Is This Fucked Up Or What?

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Is This Fucked Up Or What?

#1  Postby Calilasseia » Apr 10, 2018 1:57 am

The legislative basket case that is Alabama, provides us with this latest absurdity.

After police killed a burglary suspect in a shootout, the officer was not charged - instead a teenage boy who did not fire the gun has been found guilty of his murder. How do accomplice liability laws work?

Lakeith Smith was 15 years old when he went along with four older friends on a burglary spree. A neighbour called police when the group went into a home in Millbrook, Alabama, and the responding officers surprised the teenagers as they were coming through the front door.

The group turned and fled out the back door, and a shootout ensued. When it was all over, 16-year-old A'Donte Washington was dead with a bullet wound to his neck.

It's never been in dispute that a Millbrook police officer shot and killed Washington - officer-worn body cameras captured the fatal confrontation. A grand jury declined to charge the officer, finding that the shooting was justified.

Instead, Smith was charged and found guilty of his friend's murder. Last week, a judge sentenced him to 65 years in prison. Under Alabama's accomplice liability law, Smith is considered just as culpable in Washington's death as if he had pulled the trigger himself.

"It's sad in my opinion," says Smith's defence lawyer, Jennifer Holton. "The cause of death was the officer's action."


No prizes for guessing the individual now looking at 65 years in prison, is black.

The article continues:

"Felony-murder is a lovely American fiction," says Michael Heyman, professor emeritus at the John Marshall Law School in Chicago. "It's a fiction in that it attributes a killing to you that you need not have done by your own hand."

For example, if a victim has a heart attack and dies while being robbed, the perpetrator can be charged with murder even if he had no intent to kill. If the robber's friend was sitting in a getaway car a block away, under accomplice liability, he too can be charged with murder. One of the most famous examples involved a man convicted of murder for loaning his car to friends who went on to murder an 18-year-old girl. According to prosecutors, it didn't matter that he was 30 minutes away.

These laws make cases like Smith's surprisingly common, where defendants are charged with the murder of their own accomplices, who can be their friends and even relatives. These often occur in the course of burglaries gone wrong, when the perpetrators are confronted by police or armed homeowners. Recent examples include cases in Georgia, Florida and Oklahoma.


In the fantasy parallel universe of American criminal law, you can have nothing to do with a murder, but still face decades in jail for that murder, courtesy of the warped nature of the laws covering various crimes in the USA.

Oh, and that bizarre case of the individual convicted of murder for lending a car (surprise, surprise, he's black too), can be found in more detail here.

Other cases that involve this iniquity, include this one, this one and this one.
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Re: Is This Fucked Up Or What?

#2  Postby Macdoc » Apr 10, 2018 3:28 am

Not emigrating to the US anytime soon I take it ??? ;)
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Re: Is This Fucked Up Or What?

#3  Postby aban57 » Apr 10, 2018 8:15 am

We discussed a similar case here, where the kid got 50 years. That law is just fucked up. As are the people using it. 65 years for a burglary, that's expensive.
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Re: Is This Fucked Up Or What?

#4  Postby Tortured_Genius » Apr 10, 2018 9:57 am

Much was made of the prisoner laughing when the sentence was handed down as evidence of his immaturity.

Frankly I can completely understand such a reaction to the Kafkaesque absurdity of the legal system.

The thing is, these sorts of rulings serve to undermine the entire rule of law. The capricious and racist nature of what passes for a legal system means that entire sections of the community are going to be locked up, disenfranchised or executed regardless of what they do or don't do.

Every killing by the police, every blatantly perverse judgment, every white white-collar criminal who appears to be getting away with ripping off millions (I'd include the president in that category) adds to the feeling of disenfranchisement and disconnection. Then people wonder why people join gangs and get involved in crime.

Gangs provide a consistant (if brutal) social structure that for many is utterly lacking in mainstream life.

If you are looking at the very real possibility of immediate execution when being stopped for a traffic violation, dealing in crack or armed robbery look like rewarding career possibilities. The choice is between living honestly and poor, or getting rich off the proceeds of crime.

And in the final irony, a rich criminal appears far more likely to get something approaching justice (and a much better lawyer) than a poor black man.
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Re: Is This Fucked Up Or What?

#5  Postby zulumoose » Apr 10, 2018 10:13 am

The law and its application certainly sounds absurd, but I don't get why the discussion develops around race when there is no evidence presented that the law is applied differently on a racial basis. Wouldn't surprise me if it turns out to be that way, but still...
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Re: Is This Fucked Up Or What?

#6  Postby zulumoose » Apr 10, 2018 10:16 am

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Re: Is This Fucked Up Or What?

#7  Postby Hermit » Apr 10, 2018 10:29 am

In Australia you can be charged with being an "accessory to the crime" before, during or after the fact, but you cannot be charged or convicted for the actions of the criminal whose criminal activity you were an accessory to.

Now I'll just add the concept and legislative implementation of felony-murder to the expanding list of reasons why I will not set foot on US soil.
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Re: Is This Fucked Up Or What?

#8  Postby felltoearth » Apr 10, 2018 3:54 pm

zulumoose wrote:The law and its application certainly sounds absurd, but I don't get why the discussion develops around race when there is no evidence presented that the law is applied differently on a racial basis. Wouldn't surprise me if it turns out to be that way, but still...

When you refer to “the law” in this case, are you referring to the legal system (or justice system) or the law itself?
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Re: Is This Fucked Up Or What?

#9  Postby Macdoc » Apr 10, 2018 4:22 pm

I suspect some of this is related to gang violence ....easier to put the entire lot away a single swoop instead of determining who was the shooter.
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Re: Is This Fucked Up Or What?

#10  Postby laklak » Apr 10, 2018 4:34 pm

Yeah I think you're right, macdoc. Similar logic behind RICO. I can understand the reasoning behind the laws, but the application leaves something to be desired.
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Re: Is This Fucked Up Or What?

#11  Postby zulumoose » Apr 10, 2018 6:42 pm

felltoearth wrote:
zulumoose wrote:The law and its application certainly sounds absurd, but I don't get why the discussion develops around race when there is no evidence presented that the law is applied differently on a racial basis. Wouldn't surprise me if it turns out to be that way, but still...

When you refer to “the law” in this case, are you referring to the legal system (or justice system) or the law itself?


Well the law itself has to be written in such a way as to allow for this application, that by itself is either incompetent or disgusting, but the choice to apply it in this way does not seem to be in the interest of justice, which should of course be the ultimate aim of the justice system, pretty much by definition.
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Re: Is This Fucked Up Or What?

#12  Postby Warren Dew » Apr 14, 2018 5:03 am

Calilasseia wrote:In the fantasy parallel universe of American criminal law, you can have nothing to do with a murder, but still face decades in jail for that murder, courtesy of the warped nature of the laws covering various crimes in the USA.

It's actually worse than that: since the case was ruled a justifiable homicide, no murder even happened.

And you guys think Americans are crazy to want to have guns to protect against this kind of government.
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Re: Is This Fucked Up Or What?

#13  Postby Animavore » Apr 14, 2018 5:29 am

Warren Dew wrote:
Calilasseia wrote:In the fantasy parallel universe of American criminal law, you can have nothing to do with a murder, but still face decades in jail for that murder, courtesy of the warped nature of the laws covering various crimes in the USA.

It's actually worse than that: since the case was ruled a justifiable homicide, no murder even happened.

And you guys think Americans are crazy to want to have guns to protect against this kind of government.

If the perps used guns they'd all be dead.

Also; you vote for that kind of government.
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Re: Is This Fucked Up Or What?

#14  Postby Alan C » Apr 14, 2018 7:30 am

Animavore wrote:
Warren Dew wrote:
Calilasseia wrote:In the fantasy parallel universe of American criminal law, you can have nothing to do with a murder, but still face decades in jail for that murder, courtesy of the warped nature of the laws covering various crimes in the USA.

It's actually worse than that: since the case was ruled a justifiable homicide, no murder even happened.

And you guys think Americans are crazy to want to have guns to protect against this kind of government.

If the perps used guns they'd all be dead.

Also; you vote for that kind of government.


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Re: Is This Fucked Up Or What?

#15  Postby Calilasseia » Apr 14, 2018 7:31 am

Warren Dew wrote:
Calilasseia wrote:In the fantasy parallel universe of American criminal law, you can have nothing to do with a murder, but still face decades in jail for that murder, courtesy of the warped nature of the laws covering various crimes in the USA.


It's actually worse than that: since the case was ruled a justifiable homicide, no murder even happened.


Which simply reinforces my point.

Warren Dew wrote:And you guys think Americans are crazy to want to have guns to protect against this kind of government.


Yawn.

First of all, the idea that anyone "needs" guns to "protect" themselves from a government whose members they elected, is itself batshit insane. Why bother with a fucking civil war, when you can just vote them out next time round?

Plus, any attempt to jettison the Constitution would result in the Supreme Court having something to say about this. Not to mention any half decent news outlet.

But of course, if it transpires that those elected members of various legislatures, are nothing more than the paid political whores of the Koch Brothers and big corporations, then it's not the government you need protection against, but the corporate kleptocrats hijacking your government. And if you leave it to the point where the only way to stop said hijacking, is to launch a civil war, then more fool you.

Once again, why do I come away from posts like this, more convinced than ever, that guns aren't merely a substitute for a penis in America, but a substitute for neurons?
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Re: Is This Fucked Up Or What?

#16  Postby aban57 » Apr 14, 2018 8:28 am

Calilasseia wrote:
Warren Dew wrote:
Calilasseia wrote:In the fantasy parallel universe of American criminal law, you can have nothing to do with a murder, but still face decades in jail for that murder, courtesy of the warped nature of the laws covering various crimes in the USA.


It's actually worse than that: since the case was ruled a justifiable homicide, no murder even happened.


Which simply reinforces my point.

Warren Dew wrote:And you guys think Americans are crazy to want to have guns to protect against this kind of government.


Yawn.

First of all, the idea that anyone "needs" guns to "protect" themselves from a government whose members they elected, is itself batshit insane. Why bother with a fucking civil war, when you can just vote them out next time round?

Plus, any attempt to jettison the Constitution would result in the Supreme Court having something to say about this. Not to mention any half decent news outlet.

But of course, if it transpires that those elected members of various legislatures, are nothing more than the paid political whores of the Koch Brothers and big corporations, then it's not the government you need protection against, but the corporate kleptocrats hijacking your government. And if you leave it to the point where the only way to stop said hijacking, is to launch a civil war, then more fool you.

Once again, why do I come away from posts like this, more convinced than ever, that guns aren't merely a substitute for a penis in America, but a substitute for neurons?


Also, as you pointed out several times before, believing that a few automatic guns will be useful in defence against tanks, helicopters, high altitude bombers, drones and naval artillerie, is at the same time crazy stupid and crazy...crazy.
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Re: Is This Fucked Up Or What?

#17  Postby Calilasseia » Apr 14, 2018 12:21 pm

aban57 wrote:Also, as you pointed out several times before, believing that a few automatic guns will be useful in defence against tanks, helicopters, high altitude bombers, drones and naval artillerie, is at the same time crazy stupid and crazy...crazy.


Trouble is, though, not only are the hardcore bang-bang fetishists totally oblivious to this (or, as is more likely, entertaining cognitively dissonant fantasies about how hard they are on a grand scale), but have a habit of voting for the most egregiously procedurally abusive right-wing politicians most likely to be the ones to infringe people's liberties. Voter suppression has been a favourite weapon of said politicians for some time, usually deployed in order to stop all those non-white people from exercising their rights, because the politicians involved are cut from Klan cloth when you examine them minutely. But part of the problem is that a lot of the bang-bang fetish brigade are cut from the same cloth. The real reason that a lot of them hoard guns, is because their mentality is summed up by the phrase "we don't want no niggers takin' our white women".

At bottom, the bang-bang brigade are inadequates trying to make up for their tiny dicks, by hoarding lethal weapons in an attempt to try and be big and hard, while at the same time shitting their pants the moment someone with extra epidermal melanin shows up. They're fuelled by a toxic mix of racism, entitlement, and the need to compensate for their multiple inadequacies via the sort of posturing that would be considered an embarrassment amongst a group of rutting stags. Over here in the UK we'd call them sad bastards.

The same sad bastards also harbour some nasty not so secret desires, usually involving "cleansing" their surroundings of anyone not conforming to their bigotries. All of them being screwed regally by the same corporate kleptocrats whose interests the sad bastards keep voting for, because they're too busy being distracted by the usual right-wing dog whistles about abortion and queers and the whole "Christian nation" bullshit (read: white "Christian" nation, which is what this meme, and American exceptionalism as a whole, is really all about). They're too preoccupied with hating the Niggers, Queers And Pointy HeadsTM to realise that their real enemy is personified not by D-Money rappers, RuPaul drag queens or academics who bothered to pay attention in class, but Rupert Murdoch and the Koch Brothers.
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Re: Is This Fucked Up Or What?

#18  Postby Alan B » Apr 14, 2018 2:49 pm

...don't forget the Barclay Bros.
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Re: Is This Fucked Up Or What?

#19  Postby Warren Dew » Apr 14, 2018 7:24 pm

Calilasseia wrote:First of all, the idea that anyone "needs" guns to "protect" themselves from a government whose members they elected, is itself batshit insane. Why bother with a fucking civil war, when you can just vote them out next time round?

Policeman is not an elected position.
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Re: Is This Fucked Up Or What?

#20  Postby aban57 » Apr 14, 2018 7:29 pm

Warren Dew wrote:
Calilasseia wrote:First of all, the idea that anyone "needs" guns to "protect" themselves from a government whose members they elected, is itself batshit insane. Why bother with a fucking civil war, when you can just vote them out next time round?

Policeman is not an elected position.


And almost all the cops that killed unarmed citizens were not federal ones. Do you have a point here ?
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