Call for Action to Prevent Gun Violence in the United States

Regina · **#301** by **Regina** » May 29, 2022 4:35 pm

The_Metatron wrote:
Regina wrote:
The_Metatron wrote:What happened is the police killed a brown man doing the same thing that white men who were not killed by police have done. But, I think you already knew that, didn’t you?

Two things: why comment on things you ( general you) know shit about in the first place?
And secondly: there’s enough racism already. Why are you so keen on inventing even more?

How close to Uvalde have you ever lived, and for how long? Let’s compare what we do and don’t “know shit about”, shall we?

I invented nothing. Numbers talk, bullshit walks. If you aren’t white in this fucking place, you goddamned better behave around police. Brown lives matter less here.

I guess, not killing 21 people counts as „you better behave around police“. Coincidentally, that also happens to be the case where I live.
But let’s be constructive, shall we ? And help those stressed-out cops with a little manual:

white cop shoots white perp: not racist
black cop shoots white perp: not racist
white cop shoots black perp: most definitely racist
black cop shoots black perp: racist, just because

And now it gets tricky: cops of any imaginable skin tone shoot perp who they think is white, but isn‘t really. Oh dear…

And now the easy cases:
male cop of any given skin tone shoots female perp of any given skin tone: sexist, what else?
female cop of any given skin tone shoots female perp of any given skin tone: sexist does not even begin to describe it. I mean, really? Shooting a sister?

Hope that helps.
No need to thank me.

Cito di Pense · **#302** by **Cito di Pense** » May 29, 2022 4:36 pm

The_Metatron wrote:
Regina wrote:
The_Metatron wrote:What happened is the police killed a brown man doing the same thing that white men who were not killed by police have done. But, I think you already knew that, didn’t you?

Two things: why comment on things you ( general you) know shit about in the first place?
And secondly: there’s enough racism already. Why are you so keen on inventing even more?

How close to Uvalde have you ever lived, and for how long? Let’s compare what we do and don’t “know shit about”, shall we?

I invented nothing. Numbers talk, bullshit walks. If you aren’t white in this fucking place, you goddamned better behave around police. Brown lives matter less here.

Did the shooter in Uvalde signal that he was surrendering? Then it becomes a problem that he was shot by law enforcement personnel. If that's not the case, then I think it's entirely irrelevant whether somebody who had already shot and killed nearly two dozen people was "behaving himself appropriately" in the presence of police officers.

If your point is that the cop's ethnicity doesn't matter when the perpetrator is brown or black, and that we're now discussing endemic racism in police forces, I'll still consider it, but not in a thread devoted to proliferating gun violence perpetrated by people who are not law enforcement officers. If it ever comes out the LEOs on the scene in Uvalde dithered a little too long because they were considering the ethnicity of the perp, that will be interesting to me in a different way.

Seabass · **#303** by **Seabass** » May 29, 2022 6:24 pm

Regina wrote:
The_Metatron wrote:
Regina wrote:
The_Metatron wrote:What happened is the police killed a brown man doing the same thing that white men who were not killed by police have done. But, I think you already knew that, didn’t you?

Two things: why comment on things you ( general you) know shit about in the first place?
And secondly: there’s enough racism already. Why are you so keen on inventing even more?

How close to Uvalde have you ever lived, and for how long? Let’s compare what we do and don’t “know shit about”, shall we?

I invented nothing. Numbers talk, bullshit walks. If you aren’t white in this fucking place, you goddamned better behave around police. Brown lives matter less here.

I guess, not killing 21 people counts as „you better behave around police“. Coincidentally, that also happens to be the case where I live.
But let’s be constructive, shall we ? And help those stressed-out cops with a little manual:

white cop shoots white perp: not racist
black cop shoots white perp: not racist
white cop shoots black perp: most definitely racist
black cop shoots black perp: racist, just because

And now it gets tricky: cops of any imaginable skin tone shoot perp who they think is white, but isn‘t really. Oh dear…

And now the easy cases:
male cop of any given skin tone shoots female perp of any given skin tone: sexist, what else?
female cop of any given skin tone shoots female perp of any given skin tone: sexist does not even begin to describe it. I mean, really? Shooting a sister?

Hope that helps.
No need to thank me.

These simplistic hypotheticals are meaningless. We see the racism in the statistics:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/opinions/systemic-racism-police-evidence-criminal-justice-system/

And frankly, the pattern isn't that hard to see if you watch the news in the US.

Regina · **#304** by **Regina** » May 29, 2022 6:43 pm

Really? Is it really so difficult to get your head around what Cito and I are saying?
That there is a difference between cops shooting or otherwise attacking non-white folks for minor transgressions or no transgressions at all and shooting somebody who has just slaughtered 21 people?

Do you think that the victims‘ relatives feel sorry for the killer because he was Hispanic and therefore apparently per definitionem a victim of racism and worry about the motives of the officers who took him down? Really? What upsets them is that it took so long.

Nobody doubts your statistics. You and the Metatron are missing the point by at least a country mile.

The_Metatron · **#305** by **The_Metatron** » May 29, 2022 7:10 pm

Like I said, numbers talk, bullshit walks.

I haven’t seen a metric exist that doesn’t show brown people getting the shortest end of American justice, in excess of their numbers in the population. Have you?

Miss the point, my ass.

Cito di Pense · **#306** by **Cito di Pense** » May 29, 2022 7:39 pm

The_Metatron wrote:Like I said, numbers talk, bullshit walks.

I haven’t seen a metric exist that doesn’t show brown people getting the shortest end of American justice, in excess of their numbers in the population. Have you?

Miss the point, my ass.

The metric isn't in dispute. The brown person who was gunned down in Uvalde had murdered 21 human beings, and nobody has said yet that he was gunned down in the act of surrendering to LEOs. This thread didn't start out as being about endemic racism in the US. If the fact that a vicious mass murderer was shot by police is a pretext for protesting racism in policing, said protest is divorced from context and hence means nothing to me, and you might as well use the latest film review to launch that protest.

It could be there's a salvo waiting in the wings that every mass murdering person of color is doing so because he or she has been warped by the evil racist system, whereas the white supremacist mass murderer has not. Anything's possible, I guess. Those who insist on dividing the sheep from the goats are binarists who should just go the fuck back to church.

Regina · **#307** by **Regina** » May 29, 2022 7:58 pm

The_Metatron wrote:Like I said, numbers talk, bullshit walks.

I haven’t seen a metric exist that doesn’t show brown people getting the shortest end of American justice, in excess of their numbers in the population. Have you?

Miss the point, my ass.

It seems my command of the English language is not what I thought it was.
Again, nobody doubts your „metric“.
It‘s just irrelevant here, because we are not talking about situations where people are shot by cops for some minor or imagined infraction.

Let me put it in the simplest of terms: if I was in a situation like the victims of the Uvalde shooting, I wouldn’t give a fuck about the motives of the cop who took down the shooter. You might ask why that is. Well, I simply could not afford to wait for a cop to come along who fits my own moral standards.
Call me selfish, call me immoral, but I prefer it to survive. Your preferences might vary.

The_Metatron · **#308** by **The_Metatron** » May 29, 2022 10:50 pm

Here you are, confusing your own feelings with how state actors are expected to behave. I would guess you even believe our police actually have an obligation or duty to protect citizens from harm. They certainly have a duty to not cause harm.

Regardless, the cops screwed the pooch and people died as a result.

The only information we have is coming from the police. The same ones who have lied to us multiple times already about this event. Pardon fucking me if I take their claim that the shooter wasn’t surrendering with a block of salt. How much clearer must it be that these police will lie to us whenever it suits their needs? How the fuck are we to know when they are lying? For fuck sakes, they are allowed by law to lie to citizens. What they say has no truth value.

Now, add to that steaming pile of blue shit the fact that any pimply faced 18 year old kid who got picked on in school can go buy a weapon of war here and settle that shit for real! Like the asshole in Uvalde did.

I’ve seen this gun culture growing from within my whole life. For the longest time, I was a part of it. Foment a culture that is based on fear, then add guns. What could go wrong?

Alan C · **#309** by **Alan C** » May 30, 2022 8:12 am

My post could have done with less assumption, my impulse was to assume that the cops were white. I didn't consider that this might not be the case for the area in question and so not a binary situation.

There do seem to be a number of aspects of this most recent event, the time to respond for one thing.

Spearthrower · **#310** by **Spearthrower** » May 30, 2022 9:12 am

Alan C wrote:My post could have done with less assumption, my impulse was to assume that the cops were white. I didn't consider that this might not be the case for the area in question and so not a binary situation.

I neither disagree with your original comment, nor the follow-ups made by others, but this above also makes an assumption that it's white cops who gun down black and brown citizens. It's nowhere near that simple, and part of understanding why it's institutional racism rather than necessarily personal racism on the part of any given police officer. Policing isn't one thing, not even in one state, not even in one city. Depending on the area, police protocol may be more or less confrontational, the police may be armed only with standard cop gear, or have military grade armaments, may have policies of de-escalation or zero tolerance (and a whole bunch of other pertinent factors, but let's just say 'etc.')... and overwhelmingly, the areas primarily inhabited by less affluent people - often ethnic minorities ghettoized by decades of economic and legislative inequality - are those areas where the police are more confrontational, equipped more appropriately for urban warfare than policing, and have a proactive stance on use of force. The police officers themselves can wear any skin colour and be a part of any of this range of possibilities. That's the problem with institutional biases, whether it's race or other denominators, the structure induces behaviors which favour a particular group and specifically co-opts members of non-favoured groups to participate in maintaining that order even to their own detriment.

Tortured_Genius · **#311** by **Tortured_Genius** » Jun 02, 2022 10:39 pm

So routine now it's hardly worth posting - Oklahoma hospital shooting: Four dead after gunman targets doctor (BBC)

Obviously all medics need to be armed and all hospitals should have a single point of entry with an armed guard. The same as all schools, supermarkets, government buildings, libraries, department stores and all other buildings. Shit, you better do the same thing with your own home too.

The architecture of US cities could well get somewhat interesting. Welcome to Bunkerbox City.

Macdoc · **#312** by **Macdoc** » Jun 03, 2022 3:45 am

and mandatory weekly lie detector tests for all

Spearthrower · **#313** by **Spearthrower** » Jun 12, 2022 4:20 pm

I want freedom from getting shot

Tortured_Genius · **#314** by **Tortured_Genius** » Jun 18, 2022 10:40 am

I'm looking at this and thinking "are they bullet-proof?"

Amazon to begin drone deliveries in Lockeford, California this year (BBC)

Seriously - I'm wondering how long these will last over rural areas. (Potential "why we can't have nice things" instance)

(Not strictly a gun related problem perhaps, but a more likely scenario in the USA. I'm writing this in a city where a half-million £ public e-bike rental scheme had to be scrapped after 3 months due to half a dozen kids armed with tubes of superglue. It's amazing how few fuckwits are required to degrade the quality of everyone else's lives.)

Macdoc · **#315** by **Macdoc** » Jun 20, 2022 4:55 am

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-20/ ... /101166626 <https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-20/miami-guns-buyback-scheme/101166626>
As Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy calls on the West for more weapons, one US city has answered the call in an unexpected way.

Dozens of residents from the city of Miami, Florida lined up outside City Hall on Saturday, holding their guns.

They will be donated to Ukraine through a gun buyback program called Guns 4 Ukraine, run by the local city council.

In exchange, residents received a gift card valued at up to $150, depending on the type of gun.

The program in total collected 69 guns in four hours, with firearms ranging from AK-47 style assault rifles to fully automatic AR-15s to homemade 3D-printed plastic guns.

Tortured_Genius · **#316** by **Tortured_Genius** » Jun 23, 2022 3:18 pm

US Supreme Court reverses New York law limit gun rights(BBC)

Justice Clarence Thomas, writing for the six-justice conservative majority on the court, held that Americans have a right to carry "commonly used" firearms for personal defence.

I'm guessing that would include the carrying of AR-15's since these are "commonly used" in mass shootings.

Seabass · **#317** by **Seabass** » Jun 23, 2022 8:38 pm

Brass knuckles, nunchucks, and lawn darts are illegal.

felltoearth · **#318** by **felltoearth** » Jun 23, 2022 9:00 pm

Just got back from Vancouver, WA to visit the SO’s family there. They are gun enthusiasts.

We got a chance to learn some gun safety.

SO firing an AR15 in the one image.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Seabass · **#319** by **Seabass** » Jul 01, 2022 9:48 pm

https://twitter.com/TexasTribune/status/1542897094159220737

The_Metatron · **#320** by **The_Metatron** » Jul 02, 2022 2:17 am

felltoearth wrote:Just got back from Vancouver, WA to visit the SO’s family there. They are gun enthusiasts.

We got a chance to learn some gun safety.

SO firing an AR15 in the one image.

[Reveal] Spoiler: photos

I think it’s a useful skill to be able to handle one of these things safely. How to get that skill without owning the things is problematic.

And, some of the most enjoyable time I’ve spent used to involve guns in some fashion. My world ran out of reasons to need to kill. My guns had become an actual liability, so I got rid of them.

But, they sure are fun toys!

I replaced my center fire and rim fire rifles with a .177 target air rifle, so I can still poke holes in tiny targets ten meters away with it. Or shoot the occasional bird feeder (with glass sides) raiding rat in the face without shooting the bird feeder. I was proud of that shot. To hell with the dead rat.

Death from afar. To be fair, not that far. Or deadly. But, really, really accurate.

Call for Action to Prevent Gun Violence in the United States

Re: Call for Action to Prevent Gun Violence in the United States

Re: Call for Action to Prevent Gun Violence in the United States

Re: Call for Action to Prevent Gun Violence in the United States

Re: Call for Action to Prevent Gun Violence in the United States

Re: Call for Action to Prevent Gun Violence in the United States

Re: Call for Action to Prevent Gun Violence in the United States

Re: Call for Action to Prevent Gun Violence in the United States

Re: Call for Action to Prevent Gun Violence in the United States

Re: Call for Action to Prevent Gun Violence in the United States

Re: Call for Action to Prevent Gun Violence in the United States

Re: Call for Action to Prevent Gun Violence in the United States

Re: Call for Action to Prevent Gun Violence in the United States

Re: Call for Action to Prevent Gun Violence in the United States

Re: Call for Action to Prevent Gun Violence in the United States

Re: Call for Action to Prevent Gun Violence in the United States

Re: Call for Action to Prevent Gun Violence in the United States

Re: Call for Action to Prevent Gun Violence in the United States

Re: Call for Action to Prevent Gun Violence in the United States

Re: Call for Action to Prevent Gun Violence in the United States

Re: Call for Action to Prevent Gun Violence in the United States

Who is online