The_Piper wrote:

Agi Hammerthief wrote:

The_Piper wrote:
The NRA is prohibiting guns at the conference. …

guns are not allowed in schools either, just a matter of time till someone notices.

My post had nothing to do with guns in schools. Some people are authorized to carry guns in schools, just not the students and people illegally entering schools to murder them. More than two or three politicians have suggested that teachers be armed and trained. Which is stupid, but such is politics in this country.
The NRA celebrate gun culture, and they presumably are having a conference to promote that. I'd like to think that they are going to denounce their prior positions at this conference, but they're way too far gone to be sensible now. That they aren't allowing guns at a conference to celebrate gun culture, is hypocrisy. I may be wrong about them prohibiting guns altogether, but it will be at least for Trump and Abbot's speeches. I'm guessing it will be for the entire conference though.

not my point, try a different perspective, I won’t spell it out for legal reasons.

The_Piper wrote:...a conference to celebrate gun culture...

There's the problem right there.

Firearms are tools for:

1.) Killing animals. Anything other than trophy hunting I'd say most people wouldn't have a huge problem with so long as it's humane (unless they are vegetarians or vegans).

2.) Shooting non-living targets for sport. Again, I suspect most wouldn't have a problem with this.

3.) Killing people. Modern societies reserve this role for members of the military and law enforcement in a legally controlled manner.

For any other purpose they're, quite literally, being used as a fetish:

A fetish (derived from the French fétiche, which comes from the Portuguese feitiço, and this in turn from Latin facticius, "artificial" and facere, "to make") is an object believed to have supernatural powers, or in particular, a human-made object that has power over others. Essentially, fetishism is the attribution of inherent value, or powers, to an object.

I'd characterise the activities of the NRA and the promotion of "gun culture" as gun fetishism at a religious level - and with many of the same problems, especially when it comes to deprogramming adherents. Rational discourse with them, as with other religions, is practically impossible.

Listening to Cruz and his ilk I very much suspect their ideal method for securing children's safety at school is to have a black-clad Son of Gilead with tactical armour and assault rifle in every classroom (as an added bonus they can check that evil things like critical race theory and tolerance for others isn't being taught).

The most heinous thing the fetishists do is obfuscate where people want to get to in relation to gun ownership for sport vs. public safety by constantly blathering about "freedom" and "the constitution" whilst refusing to talk about public safety unless it means "MOAR GUNZ".

Unless there's a rational discussion on where people want to get to on public safety, and from that the formulation of a strategy to get there, then you're stuck with the status quo - which means that thousands of dead children annually are just the price of "liberty".

There seems to be some reports some cops went into the school and grabbed their own kids.

Also that they held back parents even tackling and pepper spraying one.

And that they said they didn't approach the gunman for fear of getting shot.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 4557238708

Tortured_Genius wrote:

The_Piper wrote:...a conference to celebrate gun culture...

There's the problem right there.

Firearms are tools for:

1.) Killing animals. Anything other than trophy hunting I'd say most people wouldn't have a huge problem with so long as it's humane (unless they are vegetarians or vegans).

2.) Shooting non-living targets for sport. Again, I suspect most wouldn't have a problem with this.

3.) Killing people. Modern societies reserve this role for members of the military and law enforcement in a legally controlled manner.

For any other purpose they're, quite literally, being used as a fetish:

A fetish (derived from the French fétiche, which comes from the Portuguese feitiço, and this in turn from Latin facticius, "artificial" and facere, "to make") is an object believed to have supernatural powers, or in particular, a human-made object that has power over others. Essentially, fetishism is the attribution of inherent value, or powers, to an object.

I'd characterise the activities of the NRA and the promotion of "gun culture" as gun fetishism at a religious level - and with many of the same problems, especially when it comes to deprogramming adherents. Rational discourse with them, as with other religions, is practically impossible.

Listening to Cruz and his ilk I very much suspect their ideal method for securing children's safety at school is to have a black-clad Son of Gilead with tactical armour and assault rifle in every classroom (as an added bonus they can check that evil things like critical race theory and tolerance for others isn't being taught).

The most heinous thing the fetishists do is obfuscate where people want to get to in relation to gun ownership for sport vs. public safety by constantly blathering about "freedom" and "the constitution" whilst refusing to talk about public safety unless it means "MOAR GUNZ".

Unless there's a rational discussion on where people want to get to on public safety, and from that the formulation of a strategy to get there, then you're stuck with the status quo - which means that thousands of dead children annually are just the price of "liberty".

By gun culture I mean pretty much exactly what you mean. Gun culture is a phrase in common use by people who view the phenomenon negatively. The word cult is right in it.

Agi Hammerthief wrote:
not my point, try a different perspective, I won’t spell it out for legal reasons.

I'm afraid I don't understand. No biggie, I can let it go.

Gun Cult(ure) - hadn't spotted that.

Just can't get out of my head that death by shooting is now the leading cause of death for under 19's in the USA.

If you just regulated firearm ownership like vehicle ownership is.. ah, fuck it, you're arguing with cultists, logic and reason doesn't work.

I lack the voice to tell these gun toting assholes to drop the crocodile tears:

You chose this. You wanted weapons of war readily available to any eighteen year old asshole, and you have it. This is the result. Stop crying. Your kids are dead now, sacrificed to the right of the fucker who killed them to buy his assault rifle.

You got exactly what you wanted, paid for with your own kids’ lives.

Proud of yourselves?

I would put that on every billboard in Texas if it were in my power.

There are not yet enough dead kids.

How about that ‘merikan exceptionalism now, eh?

The_Metatron wrote:I lack the voice to tell these gun toting assholes to drop the crocodile tears:

You chose this. You wanted weapons of war readily available to any eighteen year old asshole, and you have it. This is the result. Stop crying. Your kids are dead now, sacrificed to the right of the fucker who killed them to buy his assault rifle.

You got exactly what you wanted, paid for with your own kids’ lives.

Proud of yourselves?

I would put that on every billboard in Texas if it were in my power.

There are not yet enough dead kids.

How about that ‘merikan exceptionalism now, eh?

See the absence of empathy I noted before - we see ample examples of people here who you know would just instantly dismiss the message with a "not my kids' lives".

It’s all fun and games, until someone gets their eye poked out. Same fucking thing.

Cowards and their fucking guns.

They are completely insane you know Trump: US should fund safe schools before Ukraine

Mr Trump rejected calls for tightened gun controls, saying decent Americans should be allowed firearms to defend themselves against "evil".

He instead proposed a "top-to-bottom overhaul" of school safety, with fortified single points of entry including metal detectors and at least one armed police officer on every campus. He accused Democrats of stonewalling such security measures.

Single fortified point of entry, metal detectors, armed guards and presumably some kind of perimeter wall to stop entry that way. They are quite literally proposing to turn every school in the country into a prison. It's not too difficult to predict the sort of happy, well-adjusted individuals such educational establishments would produce.

Of course, that's just for the masses using public education, not the home-schooled privately tutored offspring of the elite.

What I find stunning is that they seem to be completely impervious to how utterly insane that is.

But, but, someone in Alaska might need to shoot a bear or moose in the fucking face, you can't take those POOR, INNOCENT people's guns away!!1

Seriously, the things I've heard said in the last few days, and NOT by right-wing American gun nuts like Ted Cruz, just normal people I thought I liked on places like Doctor Who forums, who are excusing their reasons to have lethal, concealed weapons is blowing my mind.

I should be used to it by now, but I'll never get used to it, it shocks me every goddamn time :*(

(And as for single points of entry, that's going to be fantastic when there's a fire, just brilliant )

I know right? Nobody's told them about the fire safety problem yet? Fucking morons. Single point of entry. Clueless, utter morons.

Alan C wrote:Shooter was gunned down this time, seems he didn't happen to be white?

So what are you saying? A member of the Hispanic community who killed members of his community, starting with an attack on his grandmother was killed by members of a largely Hispanic police force because of racism? Or what is that you are trying to say?

Oh well, I guess I have to apologize to Alan C.
He probably means that the Hispanic police force of Uvalde is racist because they only shoot members of their own Hispanic community but not white folks. That makes sense alright.

What happened is the police killed a brown man doing the same thing that white men who were not killed by police have done. But, I think you already knew that, didn’t you?

I sent a nice message of congratulations to the Castle Rock, Colorado police department about the Uvalde shooting.

Thanks to Castle Rock’s pioneering disdain for the public, in which they sought and received a ruling from the Supreme Court* stating that police have no duty whatsoever to protect citizens. None.

Those cowardly pigs who waited in the hallway while a young man was murdering their neighbors’ children will face no legal consequence for their cowardice.

This is how fucking useless pigs are in this country.

Castle Rock PD. The original cowards.

* see The Town of Castle Rock v Gonzales for details.

Well yes, my initial reaction was basically that a brown mass murderer ended up getting shot by cops here while the white mass murderer in Buffalo was not.

The_Metatron wrote:What happened is the police killed a brown man doing the same thing that white men who were not killed by police have done. But, I think you already knew that, didn’t you?

Two things: why comment on things you ( general you) know shit about in the first place?
And secondly: there’s enough racism already. Why are you so keen on inventing even more?

Alan C wrote:Well yes, my initial reaction was basically that a brown mass murderer ended up getting shot by cops here while the white mass murderer in Buffalo was not.

As it turns out, they took their own sweet time to do that. Who knows, maybe they were debating amongst themselves whether shooting that guy would make them racists? We will probably never know.

Regina wrote:

The_Metatron wrote:What happened is the police killed a brown man doing the same thing that white men who were not killed by police have done. But, I think you already knew that, didn’t you?

Two things: why comment on things you ( general you) know shit about in the first place?
And secondly: there’s enough racism already. Why are you so keen on inventing even more?

How close to Uvalde have you ever lived, and for how long? Let’s compare what we do and don’t “know shit about”, shall we?

I invented nothing. Numbers talk, bullshit walks. If you aren’t white in this fucking place, you goddamned better behave around police. Brown lives matter less here.