice* was unlawful, both upheld.

But unlikely.

:popcorn:
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Re: Brexit

#9215  Postby Sendraks » Sep 11, 2019 3:30 pm

ronmcd wrote:It will likely to overturned by the Supreme Court, but it's conceivable that they could find both true - the English court decision that prorogation was legal, and the Scottish court decision that the *advice* was unlawful, both upheld.


I've not been able to find an example of the two supreme court's disagreeing, so I'm not sure what the precedent is here but, there doesn't appear to be any precedent to say the UK Supreme court would be likely to disagree.
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Re: Brexit

#9216  Postby ronmcd » Sep 11, 2019 4:43 pm

Sendraks wrote:
ronmcd wrote:It will likely to overturned by the Supreme Court, but it's conceivable that they could find both true - the English court decision that prorogation was legal, and the Scottish court decision that the *advice* was unlawful, both upheld.


I've not been able to find an example of the two supreme court's disagreeing, so I'm not sure what the precedent is here but, there doesn't appear to be any precedent to say the UK Supreme court would be likely to disagree.

But they're not both Supreme Courts in that sense though. The UK Supreme Court is the highest court, they will make the final decision. They are the final court of appeal for both Scottish and English Law. The High Court and Court of Session make up the Supreme Courts of Scotland, but are subject to appeal at the UK Supreme Court, which when hearing Scots Law cases generally is made up of Scots Law Judges as far as I know, but I don't think it is necessarily so.

This is all quite recent, a decade or so? Before that it was Supreme courts of Scotland with final appeals to the Lords, with no other court above it.

I think :?
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Re: Brexit

#9217  Postby Macdoc » Sep 12, 2019 8:44 am

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We are not compelled to believe in biological uniformity in order to affirm human freedom and dignity.
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Re: Brexit

#9218  Postby mattthomas » Sep 12, 2019 11:27 am

ronmcd wrote:The Scottish courts had decided prorogation was legal. The English courts did likewise. The Scottish appeal went to the highest civil court in Scotland, the Court of Session ("founded in 1532, fully 175 years before the Union of the Parliaments brought Scotland and England together in 1707") and they have concluded the advice (as opposed to prorogation) was unlawful.

The English court appeal is to be heard at the Supreme Court, as is the UK Govt appeal. All bundled together, I guess?

The high court never decided that it was legal, they said it wasn't for the court to comment on how government used that power. The Scottish court decided that the court should have a view on it and based on the evidence the advise given to the queen was misleading. So this is gonna go one of three ways

1 - The supreme court will agree with the high court that they have no place to comment
2 - They agree with the Scottish court that they do have a place and that they agree with their findings
3 - They agree with the Scottish court that they do have a place and that they disagree with their findings
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Re: Brexit

#9219  Postby mrjonno » Sep 12, 2019 12:13 pm

Struggle to see where its in the remit of courts to 'defend democracy' or even to do the right thing. It's job is to merely uphold the law.

Hope I'm wrong, as the country needs parliament back but its not the courts job to ensure the country gets what it needs
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Re: Brexit

#9220  Postby Spearthrower » Sep 12, 2019 1:16 pm

mrjonno wrote:Struggle to see where its in the remit of courts to 'defend democracy' or even to do the right thing. It's job is to merely uphold the law.


You might want to run through that sentence again. Where does the executive derive its legitimacy in the UK?
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