Google Diversity Memo

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Google Diversity Memo

#1  Postby Nicko » Aug 10, 2017 4:01 am

Recently an engineer at Google by the name of James Damore had some thoughts on diversity in the workplace - kind of an issue for Google ATM - and ideas on how Google might better adress the issue. He circulated them in a memo to his colleagues within Google. A month later, the document was leaked to the media. A day later, Damore was fired.

Google's Vice President of Diversity, Integrity, and Governance, Danielle Brown, issued a statement (my bold).

Googlers,
I’m Danielle, Google’s brand new VP of Diversity, Integrity & Governance. I started just a couple of weeks ago, and I had hoped to take another week or so to get the lay of the land before introducing myself to you all. But given the heated debate we’ve seen over the past few days, I feel compelled to say a few words.

Many of you have read an internal document shared by someone in our engineering organization, expressing views on the natural abilities and characteristics of different genders, as well as whether one can speak freely of these things at Google. And like many of you, I found that it advanced incorrect assumptions about gender. I'm not going to link to it here as it's not a viewpoint that I or this company endorses, promotes or encourages.

Diversity and inclusion are a fundamental part of our values and the culture we continue to cultivate. We are unequivocal in our belief that diversity and inclusion are critical to our success as a company, and we'll continue to stand for that and be committed to it for the long haul. As Ari Balogh said in his internal G+ post, “Building an open, inclusive environment is core to who we are, and the right thing to do. ‘Nuff said.”

Google has taken a strong stand on this issue, by releasing its demographic data and creating a company wide OKR on diversity and inclusion. Strong stands elicit strong reactions. Changing a culture is hard, and it's often uncomfortable. But I firmly believe Google is doing the right thing, and that's why I took this job.

Part of building an open, inclusive environment means fostering a culture in which those with alternative views, including different political views, feel safe sharing their opinions. But that discourse needs to work alongside the principles of equal employment found in our Code of Conduct, policies, and anti-discrimination laws.

I’ve been in the industry for a long time, and I can tell you that I’ve never worked at a company that has so many platforms for employees to express themselves — TGIF, Memegen, internal G+, thousands of discussion groups. I know this conversation doesn’t end with my email today. I look forward to continuing to hear your thoughts as I settle in and meet with Googlers across the company.

Thanks,
Danielle


Here's the actual memo.

As you can see, it contains many vile and misogynistic passages:

Differences in distributions of traits between men and women may in part explain why we don’t have 50% representation of women in tech and leadership.

...

On average, men and women biologically differ in many ways. These differences aren’t just socially constructed because:

They’re universal across human cultures
They often have clear biological causes and links to prenatal testosterone
Biological males that were castrated at birth and raised as females often still identify and act like males
The underlying traits are highly heritable
They’re exactly what we would predict from an evolutionary psychology perspective

...

Below I’ll go over some of the differences in distribution of traits between men and women that I outlined in the previous section and suggest ways to address them to increase women’s representation in tech without resorting to discrimination.

...

I hope it’s clear that I’m not saying that diversity is bad, that Google or society is 100% fair, that we shouldn’t try to correct for existing biases, or that minorities have the same experience of those in the majority. My larger point is that we have an intolerance for ideas and evidence that don’t fit a certain ideology. I’m also not saying that we should restrict people to certain gender roles; I’m advocating for quite the opposite: treat people as individuals, not as just another member of their group (tribalism).


The bastard.

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Re: Google Diversity Memo

#2  Postby tuco » Aug 10, 2017 4:18 am

Thanks for posting this, I was curious myself. Bookmarking.

I've heard that there are around 30% of females working for Google and majority of employees are, well, white males. Also Google is not thrilled this made news.
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Re: Google Diversity Memo

#3  Postby Spinozasgalt » Aug 10, 2017 4:26 am

My response upon reading the memo was, "Oh dear God..."
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Re: Google Diversity Memo

#4  Postby Nicko » Aug 10, 2017 4:42 am

Spinozasgalt wrote:My response upon reading the memo was, "Oh dear God..."


Awesome.

Why, exactly?
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Re: Google Diversity Memo

#5  Postby Spinozasgalt » Aug 10, 2017 4:46 am

Because it's every conservative point on the topic jammed into one memo. He even throws in "Viewpoint diversity is what really matters, so we need more conservatives."
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Re: Google Diversity Memo

#6  Postby Nicko » Aug 10, 2017 5:03 am

Spinozasgalt wrote:Because it's every conservative point on the topic jammed into one memo. He even throws in "Viewpoint diversity is what really matters, so we need more conservatives."


So nothing factually incorrect then?
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Re: Google Diversity Memo

#7  Postby Spinozasgalt » Aug 10, 2017 5:16 am

No, it's completely accurate.
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Re: Google Diversity Memo

#8  Postby zulumoose » Aug 10, 2017 5:56 am

Sounds a lot like "We don't want to tolerate people speaking the wrong kind of truth here, in our open, freely expressive, diverse environment"
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Re: Google Diversity Memo

#9  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Aug 10, 2017 6:28 am

I don't see why he writes a whole essay about how women in general are different in general and then ends with a call to treat people like individuals...
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Google Diversity Memo

#10  Postby zulumoose » Aug 10, 2017 6:35 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:I don't see why he writes a whole essay about how women in general are different in general and then ends with a call to treat people like individuals...


I think perhaps the point was that some differences are built-in and unavoidable, so the holy grail of perfect diversity is not going to be achieved by treating everyone the same, you have to create an environment where people are valued for their individual strengths and allowed to be weaker in other areas instead of pretending everyone has the same potential.

Whatever way you approach diversity as a goal opens up a can of worms. Different treatment and equal treatment are both politically incorrect from different perspectives.
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Re: Google Diversity Memo

#11  Postby Spinozasgalt » Aug 10, 2017 6:51 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:I don't see why he writes a whole essay about how women in general are different in general and then ends with a call to treat people like individuals...

It's funny too how he doesn't give race a similar treatment. His sources are all about sexual differences, but his complaints about certain diversity initiatives are general.
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Re: Google Diversity Memo

#12  Postby tuco » Aug 10, 2017 7:05 am

The author of the memo (name?) explains his motivations, and context, in the memo. btw he does not talk about women in general but on average.

I would like to think that we ought to strive for what we are others are comfortable with in the first place. On average, we are comfortable with non-discrimination, justice or individuality for example, and question is whether or not certain environments, interest groups respectively, reward those in agreement with their agendas and punish those of different opinion.

In open society nobody is holder of ultimate truths, if someone was etc etc so firing someone over opinion does not seem in spirit of such society but rather like trying to keep an image of progressive tech company.

---
edit: strike
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Re: Google Diversity Memo

#13  Postby Nicko » Aug 10, 2017 7:12 am

Spinozasgalt wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:I don't see why he writes a whole essay about how women in general are different in general and then ends with a call to treat people like individuals...

It's funny too how he doesn't give race a similar treatment. His sources are all about sexual differences, but his complaints about certain diversity initiatives are general.


Google is currently experiencing criticism for the gendered "wage gap" within the company.
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Re: Google Diversity Memo

#14  Postby Spinozasgalt » Aug 10, 2017 7:18 am

Nicko wrote:
Spinozasgalt wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:I don't see why he writes a whole essay about how women in general are different in general and then ends with a call to treat people like individuals...

It's funny too how he doesn't give race a similar treatment. His sources are all about sexual differences, but his complaints about certain diversity initiatives are general.


Google is currently experiencing criticism for the gendered "wage gap" within the company.

And yet his complaints are about diversity initiatives in general.
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Re: Google Diversity Memo

#15  Postby Nicko » Aug 10, 2017 7:40 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:I don't see why he writes a whole essay about how women in general are different in general and then ends with a call to treat people like individuals...


Because that's the conclusion the data shows.

Yes, there are gendered differences that suggest that an equitable tech company would still end up with more men than women.

That in no way - as Demore bends over fucking backwards to point out - suggests that women should be excluded from the tech industry, as many women will have both the aptitude and desire to succeed in it. The bell curves of traits he points out as varying - on average - by gender still have heaps of overlap.

I admit, if you're approaching this from the perspective of, "Why would a misogynist arsehole say people should be treated as individuals regardless of gender?" then there's going to be a disconnect. Have you tried reading Demore's memo without assuming that he's a misogynist arsehole?

When the fuck exactly did, "I think people should be treated as individuals and assessed on their merits regardless of gender." become a sexist statement?
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Re: Google Diversity Memo

#16  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Aug 10, 2017 7:44 am

Nicko wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:I don't see why he writes a whole essay about how women in general are different in general and then ends with a call to treat people like individuals...


Because that's the conclusion the data shows.

Yes, there are gendered differences that suggest that an equitable tech company would still end up with more men than women.

That in no way - as Demore bends over fucking backwards to point out - suggests that women should be excluded from the tech industry, as many women will have both the aptitude and desire to succeed in it. The bell curves of traits he points out as varying - on average - by gender still have heaps of overlap.

I admit, if you're approaching this from the perspective of, "Why would a misogynist arsehole say people should be treated as individuals regardless of gender?" then there's going to be a disconnect.

Could be I guess, but since that's not my position it's not really relevant.

Nicko wrote: Have you tried reading Demore's memo without assuming that he's a misogynist arsehole?

Have you tried not straw-manning me?


Nicko wrote:
When the fuck exactly did, "I think people should be treated as individuals and assessed on their merits regardless of gender." become a sexist statement?

I don't know, you should ask someone who makes that claim.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Google Diversity Memo

#17  Postby Thommo » Aug 10, 2017 12:12 pm

Spinozasgalt wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:I don't see why he writes a whole essay about how women in general are different in general and then ends with a call to treat people like individuals...

It's funny too how he doesn't give race a similar treatment. His sources are all about sexual differences, but his complaints about certain diversity initiatives are general.


Spinozasgalt wrote:
Nicko wrote:
Spinozasgalt wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:I don't see why he writes a whole essay about how women in general are different in general and then ends with a call to treat people like individuals...

It's funny too how he doesn't give race a similar treatment. His sources are all about sexual differences, but his complaints about certain diversity initiatives are general.


Google is currently experiencing criticism for the gendered "wage gap" within the company.

And yet his complaints are about diversity initiatives in general.


Are they?

Does the list of criteria described:-

On average, men and women biologically differ in many ways. These differences aren’t just socially constructed because:

They’re universal across human cultures
They often have clear biological causes and links to prenatal testosterone
Biological males that were castrated at birth and raised as females often still identify and act like males
The underlying traits are highly heritable
They’re exactly what we would predict from an evolutionary psychology perspective


Apply generally? Are racial differences (in job preference and performance related to, for example empathizing vs. systematizing) invariant to changing culture and childhood experience?

I'm certainly not sure this guy is right (I am not aware of the quality of evidence that these traits and differences actually are universal across human cultures), but I don't see any way you can say this is a general argument.

ETA: It might be that I'm reading your criticism incorrectly, and what you're actually saying is that he doesn't provide motivation for extending his conclusions to racial as well as gender discrimination, in which case I'd ask what you think he means when he says things like:-
Hiring practices which can effectively lower the bar for “diversity” candidates by decreasing the false negative rate

Reconsidering any set of people if it’s not “diverse” enough, but not showing that same scrutiny in the reverse direction (clear confirmation bias)

Setting org level OKRs for increased representation which can incentivize illegal discrimination [6]

These practices are based on false assumptions generated by our biases and can actually increase race and gender tensions. We’re told by senior leadership that what we’re doing is both the morally and economically correct thing to do, but without evidence this is just veiled left ideology [7] that can irreparably harm Google.
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Re: Google Diversity Memo

#18  Postby Nicko » Aug 10, 2017 12:43 pm

Spinozasgalt wrote:
Nicko wrote:
Spinozasgalt wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:I don't see why he writes a whole essay about how women in general are different in general and then ends with a call to treat people like individuals...

It's funny too how he doesn't give race a similar treatment. His sources are all about sexual differences, but his complaints about certain diversity initiatives are general.


Google is currently experiencing criticism for the gendered "wage gap" within the company.

And yet his complaints are about diversity initiatives in general.


With a focus on gender diversity initiatives in particular. Because that's what's going on at Google ATM.

I'm not sure what your point is here.
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Re: Google Diversity Memo

#19  Postby Mike_L » Aug 10, 2017 1:14 pm

Damore's words are subtly threatening. It's clear that he is speaking from and with his penis. Google must be applauded for acting against the threat of rape.
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Re: Google Diversity Memo

#20  Postby Mike_L » Aug 10, 2017 1:22 pm

However, Google loses some pigment political points... because while their SJW appointee VP of Diversity, Integrity & Governance is named Danielle Brown, her complexion doesn't actually meet expectations. Fie, for shame!

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