George, Cardinal Pell Charged

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George, Cardinal Pell Charged

#1  Postby The Serpent » Jun 29, 2017 12:23 am

Probably the most senior prelate to be charged with sex offences.

Cardinal George Pell has been charged with multiple counts of historical child sexual assault offences.

Deputy Commissioner Shane Patton from Victoria Police said the Vatican-based Cardinal was required to appear at the Melbourne Magistrates Court on July 18.

He said the charges were served on Cadinal Pell's legal representatives in Melbourne, and that they involved multiple complainants.


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Re: George, Cardinal Pell Charged

#2  Postby Greyman » Jun 29, 2017 12:32 am

I think we all saw this one coming.
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Re: George, Cardinal Pell Charged

#3  Postby felltoearth » Jun 29, 2017 12:47 am

So is he management or truck driver in this case?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_ ... appearance
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Re: George, Cardinal Pell Charged

#4  Postby Nicko » Jun 29, 2017 1:41 am

felltoearth wrote:So is he management or truck driver in this case?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_ ... appearance


At least three charges of truck driving, as I understand it.
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Re: George, Cardinal Pell Charged

#5  Postby Rachel Bronwyn » Jun 29, 2017 1:53 am

Fucking finally.
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Re: George, Cardinal Pell Charged

#6  Postby lyingcheat » Jun 29, 2017 8:00 am

There are also historical allegations against Pell that date back to 2002, they refer to events alleged to have occurred in the 60's. These allegations were 'handled internally' and never reached the courts.

A church report contains allegations about George Pell abusing an altar boy in 1961-62
http://www.brokenrites.org.au/drupal/node/36


The chances of getting Pell into court this time look a bit slim too. He now has a Vatican passport and may have diplomatic immunity (he can travel freely?), nor is there an extradition treaty between Australia and the Vatican.

Cardinal Pell will re-appear in Australia "if possible"
According to legal experts, Australian civil authorities cannot force Cardinal George Pell to re-visit Australia to be questioned on certain matters relating to church sexual abuse. As Pell is now a senior official in the Vatican State, this can give him diplomatic immunity, protecting him from being forced back to Australia. However, it is possible that he might choose to return to Australia voluntarily.
http://www.brokenrites.org.au/drupal/


But I'm thinking it won't look good to play those cards so they'll use the 'poor George' compassion card instead. He's old and frail dontcha know?

Pell announces a "health problem"
On Friday 11 December (a day before Pell was scheduled to fly from Rome to Melbourne), it was announced at the Royal Commission public hearing that Cardinal Pell has decided that, for "health" reasons, he does not wish to make another plane trip from Rome to Melbourne. Pell sent the Royal Commission a medical certificate signed by a medical specialist who works for the Vatican. The medical certificate didn't say that Pell couldn't travel; it merely indicated that that it would be better for Pell if he did the evidence by video-link from Rome.

Pell still missing in 2016 and 2017
On 5 February 2016, the Royal Commission held a brief procedure (a "directions hearing") to ascertain whether Cardinal Pell is prepared to visit Australia to appear in person when the public hearing (on the Melbourne and Ballarat case studies) resumes later in February 2016. The answer from Pell's lawyers was: "No, Your Honour, he is still not well enough to visit Australia".
http://www.brokenrites.org.au/drupal/node/391


Yet strangely...

Cardinal George Pell is a frequent flyer, travelling in comfort in Business Class. During his years as Archbishop of Sydney, he would regularly make the flight to Rome so as to keep an eye on career opportunities at the Vatican. Now he has become the third most important person in the Vatican, possessing a Vatican passport. He still travels from his Rome headquarters to other countries. For example, during 2016 and 2017, he has made a number of air trips from Rome to London (for example, most recently, in mid-May 2017). But he is reluctant now to make a public appearance in Australia.

Although George Pell was "not well enough" to re-appear in Australia during 2016, his health did not prevent him from travelling from Rome to other countries around this time.

In November 2015, just weeks before he was due to attend the Royal Commission in Melbourne, Pell travelled to France (to visit World War One battlefields), according to a report published later in the Melbourne Herald Sun. Evidently his health did not prevent him from making this trip.

A church organisation (the New Liturgical Movement) reported, on 26 May 2016, that Cardinal George Pell conducted a Pontifical High Mass at the London Oratory for the Feast of St Philip Neri.

Dan Hitchens, deputy editor of the Catholic Herald (U.K.), reported on 29 Nov 2016 that Cardinal Pell gave a talk at St Patrick’s Church, London, about contemporary Catholicism.

On 13 May 2017, the Sydney Morning Herald website (and other media outlets) published a photograph of Cardinal Pell arriving at London's Heathrow airport. The photo was taken by an Australian journalist (Zoie Jones), who is based in Rome. Evidently this journalist happened to notice Cardinal Pell walking through the airport, with his luggage, after the plane landed.

Pell doesn't seem to have "health problems" in France or other countries, only in Australia.
http://www.brokenrites.org.au/drupal/node/391
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Re: George, Cardinal Pell Charged

#7  Postby Nicko » Jun 29, 2017 8:50 am

The thing is, will these charges make Pell enough of a liability for the RCC that they defrock him? Or, at the very least, remove him from his current position?

I can't imagine Pell is in Pope Francis' good books at the moment. This pope seems to want to actually address - or at least be seen to be addressing - the RCC's problems in this department.
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Re: George, Cardinal Pell Charged

#8  Postby Greyman » Jun 29, 2017 9:07 am

Well, apparently he's instructed his doctors to do everything possible to ensure that he can travel home to clear his name. So, no worries, right. Right?
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Re: George, Cardinal Pell Charged

#9  Postby I'm With Stupid » Jun 29, 2017 10:18 am

Nicko wrote:The thing is, will these charges make Pell enough of a liability for the RCC that they defrock him? Or, at the very least, remove him from his current position?

I can't imagine Pell is in Pope Francis' good books at the moment. This pope seems to want to actually address - or at least be seen to be addressing - the RCC's problems in this department.

This will be a real test of Pope Francis, because he's done all the right things and made all the right noises so far.
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Re: George, Cardinal Pell Charged

#10  Postby angelo » Jun 29, 2017 11:19 am

If the Papa does cut ties with Pell, it will be after charges are dealt with. This guy was tipped to one day be in the running for Papa himself.

Doubt that will ever happen now even if found not guilty.
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Re: George, Cardinal Pell Charged

#11  Postby CarlPierce » Jun 29, 2017 11:29 am

Im sure this protection racket has a few bent judges in its pocket.
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Re: George, Cardinal Pell Charged

#12  Postby Shrunk » Jun 29, 2017 2:18 pm

Let's not forget these details about this truly hideous man:

In late 2012, the Australian federal government announced the establishment of a Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse. In a televised media conference, Pell welcomed the royal commission. His comments received significant media attention when he stated that priests who hear confessions from people who commit child sex abuse must remain bound by the Seal of Confession, commenting:[80][81][82][83]

If that is done outside the confessional (it can be reported to the police).... (But) the Seal of Confession is inviolable. If the priest knows beforehand about such a situation, the priest should refuse to hear the confession... That would be my advice, and I would never hear the confession of a priest who is suspected of such a thing.


In a 2012 address, Pell stated that he was deeply sorry for the hurt that had occurred, describing it as completely contrary to Christ's teachings.[84][85][86]

In 2014, the royal commission was told how lawyers representing Pell and the Archdiocese of Sydney incurred costs of A$1.5 million against a victim of sexual abuse. The lawyers, acting on the church's instructions, "vigorously" fought John Ellis through the courts despite warnings of his "fragile psychological state". The resulting NSW Court of Appeal ruling established the controversial "Ellis Defence", which confirmed that the church could not be sued as a legal entity and held liable for abuse committed by a priest in such matters. Eventually, Ellis received $568,000 from the church. In a statement to the royal commission in March 2014, Pell reversed his earlier stance in support of the defence, saying: "My own view is that the Church in Australia should be able to be sued in cases of this kind."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Pe ... xual_Abuse
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Re: George, Cardinal Pell Charged

#13  Postby lyingcheat » Jun 29, 2017 2:28 pm

I'm With Stupid wrote:
This will be a real test of Pope Francis, because he's done all the right things and made all the right noises so far.


They used to be able to do whatever they liked, but now they have to be a lot more careful.

If anything at all happens to Pell it will be retirement to luxury, or perhaps dominion over a quiet but prestigious vatican chapel out of public view and reach.
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Re: George, Cardinal Pell Charged

#14  Postby Shrunk » Jun 29, 2017 2:33 pm

lyingcheat wrote:
I'm With Stupid wrote:
This will be a real test of Pope Francis, because he's done all the right things and made all the right noises so far.


They used to be able to do whatever they liked, but now they have to be a lot more careful.

If anything at all happens to Pell it will be retirement to luxury, or perhaps dominion over a quiet but prestigious vatican chapel out of public view and reach.


I don't think so. The tide has really turned on this, and he is at the mercy of the secular courts. If there is the evidence to convict him, he will spend his last days in prison.
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George, Cardinal Pell Charged

#15  Postby felltoearth » Jun 29, 2017 2:33 pm

Well he's been criminally charged, which implies prison. So we'll have to see.

ETA: what Shrunk said.
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Re: George, Cardinal Pell Charged

#16  Postby Nicko » Jun 29, 2017 2:41 pm

Shrunk wrote:The tide has really turned on this, and he is at the mercy of the secular courts. If there is the evidence to convict him, he will spend his last days in prison.


:this:

As I've said, I think that there is a real possibility that the RCC might want to get out ahead of this one and defrock him before it even gets to trial.

Also, something that came up in conversation this afternoon: don't believe for a second the police statements about "treating this like any other case". There is no fucking way that the police would be laying charges against the third in command in the RCC unless they had the fucker cold.
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Re: George, Cardinal Pell Charged

#17  Postby Shrunk » Jun 29, 2017 3:02 pm

Also, not particularly a propos of these particular charges, but just further evidence of what a vile individual George Pell is, and why the world would be a better place with him no longer walking it freely:

A week after the BEST team released their findings, Cardinal George Pell, Archbishop of Sydney, delivered a lecture at the Global Warming Policy Foundation, a think-tank in London that aggressively pushes climate change denialism.

Although delivered by an extremely adept and influential theologian, the lecture had precious little theological content. Instead, the central part of the lecture was concerned solely with climate science.

The Cardinal criticised those who lazily defer to the consensus of scientists and instead set about himself to explain climate science, leaving the impression that the Cardinal sees himself as a modern Galileo fighting against the scientific establishment.

The Cardinal said that we must examine the "primary evidence" ourselves because although "much is opaque to non-specialists ... persistent enquiry and study can produce useful clarifications." Yet as climate science blogger Tim Lambert has pointed out, what the Cardinal means by "primary evidence" is the work of commentators such as Christopher Monckton (who has no scientific training)....

http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles ... 362551.htm
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Re: George, Cardinal Pell Charged

#18  Postby Arjan Dirkse » Jun 29, 2017 7:36 pm

Shrunk wrote:Let's not forget these details about this truly hideous man:

In late 2012, the Australian federal government announced the establishment of a Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse. In a televised media conference, Pell welcomed the royal commission. His comments received significant media attention when he stated that priests who hear confessions from people who commit child sex abuse must remain bound by the Seal of Confession, commenting:[80][81][82][83]

If that is done outside the confessional (it can be reported to the police).... (But) the Seal of Confession is inviolable. If the priest knows beforehand about such a situation, the priest should refuse to hear the confession... That would be my advice, and I would never hear the confession of a priest who is suspected of such a thing.


In a 2012 address, Pell stated that he was deeply sorry for the hurt that had occurred, describing it as completely contrary to Christ's teachings.[84][85][86]

In 2014, the royal commission was told how lawyers representing Pell and the Archdiocese of Sydney incurred costs of A$1.5 million against a victim of sexual abuse. The lawyers, acting on the church's instructions, "vigorously" fought John Ellis through the courts despite warnings of his "fragile psychological state". The resulting NSW Court of Appeal ruling established the controversial "Ellis Defence", which confirmed that the church could not be sued as a legal entity and held liable for abuse committed by a priest in such matters. Eventually, Ellis received $568,000 from the church. In a statement to the royal commission in March 2014, Pell reversed his earlier stance in support of the defence, saying: "My own view is that the Church in Australia should be able to be sued in cases of this kind."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Pe ... xual_Abuse


I think the church leadership can be held accountable in those cases where they knew about the abuse and failed to take appropriate measures...if some priest did something and the church never knew about it, then I think it would be ludicrous to blame it on the church leadership.

The confessional seal should work like doctor patient confidentiality I think. I think people should be able to confess to sins without the priest directly stepping to the police. However like a doctor they should have the duty to do something if someone could be in danger (of being abused).
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Re: George, Cardinal Pell Charged

#19  Postby The Serpent » Jun 29, 2017 8:02 pm

I think George will come home. His ego is massive. It can be seen from space. I've no doubt he's certain he can beat this.
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Re: George, Cardinal Pell Charged

#20  Postby kiore » Jun 30, 2017 12:19 am

Pity he has not been charged as accesorry to rape/sexual assault in the vast number of cases he hid, opposed or minimised, or the financial damage limitation to the RCC he presided over. Maybe he can beat these direct charges, but the record very clear as an accessory to other crimes.
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