Extinction Rebellion are on point.

For discussion of politics, and what's going on in the world today.

Moderators: Blip, The_Metatron

Re: Extinction Rebellion are on point.

#101  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 21, 2019 2:31 pm

Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:
They're not impartial.



They don't need to be impartial. That's not a requirement for any aspect of knowledge acquisition.

You might want it from your parents or a judge, but science works best when passionate people are driven to find evidence.
I'm not an atheist; I just don't believe in gods :- that which I don't belong to isn't a group!
Religion: Mass Stockholm Syndrome

Learn Stuff. Stuff good. https://www.coursera.org/
User avatar
Spearthrower
 
Posts: 27415
Age: 44
Male

Country: Thailand
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Extinction Rebellion are on point.

#102  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 21, 2019 2:33 pm

Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:
Well ok I'm sure everything they say sounds convincing, but I do prefer to hear both sides of a story before I make up my mind. I remember in the late 80s people were talking about the amazon rainforest like it was a huge catastrophe spelling the end of the world. Now, not a peep. It's the same with this, no one will be talking about it next year.



How disappointing. I would have thought you'd still be reading the copious amounts of information I linked for you on your request.

But no, you wanted to laud the 100th doctor.


Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:Let's just say I'm highly skeptical. I won't be losing sleep over so called man made climate change.


Let's just say you're in denial - a denial based on refusal to engage honestly with the evidence - and be done with it.
I'm not an atheist; I just don't believe in gods :- that which I don't belong to isn't a group!
Religion: Mass Stockholm Syndrome

Learn Stuff. Stuff good. https://www.coursera.org/
User avatar
Spearthrower
 
Posts: 27415
Age: 44
Male

Country: Thailand
Print view this post

Re: Extinction Rebellion are on point.

#103  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 21, 2019 2:41 pm

Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:...but I do prefer to hear both sides of a story before I make up my mind. I remember in the late 80s people were talking about the amazon rainforest like it was a huge catastrophe spelling the end of the world. Now, not a peep. I


Which is ironic because you clearly aren't hearing 'both sides' to the story, and you seem to think whether you hear something or not defines whether something is actually still being discussed or not.

From this month:

https://rainforests.mongabay.com/amazon ... ction.html


https://wwf.panda.org/our_work/forests/ ... he_amazon/

Today, the Amazon is facing a multitude of threats as a result of unsustainable economic development; 20% of the Amazon biome has already been lost and the trend will worsen if gone unchecked.

Amazon is the biggest deforestation front in the world and interventions are urgently needed to prevent a large-scale, irreversible ecological disaster.

WWF estimates that 27 per cent – more than a quarter – of the Amazon biome will be without trees by 2030 if the current rate of deforestation continues.



https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-46327634

Deforestation of the Amazon rainforest in Brazil has hit its highest rate in a decade, according to official data.

About 7,900 sq km (3,050 sq miles) of the world's largest rainforest was destroyed between August 2017 and July 2018 - an area roughly five times the size of London.



Of course, the question also has to be posed whether you can expect to 'hear' a peep if you wedge your fingers in your ears and shout LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU at the top of your voice.
I'm not an atheist; I just don't believe in gods :- that which I don't belong to isn't a group!
Religion: Mass Stockholm Syndrome

Learn Stuff. Stuff good. https://www.coursera.org/
User avatar
Spearthrower
 
Posts: 27415
Age: 44
Male

Country: Thailand
Print view this post

Re: Extinction Rebellion are on point.

#104  Postby minininja » Apr 21, 2019 9:39 pm

I've just found out about this amazing lawyer, sadly by news of her death, who was working to get ecocide (serious damage or destruction of ecosystems including climate damage) recognised as an atrocity crime at the International Criminal Court, which could then hold to account senior officials in fossil fuel companies or other major polluting corporations or governments. This is a wonderful interview from just a few weeks ago. Her work will be continued by others in her organisation, and you can support it here.

[Disclaimer - if this is comes across like I think I know what I'm talking about, I want to make it clear that I don't. I'm just trying to get my thoughts down]
User avatar
minininja
 
Posts: 1509

United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Extinction Rebellion are on point.

#105  Postby tuco » Apr 24, 2019 9:27 am

Just recently I found out there is a panel on biodiversity: https://www.ipbes.net/

Assessments: https://www.ipbes.net/assessment-reports

It's probably not worth chugging through due to its complexity, however, the latest one will be discussed quite soon:

Introducing IPBES' 2019 Global Assessment Report on Biodiversity and Ecosystem Services
First global biodiversity assessment since 2005

The report will be discussed, finalized and considered for approval at the seventh session of the IPBES Plenary (#IPBES7), 29 April – 4 May 2019.

A detailed 'Summary for Policy Makers' of the report, highlighting key messages, findings and options, is scheduled for public launch at UNESCO world headquarters, Paris, Monday, 6 May 2019, to be webcast live (available at http://www.ipbes.net) at 13:00 CEST (07:00 US EDT/11:00 GMT - check for other times worldwide here: http://bit.ly/2GWDJ3X).


https://www.ipbes.net/news/ipbes-global ... nt-preview

---
I am trying to get some ideas from Assessment Report on Biodiversity and Ecosystem Services for Europe and Central Asia, but its .. hard.
tuco
 
Posts: 15450

Print view this post

Re: Extinction Rebellion are on point.

#106  Postby Animavore » Apr 24, 2019 6:02 pm

Support for Extinction Rebellion in the UK has quadrupled in the past nine days as public concern about the scale of the ecological crisis grows.

Since the wave of protests began more than a week ago, 30,000 new backers or volunteers have offered their support to the environmental activist group. In the same period it has raised almost £200,000 – mostly in donations of between £10 and £50 – reaching a total of £365,000 since January.

The group said the figures showed the public was waking up to the scale of the crisis, adding that pressure was growing on politicians to act...

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... _clipboard
A most evolved electron.
User avatar
Animavore
 
Name: The Scribbler
Posts: 43622
Age: 41
Male

Ireland (ie)
Print view this post

Re: Extinction Rebellion are on point.

#107  Postby tuco » Apr 24, 2019 6:33 pm

Out of curiosity, is it known what kind of policies is the government to enact?

from wiki:

Demands
Extinction Rebellion's website states its aims as:[12][1][13]

"The Government must tell the truth about the climate and wider ecological emergency, reverse inconsistent policies and work alongside the media to communicate with citizens.
The Government must enact legally binding policy measures to reduce carbon emissions to net zero by 2025 and to reduce consumption levels.
A national Citizens' assembly to oversee the changes, as part of creating a democracy fit for purpose."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_Rebellion

---

Truth fine, communicate fine. Now enact .. I would guess this can be done by various measures. Reduce consumption levels, here I insist that we can do it without government enacting. But anyway, do they propose specific policies or is this more of a general awarness call?

---
edit: from the link I posted above:

page 20

10 per cent of the world’s
annual deforestation was the result of consumption by the
then 27 member States of the European Union


page 21

Difference between “biocapacity” (on average 2.9 global hectares per person in
the region) and the ecological footprint of consumption (4.6 global hectares per
person; average deficit 1.7 global hectares per person).


page 28

Global economic growth is the main indirect driver of
greenhouse gas emissions and hence climate change
(well established) {4.7.3}. In contrast to global trends,
primary energy consumption and fossil CO2
emissions
within the region have declined since 1990. Small increases
in GDP growth with simultaneously decreasing energy
production and CO2
emissions from 2011 to 2014 suggest
the decoupling of CO2
emissions from GDP growth (well
established) {4.7.3}.

page 32

For example,
global sustainable development scenarios assume changes
in dietary preferences towards reducing meat consumption,
behavioural changes to save water and energy, and the
implementation of integrated and sustainable land and water
management practices.


However

page 35

Without complementary strategies
for reducing the impacts of consumption and production,
more efficient resource use alone is unlikely to render current
production and consumption patterns sustainable (Target 4
- sustainable consumption and production


---

Who the fuck, among us, deforest 10%? If I find you I am gonna call you a fucking moron and no FUA will save you ;)
tuco
 
Posts: 15450

Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Extinction Rebellion are on point.

#108  Postby Ironclad » Apr 24, 2019 9:53 pm

Policy will never happen unless it's global, there's too much money at stake.
For Van Youngman - see you amongst the stardust, old buddy

"If there was no such thing as science, you'd be right " - Sean Lock

"God ....an inventive destroyer" - Broks
User avatar
Ironclad
RS Donator
 
Name: Nudge-Nudge
Posts: 23429
Age: 51
Male

Country: Wink-Wink
Indonesia (id)
Print view this post

Re: Extinction Rebellion are on point.

#109  Postby tuco » Apr 25, 2019 4:27 am

Page 30,31

Scenario archetypes.
The scenario and modelling studies in the literature {5.2.3,
5.3.3.} were mapped to six existing scenario archetypes {5.2.2;
Box 5.3}, which represent diverse plausible futures for Europe
and Central Asia:
Business-as-usual assumes the continuation of past and
current trends in indirect and direct drivers.
Economic optimism assumes global developments steered
by economic growth, resulting in a strong dominance of
international markets with a small degree of regulation.
Regional competition assumes an increasingly fragmented
world with a growing gap between rich and poor; increasing
problems with crime, violence and terrorism; and strong
trade barriers.
Regional sustainability assumes a shift towards local
and regional decision-making that is strongly influenced
by environmentally aware citizens. A proactive attitude to
environmental management prevails, but poor international
collaboration obstructs coordination to solve global
environmental issues.
Global sustainable development assumes an increasingly
proactive attitude by policymakers and the public
towards environmental issues, a high level of international
cooperation and strong regulation.
Inequality assumes increasing economic, political and social
inequalities with power concentrated in a relatively small
political and business elite who invest in green technology.
Each scenario archetype consists of different assumptions
about future changes in direct and indirect drivers as shown in
Table SPM.3.


followed by

Figure SPM 9 Projected future impacts on biodiversity, nature’s contributions to people and good
quality of life according to six scenario archetypes for Europe and Central Asia up
to 2100 (see Box SPM.3 for details of the scenario archetypes) {2.2.6, 3.5, 5.3.3}.


on page 32
tuco
 
Posts: 15450

Print view this post

Re: Extinction Rebellion are on point.

#110  Postby surreptitious57 » Apr 25, 2019 5:41 am

The I0 per cent figure is for the 27 member states of the European Union
This is approximately 500 million people so a bit more than you imagined
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
surreptitious57
 
Posts: 10113

Print view this post

Re: Extinction Rebellion are on point.

#111  Postby tuco » Apr 25, 2019 8:20 am

Causes of deforestation

Farming, grazing of livestock, mining, and drilling combined account for more than half of all deforestation. Forestry practices, wildfires and, in small part, urbanization account for the rest. In Malaysia and Indonesia, forests are cut down to make way for producing palm oil, which can be found in everything from shampoo to saltines. In the Amazon, cattle ranching and farms—particularly soy plantations—are key culprits.

Logging operations, which provide the world’s wood and paper products, also fell countless trees each year. Loggers, some of them acting illegally, also build roads to access more and more remote forests—which leads to further deforestation. Forests are also cut as a result of growing urban sprawl as land is developed for homes.


https://www.nationalgeographic.com/envi ... restation/

---

Illegal and unsustainable logging: Illegal logging occurs in all types of forests across all continents – from Brazil to Indonesia – destroying nature and wildlife, taking away community livelihoods and distorting trade. Illegally harvested wood finds its way into major consumption markets, such as the U.S., and European Union, which further fuels the cycle.


https://wwf.panda.org/our_work/forests/ ... on_causes/

----
Soybean Trade: Balancing Environmental and Socio-Economic Impacts of an Intercontinental Market

Our analysis shows that the European soybean import has deleterious ecological and socio-economic effects, eroding natural capital by provoking permanent losses of important ecosystem services, while providing no economic benefits to society at large. The ecosystem services concept offers an approach to demonstrate real impacts on local communities (e.g. clean drinking water polluted by fertilizers) and global/future communities (e.g. global climate regulation decrease by deforestation). For this specific global trade market, quantification of these effects in monetary values allowed discussion of the complex trade-offs involved in the expansion of a global market. Finally, a set of actions to increase the protein self-sufficiency of Europe and decrease negative externalities of global soybean trade are discussed.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4887031/

---

Palm oil is destroying rainforests. But try going a day without it. - https://www.nationalgeographic.com/envi ... old-items/

“I would love to drive a Ferrari,” he says, using a favorite analogy, “and go very fast, impress my friends. But it would just be me and another person because it’s a two-seater. The reality is, I have to drive a bus if I want to make a change. We have to find a way to bring on board the whole group.”

---

Back to consumption.
tuco
 
Posts: 15450

Print view this post

Re: Extinction Rebellion are on point.

#112  Postby Ironclad » Apr 25, 2019 8:42 pm

Thanos was on to something.
For Van Youngman - see you amongst the stardust, old buddy

"If there was no such thing as science, you'd be right " - Sean Lock

"God ....an inventive destroyer" - Broks
User avatar
Ironclad
RS Donator
 
Name: Nudge-Nudge
Posts: 23429
Age: 51
Male

Country: Wink-Wink
Indonesia (id)
Print view this post

Re: Extinction Rebellion are on point.

#113  Postby Macdoc » Apr 26, 2019 2:52 am

or not

Image

Sustainable is not particularly subject to raw numbers :coffee:
Travel photos > https://500px.com/macdoc/galleries
EO Wilson in On Human Nature wrote:
We are not compelled to believe in biological uniformity in order to affirm human freedom and dignity.
User avatar
Macdoc
 
Posts: 16798
Age: 72
Male

Country: Canada/Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Extinction Rebellion are on point.

#114  Postby tuco » Apr 26, 2019 7:18 am

Guys, please

page 4

tuco wrote:It's not even a solution. The numbers would grow to the previous state sooner or later. It's a dumbass idea for action movies.


think about stuff, for few seconds.
tuco
 
Posts: 15450

Print view this post

Re: Extinction Rebellion are on point.

#115  Postby Pridefel Knowitelz » Apr 26, 2019 3:38 pm

I still think they're fruitcakes. I've not seen anything to convince me that they're not just a bunch of hippies with nothing better to do than virtue signal and stop traffic. Complete morons all of them.
The burden of proof falls on the ,,,theist.
All ha ...rump.
User avatar
Pridefel Knowitelz
Banned Troll
 
Posts: 134

Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Extinction Rebellion are on point.

#116  Postby tuco » Apr 26, 2019 3:43 pm

There are two issues, whether they are a bunch of hippies with nothing better to do or not, and whether what they are saying is based in reality or not. Personally, I don't care who they are because why should I? They could be a bunch of fucking wankers or bankers with nothing better to do than to rob people for all I care. I care however about biodiversity because I have good reasons to do so.
tuco
 
Posts: 15450

Print view this post

Re: Extinction Rebellion are on point.

#117  Postby Pridefel Knowitelz » Apr 26, 2019 3:45 pm

tuco wrote:There are two issues, whether they are a bunch of hippies with nothing better to do or not, and whether what they are saying is based in reality or not. Personally, I don't care who they are because why should I? They could be a bunch of fucking wankers or bankers with nothing better to do than to rob people for all I care. I care however about biodiversity because I have good reasons to do so.


Seeing as there's no credible evidence that man made global warming is real, by default they fall back on being nothing more than silly hippies. Besides it's all moot anyway as they're very quickly becoming yesterday's news.
The burden of proof falls on the ,,,theist.
All ha ...rump.
User avatar
Pridefel Knowitelz
Banned Troll
 
Posts: 134

Print view this post

Re: Extinction Rebellion are on point.

#118  Postby tuco » Apr 26, 2019 3:47 pm

lol
tuco
 
Posts: 15450

Print view this post

Re: Extinction Rebellion are on point.

#119  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 26, 2019 4:26 pm

Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:I still think they're fruitcakes. I've not seen anything to convince me that they're not just a bunch of hippies with nothing better to do than virtue signal and stop traffic. Complete morons all of them.



Translation: I didn't bother to read all the hard empirical science, and instead opted to rehearse my unthinking prejudice in public to people who clearly know better.
I'm not an atheist; I just don't believe in gods :- that which I don't belong to isn't a group!
Religion: Mass Stockholm Syndrome

Learn Stuff. Stuff good. https://www.coursera.org/
User avatar
Spearthrower
 
Posts: 27415
Age: 44
Male

Country: Thailand
Print view this post

Re: Extinction Rebellion are on point.

#120  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 26, 2019 4:27 pm

Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:
Seeing as there's no credible evidence that man made global warming is real, by default they fall back on being nothing more than silly hippies. Besides it's all moot anyway as they're very quickly becoming yesterday's news.



http://www.rationalskepticism.org/news- ... l#p2691886

:whistle:
I'm not an atheist; I just don't believe in gods :- that which I don't belong to isn't a group!
Religion: Mass Stockholm Syndrome

Learn Stuff. Stuff good. https://www.coursera.org/
User avatar
Spearthrower
 
Posts: 27415
Age: 44
Male

Country: Thailand
Print view this post

PreviousNext

Return to News, Politics & Current Affairs

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest