Joe Lieberman: No 'Freedom from Religion' in the USA

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Joe Lieberman: No 'Freedom from Religion' in the USA

#1  Postby AlohaChris » Oct 26, 2011 2:36 am

Senator addresses students on issues of faith and politics

PROVO, UT — Sen. Joseph Lieberman, of Connecticut, spoke to college students at both BYU and the University of Utah Tuesday about faith and the public square.

Lieberman, who was the first Jewish-American to run on a U.S. presidential ticket, has just written a book titled "The Gift of Rest: Rediscovering the Beauty of the Sabbath."

In his BYU speech, Lieberman justified why a United States senator would write a book on such a religious subject.

"I think Sabbath observance has greatly diminished in this country over the course of my life," he said, "and the country has lost as a result of that."

Lieberman said there is a place and a need for faith in the public square, and that the Constitution provides freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.

That is what makes a candidate's faith a relevant part of political discourse, he said.

"A candidate, it seems to me, doesn't give up their freedom of religion or freedom of expression when they decide to run for office," he said.

"They have the right, if they choose, to talk about the role faith plays in their life," he continued, "understanding that others — voters — have the right to decide, based on those expressions, whether that affects their view of those candidates."

Lieberman also discussed one religious controversy of the 2012 campaign: the Mormon faith of two presidential candidates.

Americans will be challenged again to be true to the founding principles of equality of opportunity and a prohibition of a religious test for public office, he said.


(bold mine) Actually, Joe the free exercise clause has nothing to do with giving religion a place in government.
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Re: Joe Lieberman: No 'Freedom from Religion' in the USA

#2  Postby epepke » Oct 26, 2011 2:51 am

Lieberman's a tool. His toolishness was the main reason I didn't vote in the 2000 elections.
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Re: Joe Lieberman: No 'Freedom from Religion' in the USA

#3  Postby FACT-MAN-2 » Oct 26, 2011 3:13 am

AlohaChris wrote:
Senator addresses students on issues of faith and politics

Lieberman said there is a place and a need for faith in the public square, and that the Constitution provides freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.

What this dope doesn't get is that the Constitution does both, the meaning of "freedom of" religion includes the idea that one does not have to be religious to be a full-fledged righteous citizen. A "no choice" option is just as valid as a "choice" option. Americans are free to choose, to be religious or not, and they are equal in whichever choice they make.

So fuck Joe Lieberman and the horse he rode in on. :clap:
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Re: Joe Lieberman: No 'Freedom from Religion' in the USA

#4  Postby GreatApe » Oct 26, 2011 5:58 am

One would expect someone like Joe Lieberman to say something like this is Provo, Utah at this time.

He's a horrible fucking idiot and I hope he "greatly diminishes" over the course of MY (immediate) life!

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Re: Joe Lieberman: No 'Freedom from Religion' in the USA

#5  Postby mrjonno » Oct 26, 2011 9:39 am

If a candidate uses his religion to try and gain votes the problem isnt with the candidates its whoever votes for them
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Re: Joe Lieberman: No 'Freedom from Religion' in the USA

#6  Postby NineOneFour » Oct 26, 2011 10:45 am

Thank goodness this 900 year old fuck is not running for reelection.
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Re: Joe Lieberman: No 'Freedom from Religion' in the USA

#7  Postby Wiðercora » Oct 26, 2011 10:48 am

NineOneFour wrote:Thank goodness this 900 year old fuck is not running for reelection.


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Re: Joe Lieberman: No 'Freedom from Religion' in the USA

#8  Postby NineOneFour » Oct 26, 2011 11:10 am

Wiðercora wrote:
NineOneFour wrote:Thank goodness this 900 year old fuck is not running for reelection.


He's not a Time Lord, is he? Is he The Master?


I could believe that.
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Re: Joe Lieberman: No 'Freedom from Religion' in the USA

#9  Postby j.mills » Oct 26, 2011 4:28 pm

Americans will be challenged again to be true to the founding principles of equality of opportunity and a prohibition of a religious test for public office, he said.

Merkans can use whatever criteria they feel like in determining what to do with their vote. The constitution binds the actions of the state, not the citizens.
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Re: Joe Lieberman: No 'Freedom from Religion' in the USA

#10  Postby jdp » Oct 26, 2011 5:13 pm

AlohaChris wrote:
Senator addresses students on issues of faith and politics

PROVO, UT — Sen. Joseph Lieberman, of Connecticut, spoke to college students at both BYU and the University of Utah Tuesday about faith and the public square.

Lieberman, who was the first Jewish-American to run on a U.S. presidential ticket, has just written a book titled "The Gift of Rest: Rediscovering the Beauty of the Sabbath."

In his BYU speech, Lieberman justified why a United States senator would write a book on such a religious subject.

"I think Sabbath observance has greatly diminished in this country over the course of my life," he said, "and the country has lost as a result of that."

Lieberman said there is a place and a need for faith in the public square, and that the Constitution provides freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.

That is what makes a candidate's faith a relevant part of political discourse, he said.

"A candidate, it seems to me, doesn't give up their freedom of religion or freedom of expression when they decide to run for office," he said.

"They have the right, if they choose, to talk about the role faith plays in their life," he continued, "understanding that others — voters — have the right to decide, based on those expressions, whether that affects their view of those candidates."

Lieberman also discussed one religious controversy of the 2012 campaign: the Mormon faith of two presidential candidates.

Americans will be challenged again to be true to the founding principles of equality of opportunity and a prohibition of a religious test for public office, he said.


(bold mine) Actually, Joe the free exercise clause has nothing to do with giving religion a place in government.


Lieberman make a curious contidiction here. He starts by saying, "A candidate, it seems to me, doesn't give up their freedom of religion or freedom of expression when they decide to run for office." True, I don't think anyone would suggest otherwise. Although as a practical matter most politicians do in a sense give up some of these freedoms because in a lot of cases if they say what they really believe they may not get re-elected. So you sort of become self censored.

Anyway he goes on to add, "They have the right, if they choose, to talk about the role faith plays in their life," he continued, "understanding that others — voters — have the right to decide, based on those expressions, whether that affects their view of those candidates." Again, both parts true. The canadate may again self censor though.

But he follows it by noting, "Americans will be challenged again to be true to the founding principles of equality of opportunity and a prohibition of a religious test for public office." Which seems to contradict the previous statement and it makes me wonder.

Do you believe that it is right to make a decision on a candidate based soley on their religious views? For example, a devote Catholic is likely to take a stance against abortion; even if they've provided no prior evidence (such as a vote) for that position. For those who say such a position is right, do you think we've seen devote candidates who've been able to temper their personal beliefs when dealing with public matters? For those who say such a position is wrong, is not a religion so central to one's life that it impossible not to bleed into their policy stance?
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Re: Joe Lieberman: No 'Freedom from Religion' in the USA

#11  Postby theropod » Oct 26, 2011 5:34 pm

Joe needs to read this. It's a letter from Thomas Jefferson to a group of nutjob Baptist ministers, and guess what. they were from Connecticut too. How appropriate!

Mr. President

To messers Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem & approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful & zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more & more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from presenting even occasional performances of devotion presented indeed legally where an Executive is the legal head of a national church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

(signed) Thomas Jefferson
Jan.1.1802.


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