Miliband proposes £5000 limit on party donations

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Miliband proposes £5000 limit on party donations

#1  Postby Mojzu » Apr 15, 2012 11:19 am

Miliband offers £5,000 union cap in party funding reforms
Labour leader wants £5,000 cap on individual donations, which is 10 times lower than limit proposed by David Cameron

Ed Miliband has offered to sacrifice millions of pounds of funding from unions to the Labour party as he set out a comprehensive package of measures to reform the system of party donations.

The Labour leader said he wanted political parties to adhere to a £5,000 cap on individual donations – which would include one-off big cheque donations from unions.

The proposed £5,000 cap is 10 times lower than that previously put forward by David Cameron, but Miliband told the BBC's Andrew Marr Show that the cap should not affect the system under which three million union members individually make a £3 payment to Labour's coffers, a payment which is automatically debited from members.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012 ... ty-funding

Just when I'm about to permanently consign Miliband to the politicians whom I consider utterly useless, he goes and makes statements like these. Which make me slightly more hopeful that Labour is returning to the left and social democratic policies, will have to wait and see what comes of their new policy reviews.
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Re: Miliband proposes £5000 limit on party donations

#2  Postby chairman bill » Apr 15, 2012 11:22 am

Cue an apologist for the Tories bemoaning the payments from individual Trades Union members as Labour being in hock to the unions. You know, the usual shit.
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Re: Miliband proposes £5000 limit on party donations

#3  Postby Emmeline » Apr 15, 2012 11:27 am

Are all union members obliged to pay £3 per year to the Labour Party? If so, that needs stopping IMO.
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Re: Miliband proposes £5000 limit on party donations

#4  Postby chairman bill » Apr 15, 2012 11:42 am

Emmeline wrote:Are all union members obliged to pay £3 per year to the Labour Party? If so, that needs stopping IMO.


No. Not all unions are affiliated to Labour, and all union members have a box to tick on their union application form, enabling them to opt-out of the political levy, part of which goes to the Labour Party. Later opt-outs are simple matters of filling in a short form.

Of course, all this is about enforced support of socialism & is the greatest evil ever to befall humankind.
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Re: Miliband proposes £5000 limit on party donations

#5  Postby Emmeline » Apr 15, 2012 11:47 am

chairman bill wrote:
Emmeline wrote:Are all union members obliged to pay £3 per year to the Labour Party? If so, that needs stopping IMO.


No. Not all unions are affiliated to Labour, and all union members have a box to tick on their union application form, enabling them to opt-out of the political levy, part of which goes to the Labour Party. Later opt-outs are simple matters of filling in a short form.

Of course, all this is about enforced support of socialism & is the greatest evil ever to befall humankind.


OK - I'm happy with that - thanks for the info :cheers:
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Re: Miliband proposes £5000 limit on party donations

#6  Postby ED209 » Apr 15, 2012 11:48 am

Why aren't there any unions affiliated to the torydems?

Surely the expertly thought-through and administered policies of the Munificent Creators of Wealth and Freedom(TM) are incredibly appealing to working people, just like all people, representing as they do the perfect ideology of ultimate benefit to all Mankind :ask:
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Re: Miliband proposes £5000 limit on party donations

#7  Postby Mojzu » Apr 15, 2012 11:49 am

I'd prefer it if the system was opt-in rather then opt-out, it is a donation to a political party after all. But in it's current form it's certainly not as bad as many try to make out.
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Re: Miliband proposes £5000 limit on party donations

#8  Postby Wiðercora » Apr 15, 2012 12:05 pm

The proposed £5,000 cap is 10 times lower than that previously put forward by David Cameron, but Miliband told the BBC's Andrew Marr Show that the cap should not affect the system under which three million union members individually make a £3 payment to Labour's coffers, a payment which is automatically debited from members.


I see what you did there Mr Miliband.
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Re: Miliband proposes £5000 limit on party donations

#9  Postby chairman bill » Apr 15, 2012 12:06 pm

Ref the question about Tory-alliliated unions - what about the NFU?
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Re: Miliband proposes £5000 limit on party donations

#10  Postby chairman bill » Apr 15, 2012 12:07 pm

Wiðercora wrote:
The proposed £5,000 cap is 10 times lower than that previously put forward by David Cameron, but Miliband told the BBC's Andrew Marr Show that the cap should not affect the system under which three million union members individually make a £3 payment to Labour's coffers, a payment which is automatically debited from members.


I see what you did there Mr Miliband.


What he did there was to support the £3 a year payment made by individual Trades Unionists
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Re: Miliband proposes £5000 limit on party donations

#11  Postby Wiðercora » Apr 15, 2012 12:19 pm

chairman bill wrote:
Wiðercora wrote:
The proposed £5,000 cap is 10 times lower than that previously put forward by David Cameron, but Miliband told the BBC's Andrew Marr Show that the cap should not affect the system under which three million union members individually make a £3 payment to Labour's coffers, a payment which is automatically debited from members.


I see what you did there Mr Miliband.


What he did there was to support the £3 a year payment made by individual Trades Unionists


Yes, but he's also undermined Tory donation efforts. Which I have no problem with, really.
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Re: Miliband proposes £5000 limit on party donations

#12  Postby Strontium Dog » Apr 15, 2012 12:35 pm

chairman bill wrote:Cue an apologist for the Tories bemoaning the payments from individual Trades Union members as Labour being in hock to the unions. You know, the usual shit.


It doesn't require an "apologist for the Tories" to state the fact that Labour wants a special exemption for unions.

chairman bill wrote:What he did there was to support the £3 a year payment made by individual Trades Unionists


So shouldn't companies be able to still give £50,000 donations and claim they're giving 1,000 £5 donations on behalf of all of their employees who have failed to opt out?
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Re: Miliband proposes £5000 limit on party donations

#13  Postby chairman bill » Apr 15, 2012 12:44 pm

Strontium Dog wrote:It doesn't require an "apologist for the Tories" to state the fact that Labour wants a special exemption for unions.
Except, as any fool can see, it's not actually a special exemption, is it?

... shouldn't companies be able to still give £50,000 donations and claim they're giving 1,000 £5 donations on behalf of all of their employees who have failed to opt out?
By 'claim', do you mean 'lie'? The true comparison would be with share-holders, not employees. Now, if a company that donates to the Tories was to give each share-holder an opt-out clause, such that their share of dividend went wholly to them, with none going to the Tories, there might be some equivalance. Straightforward company donations out of profits would count as per a Union donating, and be limited to the £5000 cap.
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Re: Miliband proposes £5000 limit on party donations

#14  Postby campermon » Apr 15, 2012 12:46 pm

Strontium Dog wrote:
chairman bill wrote:Cue an apologist for the Tories bemoaning the payments from individual Trades Union members as Labour being in hock to the unions. You know, the usual shit.


It doesn't require an "apologist for the Tories" to state the fact that Labour wants a special exemption for unions.

chairman bill wrote:What he did there was to support the £3 a year payment made by individual Trades Unionists


So shouldn't companies be able to still give £50,000 donations and claim they're giving 1,000 £5 donations on behalf of all of their employees who have failed to opt out?


I'd be impressed if a company could make 1000 x 5 equal to 50,000.

No, then again, it was mathematics such as this that got us in the fucking state we're in now.

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Re: Miliband proposes £5000 limit on party donations

#15  Postby Mojzu » Apr 15, 2012 12:47 pm

That's still a significant cut in funding for Labour. And it's slightly encouraging that Miliband is making proposals that would be against Labour's self interest (even if it hits other parties disproportionately) and in the interest of democratic integrity, as it's something political parties struggle to do. There's been a long history from all parties of gerrymandering in some way or another, it's nice to see a politician (at least in words) try to pull it back in the opposite direction a little.

That said I think that these rules should also apply to union member donations, which should be entirely voluntary and opt-in, but it's a step in the right direction, if only a small one at this stage.
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Re: Miliband proposes £5000 limit on party donations

#16  Postby rEvolutionist » Apr 15, 2012 12:48 pm

@SD... If they had the ability to opt-out then maybe you'd have a point. But if they really did, then I think you would actually have a good point. I agree with Mojzu, that it should be an opt-in, optimally.

By the way, I LOVE a UK political thread on Ratskep. It brings all the boys out for a milkshake... :)
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Re: Miliband proposes £5000 limit on party donations

#17  Postby Strontium Dog » Apr 15, 2012 12:50 pm

chairman bill wrote:Except, as any fool can see, it's not actually a special exemption, is it?


Of course it is. Members should have to actively opt-in to donations.

chairman bill wrote:By 'claim', do you mean 'lie'?


Obviously not. Imagine Tesco had a policy whereby anyone who had a Clubcard automatically accepted that money would be donated to a political party on their behalf, unless they opted out. This would be much the same situation as currently exists with unions.

The obvious reason Labour are opposed to donations being opt-in is because people would actively have to choose to give money to Labour rather than be sufficiently apathetic enough to opt-out, and this would reduce the amount of money Labour gets by a considerable amount. It's so transparently cynical and completely indefensible.
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Re: Miliband proposes £5000 limit on party donations

#18  Postby rEvolutionist » Apr 15, 2012 12:54 pm

Mojzu wrote:That's still a significant cut in funding for Labour. And it's slightly encouraging that Miliband is making proposals that would be against Labour's self interest (even if it hits other parties disproportionately) and in the interest of democratic integrity, as it's something political parties struggle to do. There's been a long history from all parties of gerrymandering in some way or another, it's nice to see a politician (at least in words) try to pull it back in the opposite direction a little.

That said I think that these rules should also apply to union member donations, which should be entirely voluntary and opt-in, but it's a step in the right direction, if only a small one at this stage.


It could be an entirely empty political play if the other lot stand to lose out more. This sort of political posturing goes on all the time here in Australia. We often have major pollies calling for cuts in their salaries or superannuation or entitlements. But they never go through, of course. The strange one we had recently was the Labour government announcing a 3 month paid maternity allowance for mother. Guaranteed to be a winner, particularly because the opposition hate worker entitlements and are always working to strip them back. But what happened? The opposition came out with a 6 month maternity allowance counter-policy. Strange stuff. [/derail]
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Re: Miliband proposes £5000 limit on party donations

#19  Postby Strontium Dog » Apr 15, 2012 12:56 pm

rEvolutionist wrote:It could be an entirely empty political play if the other lot stand to lose out more.


That's exactly what it is. Proposing something that could result in you losing, say for argument's sake, 10% of your funding isn't brave or self-sacrificing if it means your opponents lose 75%.
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Re: Miliband proposes £5000 limit on party donations

#20  Postby chairman bill » Apr 15, 2012 1:01 pm

Strontium Dog wrote:
chairman bill wrote:Except, as any fool can see, it's not actually a special exemption, is it?


Of course it is. Members should have to actively opt-in to donations.
Why? When they join the union, the tick-box is there for them to opt-out. They know it's there, they know they can tick the box to opt-out. Why is opt-in so very different?

chairman bill wrote:By 'claim', do you mean 'lie'?


Obviously not. Imagine Tesco had a policy whereby anyone who had a Clubcard automatically accepted that money would be donated to a political party on their behalf, unless they opted out. This would be much the same situation as currently exists with unions.
Except that union members don't automatically accept anything - they join, fill in a form, don't tick the opt-out from political levy box, and so on. Tesco would have to give such an option.

The obvious reason Labour are opposed to donations being opt-in is because people would actively have to choose to give money to Labour rather than be sufficiently apathetic enough to opt-out, and this would reduce the amount of money Labour gets by a considerable amount. It's so transparently cynical and completely indefensible.
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