Dolphins deserve same rights as humans, say scientists

Joe09 · #1 by **Joe09** » Feb 21, 2012 8:35 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-17116882

Dolphins should be treated as non-human "persons", with their rights to life and liberty respected, scientists meeting in Canada have been told.

Experts in philosophy, conservation and animal behaviour want support for a Declaration of Rights for Cetaceans.

They believe dolphins and whales are sufficiently intelligent to justify the same ethical considerations as humans.

Recognising their rights would mean an end to whaling and their captivity, or their use in entertainment.

The move was made at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) in Vancouver, Canada, the world's biggest science conference.

PETA can shove their lawsuit up their own ass, they do more to damage the legitimacy that this article gives to the rights of dolphins, whales and orcas

willhud9 · #2 by **willhud9** » Feb 21, 2012 8:43 pm

Does intelligence = ability to possess rights? :ask:

Not disagreeing, but this is a philosophy of rights question, not so much a science question.

Joe09 · #3 by **Joe09** » Feb 21, 2012 8:47 pm

I believe so, otherwise humans wouldn't have a basis on to have rights either (when you chuck that religious bullshit out anyway)

And thinking about it, since we can't communicate with dolphins, how do we not know they have a dolphin messiah who spreads the good word :lol:

HughMcB · #4 by **HughMcB** » Feb 21, 2012 8:48 pm

Joe09 wrote:
Recognising their rights would mean an end to whaling and their captivity, or their use in entertainment.

Ya because humans with these same rights aren't exploited in anyway. Am I right?! :razz:

z8000783 · #5 by **z8000783** » Feb 21, 2012 8:49 pm

So gay dolphins deserve the right to marriage?

Ridiculous.

John

MacIver · #6 by **MacIver** » Feb 21, 2012 8:50 pm

Joe09 wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-17116882

Dolphins should be treated as non-human "persons", with their rights to life and liberty respected, scientists meeting in Canada have been told.

Experts in philosophy, conservation and animal behaviour want support for a Declaration of Rights for Cetaceans.

They believe dolphins and whales are sufficiently intelligent to justify the same ethical considerations as humans.

Recognising their rights would mean an end to whaling and their captivity, or their use in entertainment.

The move was made at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) in Vancouver, Canada, the world's biggest science conference.

PETA can shove their lawsuit up their own ass, they do more to damage the legitimacy that this article gives to the rights of dolphins, whales and orcas

I completely agree with this. We should also treat apes as "non-human persons" too. Oh, and orcas are dolphins.

willhud9 wrote:Does intelligence = ability to possess rights?

Not disagreeing, but this is a philosophy of rights question, not so much a science question.

There is no easy or definite way to answer that question Will, as rights are not an empirical truth, but something we create. But average intelligence seems to be as good a way to discern who has rights and who doesn't as any imho.

Joe09 · #7 by **Joe09** » Feb 21, 2012 8:51 pm

HughMcB wrote:
Joe09 wrote:
Recognising their rights would mean an end to whaling and their captivity, or their use in entertainment.

Ya because humans with these same rights aren't exploited in anyway. Am I right?!

That is very true, i guess it is a start though.

Joe09 · #8 by **Joe09** » Feb 21, 2012 8:53 pm

MacIver wrote:

I completely agree with this. We should also treat apes as "non-human persons" too. Oh, and orcas are dolphins.

I agree, and thank you for the correction, i knew they weren't whales at least

HughMcB · #9 by **HughMcB** » Feb 21, 2012 8:54 pm

MacIver wrote:I completely agree with this. We should also treat apes as "non-human persons" too.

I completely disagree with this. Just another exercise in speciesism.

Ironically I find animal rights activists to be the worst perpetrators of all i.e. PETA.

HughMcB · **#10** by **HughMcB** » Feb 21, 2012 8:56 pm

Joe09 wrote:
HughMcB wrote:
Joe09 wrote:
Recognising their rights would mean an end to whaling and their captivity, or their use in entertainment.

Ya because humans with these same rights aren't exploited in anyway. Am I right?!

That is very true, i guess it is a start though.

Obviously I was being somewhat facetious. But my point is that those countries that continue to hunt and kill dolphins and whales will give no more of a shit about their status as "persons" as they do now about their status as being a "protected species".

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Joe09 · **#11** by **Joe09** » Feb 21, 2012 8:58 pm

you're such a downer

Joe09 · **#12** by **Joe09** » Feb 21, 2012 8:59 pm

HughMcB wrote:
MacIver wrote:I completely agree with this. We should also treat apes as "non-human persons" too.

I completely disagree with this. Just another exercise in speciesism.

Ironically I find animal rights activists to be the worst perpetrators of all i.e. PETA.

you realise any remotely intelligent person who has done a little research knows that PETA are scum and actually do more harm to animals and so you cannot equate all animal rights activists to be scum?

HughMcB · **#13** by **HughMcB** » Feb 21, 2012 9:04 pm

Go have a look at the Debunking PETA thread and tell me that again.

j.mills · **#14** by **j.mills** » Feb 21, 2012 9:09 pm

I'm so not getting into :this:

But wait. Orcas aren't whales? :scratch:

MacIver · **#15** by **MacIver** » Feb 21, 2012 9:09 pm

HughMcB wrote:
MacIver wrote:I completely agree with this. We should also treat apes as "non-human persons" too.

I completely disagree with this. Just another exercise in speciesism.

Ironically I find animal rights activists to be the worst perpetrators of all i.e. PETA.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this Hugh. I can never tell when you're joking... :shifty:

And for the record, I don't think of myself as an animal rights activist. I eat meat and I support (justifiable) animal testing. But I also think that the fact we treat mentally handicapped people who are dumber than bottle-nosed dolphins or orang-utans significantly different wrong. Why? Just because we share more DNA with them?

But my point is that those countries that continue to hunt and kill dolphins and whales will give no more of a shit about their status as "persons" as they do now about their status as being a "protected species".

To begin with I'd say your probably right. But changing of attitudes is a slow and laborious process. One step at a time, and this is a step in the right direction.

Wiðercora · **#16** by **Wiðercora** » Feb 21, 2012 9:10 pm

Kill all the animals, then there will be none left to abuse.

Problem solved.

MacIver · **#17** by **MacIver** » Feb 21, 2012 9:12 pm

j.mills wrote:But wait. Orcas aren't whales?

Nope. If you look at them their body shapes are much closer to dolphins that other "whales", just on a larger scale. One half of the reason why I despise their more commonly used name "killer whales".

MacIver · **#18** by **MacIver** » Feb 21, 2012 9:12 pm

Wiðercora wrote:Kill all the animals, then there will be none left to abuse.

Problem solved.

Do you include humans in that too? :ask:

Joe09 · **#19** by **Joe09** » Feb 21, 2012 9:13 pm

Wiðercora wrote:Kill all the animals, then there will be none left to abuse.

Problem solved.

might take awhile, humans are notorious for surviving against all odds :shifty:

MoonLit · **#20** by **MoonLit** » Feb 21, 2012 9:15 pm

MacIver wrote:
j.mills wrote:But wait. Orcas aren't whales?

Nope. If you look at them their body shapes are much closer to dolphins that other "whales", just on a larger scale. One half of the reason why I despise their more commonly used name "killer whales".

I thought they got their nickname, "killer whale", because they're known for hunting and eating whales? :eh:

Anyways, not sure how I stand on this issue of extending non-human person rights to a species that is not human. Mmmm..