Brexit

The talks and negotiations.

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Re: Brexit

#8161  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jun 15, 2019 8:08 am

Bring in the 30 tonner of salt. Even Merkel herself plus so many officials have said there will be no extension. It sounds like another right wing ploy for Johnson.
The EU does not want a Switzerland situation with the UK. They have repeated that time and time again.

It used to be called the dirty tricks department but now it is fake news.
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Re: Brexit

#8162  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jun 15, 2019 8:32 am

I guess Boris Johnsons' likely election serves as a reminder that the election of Trump was not a random event.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Brexit

#8163  Postby Thommo » Jun 15, 2019 8:34 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:Even Merkel herself plus so many officials have said there will be no extension.


Where is that then?
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Re: Brexit

#8164  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jun 15, 2019 9:50 am

Brexit deal: What Germany wants, what Theresa May can get

UK Prime Minister Theresa May has until October 31 to try and save the Brexit deal. DW outlines where Germany stands on the issue. It has a vested interest in avoiding a hard Brexit but an even bigger one in a strong EU.

The EU takes precedence

Together with France, Germany is the main proponent and driving force of the European Union. Thus the primary principle in Berlin's Brexit policy has been to prioritize the welfare of the bloc. The EU, and its chief negotiator Michel Barnier, speaks on behalf of all member states collectively. Individual European nations have thus far forgone bilateral talks with the United Kingdom.

With the EU holding remarkably solid on the issue, it was always very unlikely that May would be able to extract any concessions from Chancellor Angela Merkel. After a December meeting, the German leader said that negotiations "would not be reopened," and this line has continued into 2019.

Germany's position is identical to the EU's in that the deal agreed upon in November 2018 is the only one possible and should be implemented. An extension granted to May giving her until October 31 to get the deal ratified by the British Parliament has not changed the EU's view that the existing deal is the final offer.


Quite clear. "would not be reopened,"
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Re: Brexit

#8165  Postby Fallible » Jun 15, 2019 11:02 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:I guess Boris Johnsons' likely election serves as a reminder that the election of Trump was not a random event.


Not quite. He's not going to be elected by the general public, only fellow Tories.
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Re: Brexit

#8166  Postby Thommo » Jun 15, 2019 11:17 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:Brexit deal: What Germany wants, what Theresa May can get

UK Prime Minister Theresa May has until October 31 to try and save the Brexit deal. DW outlines where Germany stands on the issue. It has a vested interest in avoiding a hard Brexit but an even bigger one in a strong EU.

The EU takes precedence

Together with France, Germany is the main proponent and driving force of the European Union. Thus the primary principle in Berlin's Brexit policy has been to prioritize the welfare of the bloc. The EU, and its chief negotiator Michel Barnier, speaks on behalf of all member states collectively. Individual European nations have thus far forgone bilateral talks with the United Kingdom.

With the EU holding remarkably solid on the issue, it was always very unlikely that May would be able to extract any concessions from Chancellor Angela Merkel. After a December meeting, the German leader said that negotiations "would not be reopened," and this line has continued into 2019.

Germany's position is identical to the EU's in that the deal agreed upon in November 2018 is the only one possible and should be implemented. An extension granted to May giving her until October 31 to get the deal ratified by the British Parliament has not changed the EU's view that the existing deal is the final offer.


Quite clear. "would not be reopened,"


Yes, it is clear. It does not say no extension, it says no renegotiation. Indeed this has been Merkel's line since December (as the article states explicitly), since when there have been two extensions and no renegotiations.

These are two different things.
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Re: Brexit

#8167  Postby mrjonno » Jun 15, 2019 12:33 pm

Fallible wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:I guess Boris Johnsons' likely election serves as a reminder that the election of Trump was not a random event.


Not quite. He's not going to be elected by the general public, only fellow Tories.


Yeah but do you really think the public is any more interested in polices, ethics, truth, corruption more than they are interested in someone haircut.

The evidence suggests not, the truth is whatever your Facebook feed says it is, the truth is whatever the person you want to do down the pub with says it is, the truth is whoever the leader of your tribe wants it to be
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Re: Brexit

#8168  Postby Fallible » Jun 15, 2019 4:54 pm

Thanks, none of this is relevant to what I said. My point was that the two events are not the same. I hate it when people ask 'do you really think..?' when nothing that's been said suggests the person thinks anything of the kind. Of course, this is further exacerbated by your wonderful public school acquired skills in the English language.
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Re: Brexit

#8169  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jun 15, 2019 7:49 pm

Fallible wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:I guess Boris Johnsons' likely election serves as a reminder that the election of Trump was not a random event.


Not quite. He's not going to be elected by the general public, only fellow Tories.

Sure, but it's still an election by, supposedly intelligent people, voting in a catastrophic disaster for their country.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Brexit

#8170  Postby ronmcd » Jun 15, 2019 10:38 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:Brexit deal: What Germany wants, what Theresa May can get

UK Prime Minister Theresa May has until October 31 to try and save the Brexit deal. DW outlines where Germany stands on the issue. It has a vested interest in avoiding a hard Brexit but an even bigger one in a strong EU.

The EU takes precedence

Together with France, Germany is the main proponent and driving force of the European Union. Thus the primary principle in Berlin's Brexit policy has been to prioritize the welfare of the bloc. The EU, and its chief negotiator Michel Barnier, speaks on behalf of all member states collectively. Individual European nations have thus far forgone bilateral talks with the United Kingdom.

With the EU holding remarkably solid on the issue, it was always very unlikely that May would be able to extract any concessions from Chancellor Angela Merkel. After a December meeting, the German leader said that negotiations "would not be reopened," and this line has continued into 2019.

Germany's position is identical to the EU's in that the deal agreed upon in November 2018 is the only one possible and should be implemented. An extension granted to May giving her until October 31 to get the deal ratified by the British Parliament has not changed the EU's view that the existing deal is the final offer.


Quite clear. "would not be reopened,"

I thought we'd all had this discussion. Reopening the deal isn't the same as an extension.
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Re: Brexit

#8171  Postby ronmcd » Jun 15, 2019 10:40 pm

Ignore Boris Johnson’s bluster about Brexit. He wants a general election

Johnson surely knows that a no-deal exit will be painful, but probably believes that the experts’ forecasts are exaggerated. Besides, he no doubt reasons, he will have five years as prime minister to turn things around and he has a friend in the White House to help him. Yet in truth, there is no such thing as “no deal”. There is an orderly path or a chaotic route to arrive at the same destination: the negotiated withdrawal agreement.

If the UK exits without a deal at the end of October, then a pre-condition of any trade talks will be acquiescence to the Irish backstop and settlement of the financial obligations of our nearly half-a-century of membership. How many weeks of self-inflicted chaos could any government endure before coming to terms with reality? If there is one clear lesson from the past three years, it is that it is unwise to deduce method from madness. Sometimes idiocy is all that there is.
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Re: Brexit

#8172  Postby Beatsong » Jun 15, 2019 11:27 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Fallible wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:I guess Boris Johnsons' likely election serves as a reminder that the election of Trump was not a random event.


Not quite. He's not going to be elected by the general public, only fellow Tories.

Sure, but it's still an election by, supposedly intelligent people, voting in a catastrophic disaster for their country.


Who supposes that Conservative party members are intelligent people???
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Re: Brexit

#8173  Postby Matt_B » Jun 16, 2019 3:08 am

I'd be surprised if the Tory party membership is any more or less intelligent than the public as a whole. They will, however, contain a lot of easily manipulated reactionaries who will base their decisions primarily upon information presented to them by a relatively small cross-section of the media.

Unless someone in that area can present a compelling reason not to vote for Johnson, he's in.
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Re: Brexit

#8174  Postby tuco » Jun 16, 2019 6:38 am

Intelligence, as in IQ, has little to do with it.
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Re: Brexit

#8175  Postby Alan B » Jun 16, 2019 2:05 pm

When is the EU going to start using the ATAD to weed-out tax avoiding/evading Tories (as well as some Labour ones)? Are they constrained because of Brexit?
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Re: Brexit

#8176  Postby zerne » Jun 17, 2019 1:18 pm

So we have the prospect of an unelected Prime Minister of a minority Conservative Government determined to do Brexit come what may, in October, what May couldn't do in March.

C4 Conservative leadership debate (minus Boris Johnson)



An unlikeable lot. Raab looks like a Trump wannabe red tie and all. Rory Stewart gets best quote for "Believe in the bin!". Gove is simply delusional.
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Re: Brexit

#8177  Postby Spearthrower » Jun 17, 2019 1:21 pm

As big a numpty Johnson is, I can't look at Gove without hating each and every atom that constitutes his being.
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Re: Brexit

#8178  Postby zerne » Jun 17, 2019 2:45 pm

He's a gaping pustule of naked ambition.

I think it says a lot that Boris's first act as prospective leader is to run away.
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Re: Brexit

#8179  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jun 17, 2019 3:42 pm

ronmcd wrote:I thought we'd all had this discussion. Reopening the deal isn't the same as an extension.


When? An extension is part of the agreement. If not what is it then? You are extending the agreement so how is it not part?
Merkel has said no extension.
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Re: Brexit

#8180  Postby ronmcd » Jun 17, 2019 4:46 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
ronmcd wrote:I thought we'd all had this discussion. Reopening the deal isn't the same as an extension.


When? An extension is part of the agreement. If not what is it then? You are extending the agreement so how is it not part?
Merkel has said no extension.

She may well have said no further extensions, I've no idea, but the point is an extension isn't a reopening of the deal. It wasn't reopened when it was extended the last ..... fuck I cant even remember now how many times it was extended.
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