JFK: Most Overrated President?

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JFK: Most Overrated President?

#1  Postby andyx1205 » Apr 08, 2010 8:28 am

Who agrees? John F. Kennedy is hands down the most overrated President in American History, he never intended to withdraw from Vietnam contrary to the widespread rumors (former Secretary of Defense claims that JFK wanted to withdraw even though he increased the troop level, that's like Rumsfeld claiming that Bush was going to withdraw from his wars), the Bay of Pigs was a disaster, he helped bring the Ba'ath party in power in Iraq who killed countless numbers of intellectuals and teachers, and he didn't do much for Civil Rights (he could have done much more).

I will give him credit for handling the Cuban Missile Crisis though, but in essence the Bay of Pigs invasion can be blamed for the Cuban Missile Crisis. The Soviets were fucking insane though for putting missiles there.

It seems that because of the countless number of conspiracy theories surrounding JFK's assassination, he has been made into some American hero when he was anything but.

Your thoughts?
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Re: JFK: Most Overrated President?

#2  Postby BrandySpears » Apr 08, 2010 9:22 am

The most overrated is Reagan. Just like Wikipedia, I can't think of any accomplishments for him.
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Re: JFK: Most Overrated President?

#3  Postby Scot Dutchy » Apr 08, 2010 10:29 am

andyx1205 wrote:Who agrees? John F. Kennedy is hands down the most overrated President in American History, he never intended to withdraw from Vietnam contrary to the widespread from his wars after starting themumours (former Secretary of Defense claims that JFK wanted to withdraw even though he increased the troop level, that's like Rumsfeld claiming that Bush was going to withdraw from his wars), the Bay of Pigs was a disaster, he helped bring the Ba'ath party in power in Iraq who killed countless numbers of intellectuals and teachers, and he didn't do much for Civil Rights (he could have done much more).

I will give him credit for handling the Cuban Missile Crisis though, but in essence the Bay of Pigs invasion can be blamed for the Cuban Missile Crisis. The Soviets were fucking insane though for putting missiles there.

It seems that because of the countless number of conspiracy theories surrounding JFK's assassination, he has been made into some American hero when he was anything but.

Your thoughts?


I would tend to agree with you but the problem is the period that he was President. The cold war was a very presence in everybody's life at the time. There was so much being kept secret. JFK's life style was one as was the life style of all the Kennedy's. JFK (a curse that affected many of the family) had a massive sex drive which he claimed required him to have a different women every night. What happened in the family home when the boys were young has cost plenty of money to keep it quiet. Remember father Joe was a mobster in New York. Yes a very nice family.
I agree the Bay of Pigs was a major cock up but he was forced to move on that one. The mafia, ex-Cubans and the CIA thought they had him by the short and curleys but in the end he used his power and stopped the air support. No wonder he was killed that made a lot of people very angry.
His assassination did raise him to almost cult status which I think is the main reason people still think of him today.
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Re: JFK: Most Overrated President?

#4  Postby Rome Existed » Apr 08, 2010 10:36 am

andyx1205 wrote: The Soviets were fucking insane though for putting missiles there.



As insane as the US for putting nukes around the USSR?
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Re: JFK: Most Overrated President?

#5  Postby Shrunk » Apr 08, 2010 11:20 am

FWIW, MIchael H. Hart's book The 100: A Ranking Of The Most Influential Persons In History included JFK, primarily because he was instrumental in establishing the US space program. For the short time he was in office, Kennedy certainly was involved in many historically significant events, not least of which was getting shot.
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Re: JFK: Most Overrated President?

#6  Postby Scot Dutchy » Apr 08, 2010 11:29 am

Rome Existed wrote:
andyx1205 wrote: The Soviets were fucking insane though for putting missiles there.



As insane as the US for putting nukes around the USSR?


Yes it was an insane period. How did we ever managed to pull through?
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Re: JFK: Most Overrated President?

#7  Postby Rome Existed » Apr 08, 2010 11:38 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Rome Existed wrote:
andyx1205 wrote: The Soviets were fucking insane though for putting missiles there.



As insane as the US for putting nukes around the USSR?


Yes it was an insane period. How did we ever managed to pull through?


Blind luck.

Take the 1980s when that Soviet in charge of pressing the button decided not to when the computer was telling him that the US had launched.

Turned out the warning sat had seen sunlight reflecting off a cloud and thought it was a launch. That close all over reflection. :dopey:
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Re: JFK: Most Overrated President?

#8  Postby NineOneFour » Apr 08, 2010 11:40 am

BrandySpears wrote:The most overrated is Reagan. Just like Wikipedia, I can't think of any accomplishments for him.

:thumbup: :clap:
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Re: JFK: Most Overrated President?

#9  Postby Scot Dutchy » Apr 08, 2010 11:49 am

NineOneFour wrote:
BrandySpears wrote:The most overrated is Reagan. Just like Wikipedia, I can't think of any accomplishments for him.

:thumbup: :clap:


Reaganomics? :whistle: :lol:
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Re: JFK: Most Overrated President?

#10  Postby NineOneFour » Apr 08, 2010 11:51 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
NineOneFour wrote:
BrandySpears wrote:The most overrated is Reagan. Just like Wikipedia, I can't think of any accomplishments for him.

:thumbup: :clap:


Reaganomics? :whistle: :lol:


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Re: JFK: Most Overrated President?

#11  Postby Scot Dutchy » Apr 08, 2010 11:51 am

Brilliant!!!!
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Re: JFK: Most Overrated President?

#12  Postby NineOneFour » Apr 08, 2010 11:54 am

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Re: JFK: Most Overrated President?

#13  Postby blackarmada » Apr 08, 2010 2:32 pm

God that picture is just so appropriate.
財也大, 產也大
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Re: JFK: Most Overrated President?

#14  Postby Shrunk » Apr 08, 2010 2:39 pm

NineOneFour wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:
NineOneFour wrote:
BrandySpears wrote:The most overrated is Reagan. Just like Wikipedia, I can't think of any accomplishments for him.

:thumbup: :clap:


Reaganomics? :whistle: :lol:


Image


Even if we agree this is an appopriate representation of Reagan's accomplishment, it remains an accomplishment, and an impressive one. To this day, significant numbers of Americans believe their personal financial problems are best solved by diverting wealth from the poor and middle class to the richest echelons of society. See the opposition to Obama's health plan, for instance.
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Re: JFK: Most Overrated President?

#15  Postby blackarmada » Apr 08, 2010 2:51 pm


Even if we agree this is an appopriate representation of Reagan's accomplishment, it remains an accomplishment, and an impressive one. To this day, significant numbers of Americans believe their personal financial problems are best solved by diverting wealth from the poor and middle class to the richest echelons of society. See the opposition to Obama's health plan, for instance.


Proves that faith is the core of the problem, religion is just the most obvious symptom.

I live in a fucking police state and if that ideology is progress i'd keep my dictator. At least i know who the guy screwing with me is.
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Re: JFK: Most Overrated President?

#16  Postby Shrunk » Apr 08, 2010 3:30 pm

blackarmada wrote: Proves that faith is the core of the problem, religion is just the most obvious symptom.


Exactly. "Faith" encompasses a broader set of ideas than just religion. This was made explicit in a statement by an official in the Bush White House (widely assumed to be Karl Rove), as reported in the New York Times:

In the summer of 2002, after I had written an article in Esquire that the White House didn't like about Bush's former communications director, Karen Hughes, I had a meeting with a senior adviser to Bush. He expressed the White House's displeasure, and then he told me something that at the time I didn't fully comprehend -- but which I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency.

The aide said that guys like me were ''in what we call the reality-based community,'' which he defined as people who ''believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.'' I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ''That's not the way the world really works anymore,'' he continued. ''We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.''


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html

Many seemingly unfathomable decision made by the US government under Bush suddenly make sense (loosely speaking) in light of this quote.
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Re: JFK: Most Overrated President?

#17  Postby hadespussercats » Apr 08, 2010 3:37 pm

andyx1205 wrote:Who agrees? John F. Kennedy is hands down the most overrated President in American History, he never intended to withdraw from Vietnam contrary to the widespread from his wars after starting themumours (former Secretary of Defense claims that JFK wanted to withdraw even though he increased the troop level, that's like Rumsfeld claiming that Bush was going to withdraw from his wars), the Bay of Pigs was a disaster, he helped bring the Ba'ath party in power in Iraq who killed countless numbers of intellectuals and teachers, and he didn't do much for Civil Rights (he could have done much more).

I will give him credit for handling the Cuban Missile Crisis though, but in essence the Bay of Pigs invasion can be blamed for the Cuban Missile Crisis. The Soviets were fucking insane though for putting missiles there.

It seems that because of the countless number of conspiracy theories surrounding JFK's assassination, he has been made into some American hero when he was anything but.

Your thoughts?


Getting assassinated does wonders for one's popularity index. Being photogenic and having a wife who is an international fashion icon doesn't hurt, either.

And then there's the Kennedy curse-- all those young family members with their lives cut short-- great for adding a little ominous romantic tragedy to the mix.

When i lived in Boston, I visited homes that actually had a framed portrait of the pope on one wall, and a framed photo of JFK on the other. Both were equally decorated.

Some of them had a third wall with a framed IRA membership-- Boston Irish take their heritage, and their heroes, very seriously.
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Re: JFK: Most Overrated President?

#18  Postby Warren Dew » Apr 08, 2010 4:26 pm

I certainly agree JFK is overrated. There might have been some earlier presidents that were more overrated, though.

andyx1205 wrote:I will give him credit for handling the Cuban Missile Crisis though, but in essence the Bay of Pigs invasion can be blamed for the Cuban Missile Crisis. The Soviets were fucking insane though for putting missiles there.

The Soviets were putting missiles in Cuba in response to the U.S. putting missiles in Turkey. Ultimately, it was resolved by the U.S. withdrawing the missiles from Turkey, and the Soviets withdrawing missiles from Cuba. The public posturing on the part of both governments was window dressing for the public.
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Re: JFK: Most Overrated President?

#19  Postby Apollonius » Apr 09, 2010 8:55 am

Shrunk wrote:FWIW, MIchael H. Hart's book The 100: A Ranking Of The Most Influential Persons In History included JFK, primarily because he was instrumental in establishing the US space program. For the short time he was in office, Kennedy certainly was involved in many historically significant events, not least of which was getting shot.


The space program was ultimately a very good thing, but the real motivation was a cover for developing ICBM technology. JFK's famous speech on it was one of the best motivation speeches from a US president, something that hasn't been matched since.
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Re: JFK: Most Overrated President?

#20  Postby Warren Dew » Apr 09, 2010 9:12 am

Apollonius wrote:The space program was ultimately a very good thing, but the real motivation was a cover for developing ICBM technology. JFK's famous speech on it was one of the best motivation speeches from a US president, something that hasn't been matched since.

Do you mean cover from a public perspective? It didn't seem like the use of the boosters for missiles was ever classified.
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