Child death probed after Italian parents rely on homeopathy

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Child death probed after Italian parents rely on homeopathy

#1  Postby DoctorE » Oct 22, 2011 11:21 am

ROME (AFP) - An Italian couple are under investigation for the manslaughter of their sick three-year-old son who died after being treated at home with exclusively homeopathic medicine, media reports said on Saturday.

Luca Monsellato was reportedly suffering from bronchial pneumonia, stomach pain and hair loss but was treated by his father Marcello, an orthopaedic and homeopathy expert in Ferrara in northern Italy, with homeopathic medicine.

He was rushed to a hospital on Thursday morning after the fennel tea his mother Giovanna gave him failed to ease his pain and died shortly afterwards.

Investigating magistrate Alberto Santacatterina accused the parents of 'having omitted to give their child specialist care even though faced with lasting, serious and worrying' symptoms, according to the Repubblica newspaper

Source: http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNew ... 26129.html
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Re: Child death probed after Italian parents rely on homeopa

#2  Postby campermon » Oct 22, 2011 11:22 am

Sadly, another one for the list.

http://whatstheharm.net/homeopathy.html
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Re: Child death probed after Italian parents rely on homeopa

#3  Postby Wiðercora » Oct 22, 2011 11:28 am

I don't understand how anyone can think homeoepathy works. It collapses under even the most basic of scrutiny.
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Re: Child death probed after Italian parents rely on homeopa

#4  Postby Mazille » Oct 22, 2011 11:28 am

:nono:
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Re: Child death probed after Italian parents rely on homeopa

#5  Postby Loren Michael » Oct 22, 2011 11:40 am

Wiðercora wrote:I don't understand how anyone can think homeoepathy works. It collapses under even the most basic of scrutiny.


The placebo effect is real?
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Re: Child death probed after Italian parents rely on homeopa

#6  Postby campermon » Oct 22, 2011 12:00 pm

Loren Michael wrote:
Wiðercora wrote:I don't understand how anyone can think homeoepathy works. It collapses under even the most basic of scrutiny.


The placebo effect is real?


I can't quite buy that.

A rational person would recognize that if something is not working then they'd have to try something else.

What we see in all these cases where kids have died is an absolute faith in the homeopathic treatment despite the lack of any evidence to show that it is improving the condition.
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Re: Child death probed after Italian parents rely on homeopa

#7  Postby Shrunk » Oct 22, 2011 12:01 pm

Wiðercora wrote:I don't understand how anyone can think homeoepathy works. It collapses under even the most basic of scrutiny.


Well, no, it takes fairly careful and informed scrutiny to realize it's ineffective. As Loren Micheal suggests, the placebo effect being what it is, people could quite easily believe they have benefited from homeopathic treatment and continue to use it. It requires a degree of familiarity with the scientific basis for determining efficacy to realize that homeopathy is just a placebo. And in a perfect world homeopathic practitioners would possess this knowledge. But they obviously don't.

The article says the father is an "orthopaedic expert". That would mean he is a surgeon. I suspect that's an error.
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Re: Child death probed after Italian parents rely on homeopa

#8  Postby Shrunk » Oct 22, 2011 12:05 pm

campermon wrote:
Loren Michael wrote:
Wiðercora wrote:I don't understand how anyone can think homeoepathy works. It collapses under even the most basic of scrutiny.


The placebo effect is real?


I can't quite buy that.

A rational person would recognize that if something is not working then they'd have to try something else.

What we see in all these cases where kids have died is an absolute faith in the homeopathic treatment despite the lack of any evidence to show that it is improving the condition.


Well that's true. You can't possibly be so ignorant as to not realize there are other conventional treatment alternatives available besides homeopathy. And if your own kid is fading away before your eyes, I can't fathom the dogmatic commitment to homeopathy that would cause a parent to sacrifice their child's life to it. But it has happened before:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... order.html
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Re: Child death probed after Italian parents rely on homeopa

#9  Postby Wiðercora » Oct 22, 2011 12:07 pm

Placebo effect aside, perhaps I was scrutinising it wrongly, but the idea that like cures like and if you dilute something it makes it stronger just seems nuts to me.

Someone's going to come by now and tell me that by diluting X it works as a medicine, but by not it's a poison.
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Re: Child death probed after Italian parents rely on homeopa

#10  Postby campermon » Oct 22, 2011 12:15 pm

Wiðercora wrote:Placebo effect aside, perhaps I was scrutinising it wrongly, but the idea that like cures like and if you dilute something it makes it stronger just seems nuts to me.

Someone's going to come by now and tell me that by diluting X it works as a medicine, but by not it's a poison.


:thumbup:

Aye, it is nuts!

The problem in these cases is the fact that the parents seem to be blind to the fact that a particular treatment is not working and then take steps to seek alternatives.

I have faith in 'conventional' treatments (i.e. ones that are scientifically shown to be effective), but if one of my kids was ill and receiving such a treatment and it didn't appear to be working, I'd seek out other evidenced based alternatives. What does my head in is the fact that the parents in these cases appear to not see the evidence in front of their own eyes i.e. the kid getting more ill.
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Re: Child death probed after Italian parents rely on homeopa

#11  Postby Shrunk » Oct 22, 2011 1:02 pm

campermon wrote:Aye, it is nuts!

The problem in these cases is the fact that the parents seem to be blind to the fact that a particular treatment is not working and then take steps to seek alternatives.

I have faith in 'conventional' treatments (i.e. ones that are scientifically shown to be effective), but if one of my kids was ill and receiving such a treatment and it didn't appear to be working, I'd seek out other evidenced based alternatives. What does my head in is the fact that the parents in these cases appear to not see the evidence in front of their own eyes i.e. the kid getting more ill.



But if evidence mattered to these people, they wouldn't be homeopaths in the first place. (It's interesting that in the two fatal cases mentioned in this thread, the parents were not just users of homeopathy, but actually homeopaths themselves. It's not that surprising, though, since that requires a blind ideological commitment to the efficacy of homeopathy. Once you're used to ignoring concrete evidence, I guess it becomes a habit.)

I wonder how long it'll take Nancy Malik to show up here....
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Re: Child death probed after Italian parents rely on homeopa

#12  Postby byofrcs » Oct 22, 2011 1:40 pm

Bit of a con to call it being treated with "medicine" - it was at best water. Other news reports say kid was 4 years old.
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Re: Child death probed after Italian parents rely on homeopa

#13  Postby campermon » Oct 22, 2011 2:06 pm

Shrunk wrote:

I wonder how long it'll take Nancy Malik to show up here....


:lol:

Is she still around?
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Re: Child death probed after Italian parents rely on homeopa

#14  Postby Weaver » Oct 22, 2011 2:16 pm

She'll be here - someone mentioned her name. :nono:
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Re: Child death probed after Italian parents rely on homeopa

#15  Postby campermon » Oct 22, 2011 2:26 pm

Weaver wrote:She'll be here - someone mentioned her name. :nono:


... a bit like the 'candyman'?...

:whine:
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Re: Child death probed after Italian parents rely on homeopa

#16  Postby Scarlett » Oct 22, 2011 4:13 pm

Poor little thing! Yet another unnecessary death of a child because if incredibly stupid parents!

This lot need to be made an example of just like the faith healing crowd that repeatedly kill their children :nono:
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Re: Child death probed after Italian parents rely on homeopa

#17  Postby Wiðercora » Oct 22, 2011 4:49 pm

Paula wrote:Poor little thing! Yet another unnecessary death of a child because if incredibly stupid parents!

This lot need to be made an example of just like the faith healing crowd that repeatedly kill their children :nono:


I don't think they meant to let their child die. It's not the parents of whom an example needs to be made, it's the charlatans in the industry who peddle this crap, it's people like Prince whatsisname who lend credibility to the charlatans and it the West as a whole for creating an environment where anyone who speaks out is intolerant and closed-minded and where sceptics are just out to take the fun out of life.
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Re: Child death probed after Italian parents rely on homeopa

#18  Postby byofrcs » Oct 22, 2011 5:23 pm

Wiðercora wrote:
Paula wrote:Poor little thing! Yet another unnecessary death of a child because if incredibly stupid parents!

This lot need to be made an example of just like the faith healing crowd that repeatedly kill their children :nono:


I don't think they meant to let their child die. It's not the parents of whom an example needs to be made, it's the charlatans in the industry who peddle this crap, it's people like Prince whatsisname who lend credibility to the charlatans and it the West as a whole for creating an environment where anyone who speaks out is intolerant and closed-minded and where sceptics are just out to take the fun out of life.


That father at least *is* one of the crap peddlers though as they are a doctor or promoter of some kind in homoeopathy...
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... though I guess we wait to see if the cause was preventable at all by real medicines.
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Re: Child death probed after Italian parents rely on homeopa

#19  Postby Wiðercora » Oct 22, 2011 5:35 pm

Alright, exemplify him. But what I said still stands.
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Re: Child death probed after Italian parents rely on homeopa

#20  Postby Shrunk » Oct 22, 2011 7:31 pm

Wiðercora wrote:I don't think they meant to let their child die. It's not the parents of whom an example needs to be made, it's the charlatans in the industry who peddle this crap, it's people like Prince whatsisname who lend credibility to the charlatans and it the West as a whole for creating an environment where anyone who speaks out is intolerant and closed-minded and where sceptics are just out to take the fun out of life.


In short, everyone who believes scientific literacy should be optional for members of the human species.
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