Gillette faces backlash and boycott over '#MeToo advert'

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Re: Gillette faces backlash and boycott over '#MeToo advert'

#1521  Postby Mike_L » Feb 10, 2019 12:14 pm

archibald wrote:
Mike_L wrote:
archibald wrote:


That article was toe-curlingly embarrassing conservative garbage.

Conservative, yes. Garbage... well that's a matter of opinion, I guess.

For example, it applauds the Anscombe Society, which appears to be anti-homosexuality. The Anscombe Society website links to this article on the topic. The article is from the Vatican:

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congr ... ns_en.html

It's just one of several student organisations, as the article says. The author finds it hopeful ("signs of hope") that there are conservative voices on campuses... to counter the dominant leftist, feminist voices. And that's the way it's supposed to be! University campuses are supposed to be places of debate.


I was just pointing out that the writers of the article you found excellent applauded a Roman Catholic anti-gay stance.


No, they applauded the emergence on campuses of conservative voices, of which the Anscombe Society is just one.
__________________________________________

Cito di Pense wrote:
Mike_L wrote:
It's just one of several student organisations, as the article says. The author finds it hopeful ("signs of hope") that there are conservative voices on campuses... to counter the dominant leftist, feminist voices. And that's the way it's supposed to be! University campuses are supposed to be places of debate.


Mike, don't write conservatism when what really turns you on is intolerance. Note that I am not saying we cannot find plenty of intolerance among feminists. If you wanted to debate, then you'd debate the issues that people have become intolerant about, instead of the brute fact that there are people whose opinions differ from your own.

The doings of the Anscombe Society must fall short of actual intolerance, otherwise they wouldn't have been around for fourteen years.
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Re: Gillette faces backlash and boycott over '#MeToo advert'

#1522  Postby Mike_L » Feb 10, 2019 12:25 pm

archibald wrote:A quick google through one of the two other organisations being applauded, The Network of Enlightened Women, soon turns up similar sentiments about Christian faith being allied to conservative family values. Ditto the third of the organisations applauded, The Love & Fidelity Network.

It's hogwash Mike, and woo hogwash to boot.

That may well be! But they're fully entitled to those views, provided that they don't engage in hate speech.
Leftists / feminists have the opportunity to take them on... and to make fools of too-zealous conservatives.
Similarly, the leftists / feminists have the opportunity to make fools of themselves... which they often do.
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Re: Gillette faces backlash and boycott over '#MeToo advert'

#1523  Postby Cito di Pense » Feb 10, 2019 1:25 pm

Mike_L wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
Mike_L wrote:
It's just one of several student organisations, as the article says. The author finds it hopeful ("signs of hope") that there are conservative voices on campuses... to counter the dominant leftist, feminist voices. And that's the way it's supposed to be! University campuses are supposed to be places of debate.


Mike, don't write conservatism when what really turns you on is intolerance. Note that I am not saying we cannot find plenty of intolerance among feminists. If you wanted to debate, then you'd debate the issues that people have become intolerant about, instead of the brute fact that there are people whose opinions differ from your own.

The doings of the Anscombe Society must fall short of actual intolerance, otherwise they wouldn't have been around for fourteen years.


I diidn't say a damn thing about the Anscombe Society. Why are you bringing that up with me? Are you just no fucking good at carrying on a normal conversation with another human being?

There have always been conservative voices on campus, especially at Ivy League universities like Princeton, including those of specifically religious conservatives. Is there a point you wanted to make, or are you still stuck trying to articulate what it is you wish to debate?

Mike_L wrote:
archibald wrote:
It's hogwash Mike, and woo hogwash to boot.

That may well be! But they're fully entitled to those views, provided that they don't engage in hate speech.
Leftists / feminists have the opportunity to take them on... and to make fools of too-zealous conservatives.
Similarly, the leftists / feminists have the opportunity to make fools of themselves... which they often do.


That they do. If you actually want to debate some point, now would be a good time to start, otherwise somebody may notice another conservative voice making a fool of its owner, because it sounds like nothing so much as a content-free voice.
Last edited by Cito di Pense on Feb 10, 2019 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gillette faces backlash and boycott over '#MeToo advert'

#1524  Postby Mike_L » Feb 10, 2019 1:32 pm

What the fuck have you got against the Anscombe Society, Cito?
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Re: Gillette faces backlash and boycott over '#MeToo advert'

#1525  Postby Cito di Pense » Feb 10, 2019 1:35 pm

Mike_L wrote:What the fuck have you got against the Anscombe Society, Cito?


Did I say I had anything against the Anscombe Society? Between the two of us, I'm pretty sure the one having a conversation with the air is you.

You wrote this in reply to @archibald:

Mike_L wrote:
It's just one of several student organisations, as the article says. The author finds it hopeful ("signs of hope") that there are conservative voices on campuses... to counter the dominant leftist, feminist voices. And that's the way it's supposed to be! University campuses are supposed to be places of debate.


Are you having some difficulty keeping track of who the fuck you're talking to? Perhaps you should consult a neurologist.
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Re: Gillette faces backlash and boycott over '#MeToo advert'

#1526  Postby Mike_L » Feb 10, 2019 1:41 pm

What has this woman ever done to you that you hate her so much, Cito?

Image

Gertrude Elizabeth Margaret Anscombe
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Re: Gillette faces backlash and boycott over '#MeToo advert'

#1527  Postby Cito di Pense » Feb 10, 2019 1:44 pm

Mike_L wrote:What has this woman ever done to you that you hate her so much, Cito?

Gertrude Elizabeth Margaret Anscombe


I'm talking to you, Mike, and not to Elizabeth Anscombe, and I hate neither of you. I can't feel sorry for Anscombe. She's dead.
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Re: Gillette faces backlash and boycott over '#MeToo advert'

#1528  Postby Mike_L » Feb 10, 2019 1:50 pm

Well, during one of my conversations with the air, it was she who replied. I'm now both informed and inspired in ways I wasn't before.
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Re: Gillette faces backlash and boycott over '#MeToo advert'

#1529  Postby Cito di Pense » Feb 10, 2019 2:00 pm

Mike_L wrote:it was she who replied.


Hot damn! Conservative voices on campus!

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Re: Gillette faces backlash and boycott over '#MeToo advert'

#1530  Postby laklak » Feb 10, 2019 2:25 pm

I saw Bill Monroe, Lester Flatt, and Earl Scruggs on campus my freshmen year. Bluegrass happens.
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Re: Gillette faces backlash and boycott over '#MeToo advert'

#1531  Postby felltoearth » Feb 10, 2019 3:25 pm

About The Anscombe Society | The Anscombe Society
The Anscombe Society is a student organization at Princeton University dedicated to affirming the importance of the family, marriage, and a proper understanding for the role of sex and sexuality.


Oh good. Finally. Some to show us what the *proper* understanding of sex and sexuality is. Oh wait.

the definition of marriage as the exclusive, monogamous union of a man and a woman; its role as an institution which is necessary for the healthy family, and thus for a healthy society; a conception of feminism that encourages motherhood; and a chaste lifestyle which respects and appreciates human sexuality, relationships, and dignity.


Yeah, this always ends well.
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Re: Gillette faces backlash and boycott over '#MeToo advert'

#1532  Postby archibald » Feb 10, 2019 5:04 pm

Mike_L wrote:
It's hogwash Mike, and woo hogwash to boot.

That may well be! But.....


No, just stop there Mike. You went as far as calling a woo-based, anti-homosexuality, hogwash article 'excellent'. I think that's pretty much about all I need to know.
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Re: Gillette faces backlash and boycott over '#MeToo advert'

#1533  Postby tuco » Feb 10, 2019 5:12 pm

I think there is no need to worry about Anscombe Society or Shannon Watkins, because anyone who is against .. how was it? .. engaging in casual meaningless sex in college, lost before the battle even began.
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Re: Gillette faces backlash and boycott over '#MeToo advert'

#1534  Postby felltoearth » Feb 10, 2019 9:14 pm

Mike_L wrote:
Rachel Bronwyn wrote:You have extraordinary patience, fellto.

Not really. He only made it about one twentieth of the way into the video, and about one tenth of the way into an excellent article.

:)

If there is “excellence” there they buried the lede. I don’t waste my time on vapid, racist, sexist crap. YMMV.
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Re: Gillette faces backlash and boycott over '#MeToo advert'

#1535  Postby purplerat » Feb 11, 2019 4:49 am

archibald wrote:
Mike_L wrote:
It's hogwash Mike, and woo hogwash to boot.

That may well be! But.....


No, just stop there Mike. You went as far as calling a woo-based, anti-homosexuality, hogwash article 'excellent'. I think that's pretty much about all I need to know.

Well golly-gee-willikers, color me surprised that Mike would think anti-gay sources are excellent.

Or maybe this is just another red herring :whistle:
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Re: Gillette faces backlash and boycott over '#MeToo advert'

#1536  Postby Mike_L » Feb 11, 2019 8:16 am

felltoearth wrote:
Mike_L wrote:
Rachel Bronwyn wrote:You have extraordinary patience, fellto.

Not really. He only made it about one twentieth of the way into the video, and about one tenth of the way into an excellent article.

:)

If there is “excellence” there they buried the lede. I don’t waste my time on vapid, racist, sexist crap. YMMV.

I know that leftists don't like to confront anything that challenges their preconceived notions of correct and noble and lovely. But if you'd managed to steel yourself to read past the first few sentences, you'd perhaps have seen that the article contains nothing that could reasonably described as "racist" or "sexist". (For instance, nowhere in the article is race even alluded to.) Then again, leftists cry "Racism!" and "Sexism!" in response to anything and everything that momentarily creases their brows.
As for "vapid"... well there I'll concede that, yes, YMMV.
______________________________________

purplerat wrote:Well golly-gee-willikers, color me surprised that Mike would think anti-gay sources are excellent.

Or maybe this is just another red herring :whistle:

The article mentions the on-campus presence of the Anscombe Society. If you follow the link to the Society's webpage, you'll discover that they espouse standard conservative views on sexuality, opposition to same-sex marriage, etc. So yes, they're right-wing and homophobic. At a stretch, you might say that the Shannon Watkins article is anti-gay merely because it links to the Anscombe website (only one of many links, BTW), but anti-gay talking-points are not contained in the article itself.

What makes the article "excellent", IMO, is its profile on modern feminism as it appears on university campuses.

...
In fact, modern feminism is increasingly growing unhinged and irrational. At times, feminists even refuse to acknowledge basic biological reality. When former Evergreen State College Biology Professor Heather E. Heying spoke about the biological differences between men and women at an event at Portland State University, a group of protestors—mostly female—got up shouting and sabotaged the sound system as they exited in protest.

The self-evident perception that men and women, in general, have unique tendencies and strengths that, when combined, yield results that neither of the sexes could have achieved independently, contradicts the current feminist narrative that announces that the “Future is Female.”

Indeed, according to this most recent iteration of feminism, men are seen as a contradictory force that must be overcome, or at least held at bay, and not as a cooperative partner whose unique qualities complement one’s own and contribute to the good of society. This deep distrust of men makes women feel the need to assert themselves over men at any cost—whether it means holding men in contempt, outcompeting them professionally, scorning traditional marriage, or engaging in just as many or more casual hookups as men do.
...

...
Feminism today has positioned men in the cultural cross-hairs. Wade, a feminist academic at Occidental College, goes so far as to say that it is “masculinity itself that has become the problem.” Another feminist writer, Jennifer Wright, argues that women are afraid that “men will murder them” if they do not give into their sexual advances.

Such demonization of men has led college administrators to police male behavior in Draconian fashion. They can be forced to comply with “affirmative consent” codes (in which they must explicitly ask for permission each step in the seduction) or can be denied due process rights when accused of sexual misconduct.

Meanwhile, women are encouraged to view themselves as perpetual victims and are discouraged from taking common-sense precautions and learning how to defend themselves when necessary. It seems that at the same time feminists are promoting licentiousness, they are finding ways to absolve women from their own poor choices.

Contrary to the mainstream feminist narrative, such cavalier attitudes toward men and sex have not actually benefited the majority of women. According to a study entitled “The Paradox of Declining Female Happiness” conducted by the National Bureau of Economic Research, women have become increasingly unhappy since the 1970s.

Furthermore, research conducted by the Austin Institute for the Study of Family and Culture indicates that sex has different psychological effects on women, who generally associate it with romance more than men do—suggesting that uncommitted sexual encounters will have uniquely adverse effects on them.

And while many college-educated women clearly value professional success, a study by the Pew Research Center suggests that they do not want it to come at the expense of raising a family. According to research from the American Economic Association, for college-educated women, “the biggest premium to life satisfaction is associated with having a family.”

Yet, declining birth rates among millennial women indicate that many are missing out on that very central component to life satisfaction. According to a recent New York Times article, America’s fertility is in “precipitous decline”—with an unsettling gap between the family size women wish to have and what they actually will have.

If mainstream feminism were a movement that truly fought for the well-being and freedom of women, then it is confounding that the social and cultural “wins” it has achieved over the last several decades has not resulted in greater overall female satisfaction and happiness.
...

https://www.jamesgmartin.center/2018/03/campus-feminism-real-war-women/
[That's about as much as can be quoted without violating the FUA restrictions on copyright.]

The essay is not even anti-feminism. It favors the views of people such as Christina Hoff Sommers, host of the video blog The Factual Feminist, and only criticises what it sees as extremist feminism.
It also contains in-text links (not copied over in my quotes) to articles, studies, etc. that support the claims made.
I have little doubt that the majority of members on this forum will be opposed to the main points. But to dismiss it as "racist", "sexist", "anti-gay" etc. without even having read the bulk of the content, is plain lazy, IMO.
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Re: Gillette faces backlash and boycott over '#MeToo advert'

#1537  Postby archibald » Feb 11, 2019 8:29 am

Mike_L wrote:I have little doubt that the majority of members on this forum will be opposed to the main points. But to dismiss it as "racist", "sexist", "anti-gay" etc. without even having read the bulk of the content, is plain lazy, IMO.


True. It's hogwash in other ways too.

Mike, I get that you have an issue with certain forms of radical Feminism. Actually, I do too. But I'm not about to applaud bilge propaganda in the opposite direction that is just as bad, just because it's the 'enemy of my enemy' so to speak. Two wrongs don't make a right. That article is appalling. It's so skewed it needs scaffolding. Please stop applauding it just because you have a valid problem with some forms of radical feminism.
Last edited by archibald on Feb 11, 2019 8:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Gillette faces backlash and boycott over '#MeToo advert'

#1538  Postby Mike_L » Feb 11, 2019 8:36 am

archibald wrote:
Mike_L wrote:I have little doubt that the majority of members on this forum will be opposed to the main points. But to dismiss it as "racist", "sexist", "anti-gay" etc. without even having read the bulk of the content, is plain lazy, IMO.


True. It's hogwash in other ways too.

Mike, I get that you have an issue with certain forms of radical Feminism. Actually, I do too. But I'm not about to applaud bilge propaganda in the opposite direction that is just as bad, just because it's the 'enemy of my enemy' so to speak. Two wrongs don't make a right. That article is appalling. Please stop applauding it just because you have a valid problem with some forms of radical feminism.

I appreciate that you read it, and I respect that you don't value it the way I do. No problem. :thumbup:
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Re: Gillette faces backlash and boycott over '#MeToo advert'

#1539  Postby archibald » Feb 11, 2019 8:36 am

Mike_L wrote:
archibald wrote:
Mike_L wrote:I have little doubt that the majority of members on this forum will be opposed to the main points. But to dismiss it as "racist", "sexist", "anti-gay" etc. without even having read the bulk of the content, is plain lazy, IMO.


True. It's hogwash in other ways too.

Mike, I get that you have an issue with certain forms of radical Feminism. Actually, I do too. But I'm not about to applaud bilge propaganda in the opposite direction that is just as bad, just because it's the 'enemy of my enemy' so to speak. Two wrongs don't make a right. That article is appalling. Please stop applauding it just because you have a valid problem with some forms of radical feminism.

I appreciate that you read it, and I respect that you don't value it the way I do. No problem. :thumbup:


You go ahead and value it Mike. Tell us how excellent you think it is. Don't look for the flaws in it. Only do that for things that you don't like. And then derail a thread about them. Be inconsistent why don't you?
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Re: Gillette faces backlash and boycott over '#MeToo advert'

#1540  Postby archibald » Feb 11, 2019 8:40 am

I agree with you that to some extent straight white man is taking flak these days and that some radical feminists have gone off the end of the pier. But keep that in perspective. There are still issues with toxic masculinity et al that we should be acknowledging, not least because it's not just radical feminism that is bringing them up. It's most women (and some men).
Last edited by archibald on Feb 11, 2019 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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