Liberal Democrat Watch

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Re: Liberal Democrat Watch

#2501  Postby mattthomas » Sep 18, 2019 11:40 am

Here's my issue with the lib-dem stance, we're all aware that we need PR in this country so to state that a vote that put them in government would be approval of revocation is to continue to validate FPTP as a method of election.

The whole fucking mess started because of asking the great unwashed to vote on something, if you go too far to either side you're going to fuck off half of the population and if brexshit is just cancelled then we've just created our own 1920s style "stabbed in the back" mythology. It will come back to bite us.
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Re: Liberal Democrat Watch

#2502  Postby minininja » Sep 18, 2019 12:28 pm

Yes, you wouldn't be surprised by the Tories or Labour claiming a mandate from a general election victory, but one of the main things the Lib Dems supposedly stand for is electoral reform, so it seems especially hypocritical of them to say they'll overturn the referendum if they win under FPTP. I haven't trusted them since they jumped into bed with the Tories, but this just reinforces it, they can never be trusted.
[Disclaimer - if this is comes across like I think I know what I'm talking about, I want to make it clear that I don't. I'm just trying to get my thoughts down]
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Re: Liberal Democrat Watch

#2503  Postby ronmcd » Sep 18, 2019 6:02 pm

It's a genuinely astonishing policy. And the hypocrisy of that position here in Scotland where there are apparently NO circumstances where there can be a new mandate for an indyref that will be approved by the Libdems, and coming from a Scottish Libdem ...
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Re: Liberal Democrat Watch

#2505  Postby ronmcd » Nov 26, 2019 11:17 am

https://twitter.com/ChrisMusson/status/ ... 9761898498
As if things weren't going badly enough for Jo Swinson, she's made an enemy of 172 daily and weekly regional papers by appearing to impersonate one of their titles. This from Newsquest editorial director:





Newsquest director:
This is outrageous @LibDems passing yourselves off as the Gazette newspaper in same area as our @BasGazette. If this isn't pulled I'll advise all #Newsquest editors not to publish any campaign news for your party in build-up to #GE2019



Editor slams Lib Dems over ‘free newspaper’ with similar name to weekly

A weekly editor has hit out at the Liberal Democrats for publishing a an election pamphlet with a similar name to the title she runs.

Katie French, who edits the Basingstoke Gazette, has criticised the Lib Dems over the party’s publication the Mid Hampshire Gazette, which has been produced in support of Paula Ferguson, its election candidate for Winchester.

The Mid Hampshire Gazette describes itself as a “free newspaper” covering several local districts, with the words “Liberal Democrats” appearing in very small print at the top right of the front page.

The distance between Basingstoke and Winchester is around 18 miles.


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Re: Liberal Democrat Watch

#2506  Postby ronmcd » Nov 26, 2019 11:41 pm

Jo Swinson wins court bid to stop SNP 'fracking' leaflet

Lib Dem leader Jo Swinson has succeeded in her bid to stop an SNP leaflet which accuses her of accepting a £14,000 donation from "a fracking company".


Huh. And there I thought politicians could lie with gay abandon during elections with no recourse in law. Or maybe that's just Alistair Carmichael.

Amazing.

When are the libdems being taken to court over ALL their lying duplicitous election materials, for the last couple of decades?
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Re: Liberal Democrat Watch

#2507  Postby ronmcd » Nov 27, 2019 1:05 am

Here's BBC Victoria Derbyshire asking Jo Swinson about the same issue as a court has incredibly just called "defamatory".

"You took £14,000 in donations from the boss of a firm with fracking licences across the UK. Does that make you a hypocrite?"

@joswinson defends the decision, saying she's “anti-fracking” and the owner's firm delivers 80% renewable energy

http://bbc.in/2XxpFWv

https://twitter.com/VictoriaLIVE/status ... 7943519233
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Re: Liberal Democrat Watch

#2508  Postby Thommo » Nov 27, 2019 2:30 am

That article you linked says the SNP described it as a "fracking company", it also says "It does have a fracking licence but it doesn't engage in shale gas fracking.".

Seems pretty clear cut.
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Re: Liberal Democrat Watch

#2509  Postby OlivierK » Nov 27, 2019 6:08 am

I would have thought that the point where you've acquired a licence, but are still going through the process of getting the various approvals etc needed to turn that into an active extraction site, is exactly the time when having a politician in your pocket would be most useful. Certainly more useful than for companies that don't have licences, or are already up and running, no?
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Re: Liberal Democrat Watch

#2510  Postby ronmcd » Nov 27, 2019 9:42 am

Thommo wrote:That article you linked says the SNP described it as a "fracking company", it also says "It does have a fracking licence but it doesn't engage in shale gas fracking.".

Seems pretty clear cut.

This is true, when *I* acquire a licence I also never intend to use it.
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Re: Liberal Democrat Watch

#2511  Postby ronmcd » Nov 27, 2019 9:44 am

But the real point here is the astonishing gall of the libdems - THE LIBDEMS - going to court over election materials.

Just let that sink in.

The. Lib. Dems.
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Re: Liberal Democrat Watch

#2512  Postby Thommo » Nov 27, 2019 9:49 am

ronmcd wrote:
Thommo wrote:That article you linked says the SNP described it as a "fracking company", it also says "It does have a fracking licence but it doesn't engage in shale gas fracking.".

Seems pretty clear cut.

This is true, when *I* acquire a licence I also never intend to use it.


Because I can't actually see where you, the article, the SNP or I said that the company never intended to use the licence, I'm somewhat dubious of that portrayal. It's an energy company, and if we are to believe the material you linked they have a portfolio of 80% renewables, 20% carbon, of which 0% fracking.

To describe that as a fracking company is deliberately misleading. In plain speech: it's a lie.

It is not normally held to be the case that previous good behaviour or someone else's bad behaviour makes lying a good thing. Cases in point being the Tory "factcheckUK" Twitter account and LibDem local newspaper clones.
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Re: Liberal Democrat Watch

#2513  Postby ronmcd » Nov 27, 2019 3:00 pm

Thommo wrote:
ronmcd wrote:
Thommo wrote:That article you linked says the SNP described it as a "fracking company", it also says "It does have a fracking licence but it doesn't engage in shale gas fracking.".

Seems pretty clear cut.

This is true, when *I* acquire a licence I also never intend to use it.


Because I can't actually see where you, the article, the SNP or I said that the company never intended to use the licence, I'm somewhat dubious of that portrayal. It's an energy company, and if we are to believe the material you linked they have a portfolio of 80% renewables, 20% carbon, of which 0% fracking.

To describe that as a fracking company is deliberately misleading. In plain speech: it's a lie.

It is not normally held to be the case that previous good behaviour or someone else's bad behaviour makes lying a good thing. Cases in point being the Tory "factcheckUK" Twitter account and LibDem local newspaper clones.



Alastair Carmichael got away with lying about the FM because it was deemed to be political and therefore fine, so why we’re now being told you can’t put something on a leaflet that’s only untrue if you look at it from a certain angle I’m not sure. Can open, worms everywhere

https://twitter.com/PoliticsScot/status ... 8658514944
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Re: Liberal Democrat Watch

#2514  Postby Thommo » Dec 02, 2019 8:05 pm

I see the Lib Dems are being accused (and apparently rightly so) of faking evidence to make a legal threat and get an unfavorable story from Open Democracy pulled.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opende ... e-to-hide/
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Re: Liberal Democrat Watch

#2515  Postby OlivierK » Dec 03, 2019 3:20 am

Good read.

Certainly does seem shoddy from the LibDems. Given that the LibDems seem to concede that (as they are disciplining a member of their staff over the apparent forgery), they also seem particularly graceless in not apologising for the accusations they made.
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Re: Liberal Democrat Watch

#2516  Postby ronmcd » Dec 11, 2019 2:39 am

New general election polling (only two more sleeps! how exciting ... :shock: )


Jo Swinson is 1% away from losing her seat in this projection

https://twitter.com/centrist_phone/stat ... 9916879875

Potential silver lining spotted.
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Re: Liberal Democrat Watch

#2517  Postby Hermit » Dec 11, 2019 3:18 am

ronmcd wrote:New general election polling (only two more sleeps! how exciting ... :shock: )


Jo Swinson is 1% away from losing her seat in this projection

https://twitter.com/centrist_phone/stat ... 9916879875

Potential silver lining spotted.

Yabbut what a cloud!
YouGov’s second and final MRP poll of the 2019 general election is here. The model which correctly called 93% of seats in 2017 currently shows that a small Conservative majority is likely. This is the final public polling YouGov will conduct before Thursday’s vote

If the election were held now the Tories could win 339 seats (22 more than they took in 2017) and a vote share of 43%. In terms of seats, this would be the Conservative’s best performance since 1987.

Meanwhile, Labour are set to lose 31 seats – falling from 262 in 2017 to 231 – and take 34% of the vote (a six percentage point decrease). In terms of seats won this would be the party’s worst performance since 1983.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/12/10/key-findings-our-final-mrp-poll

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Re: Liberal Democrat Watch

#2518  Postby Spearthrower » Dec 11, 2019 3:39 am

If the election were held now the Tories could win 339 seats (22 more than they took in 2017) and a vote share of 43%. In terms of seats, this would be the Conservative’s best performance since 1987.


Fuck.

If the tories have to win, at least make it a hung parliament to throw up a roadblock to this bunch of fucking idiots.
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Re: Liberal Democrat Watch

#2519  Postby Tortured_Genius » Dec 11, 2019 3:49 am

Hermit wrote:
ronmcd wrote:New general election polling (only two more sleeps! how exciting ... :shock: )


Jo Swinson is 1% away from losing her seat in this projection

https://twitter.com/centrist_phone/stat ... 9916879875

Potential silver lining spotted.

Yabbut what a cloud!
YouGov’s second and final MRP poll of the 2019 general election is here. The model which correctly called 93% of seats in 2017 currently shows that a small Conservative majority is likely. This is the final public polling YouGov will conduct before Thursday’s vote

If the election were held now the Tories could win 339 seats (22 more than they took in 2017) and a vote share of 43%. In terms of seats, this would be the Conservative’s best performance since 1987.

Meanwhile, Labour are set to lose 31 seats – falling from 262 in 2017 to 231 – and take 34% of the vote (a six percentage point decrease). In terms of seats won this would be the party’s worst performance since 1983.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/12/10/key-findings-our-final-mrp-poll

:waah:


You are aware that YouGov was set up by Conservative party members? - although to be fair massaging the figures may not be that likely (Labour predicted to do crap may be more likely to get the vote out, but the target may be to get Brexit voters onside so :shrug:).

Also, In regard to the 2017 election though, with 650 constituencies, calling 93% correctly mean that 45 were called incorrectly - and given that the majority of seats are "safe" (due to the FPTP system) that looks far too close to call at this point.
None are so hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. - Goethe
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Re: Liberal Democrat Watch

#2520  Postby Hermit » Dec 11, 2019 4:34 am

Tortured_Genius wrote:In regard to the 2017 election though, with 650 constituencies, calling 93% correctly mean that 45 were called incorrectly - and given that the majority of seats are "safe" (due to the FPTP system) that looks far too close to call at this point.

Nobody is calling the election just yet. In addition to the error margins that need to be kept in mind when looking at any polls, there has been a continuous improvement in Labour's standing of late. Yougov's survey was conducted between the 4th and the 10th of December. That gives between eight and two days time for further improvement.

Regardless, the fact that there is even a realistic possibility of Boris Johnson retaining his prime ministership is troubling, not to say profoundly depressing. There are just too many people who don't know who their real enemies are. Today's rulers are the equivalent of yesterday's robber-barons.

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I would not actually call them stupid cunts, though. They are being manipulated and misled by the media.
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