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NHS

#1  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jul 28, 2017 9:02 am

A thread for the NHS.

NHS accused of shrouding £500m of planned cuts in secrecy
BMA says patients deserve to know the impact of savings in healthcare across England


Doctors’ leaders have accused NHS bosses of shrouding controversial plans for £500m of cuts to services across England in “totally unacceptable secrecy”.

Patients deserve to know how hospitals being told to “think the unthinkable” as part of the savings drive will affect their access to healthcare, the British Medical Association (BMA) said on Friday.

The doctors’ union voiced its frustration after trying but failing to obtain details of the cuts that are being planned in the 13 areas affected by the “capped expenditure process” (CEP), despite the NHS’s duty as a public body to respond to freedom of information requests.

NHS bodies in just eight of the 13 areas replied, and none gave anything other than vague, general details about what cuts were under consideration.

“It is bad enough that brutal cuts could threaten the services but it is totally unacceptable that proposals of this scale, which would affect large numbers of patients, are shrouded in such secrecy,” said David Wrigley, the BMA’s deputy chair.

In April organisations providing all types of care as well as clinical commissioning groups, the local bodies which hold the NHS budget in England, in the 13 areas were told to make an extra £500m of savings by the end of March 2018 over and above those already planned. The orders came from NHS England and NHS Improvement, the service’s financial regulator, which are keen that its books can be made to balance in 2017-18.

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Privatisation date 1-4-19?
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Re: NHS

#2  Postby Tracer Tong » Jul 28, 2017 2:15 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:A thread for the NHS.

NHS accused of shrouding £500m of planned cuts in secrecy
BMA says patients deserve to know the impact of savings in healthcare across England


Doctors’ leaders have accused NHS bosses of shrouding controversial plans for £500m of cuts to services across England in “totally unacceptable secrecy”.

Patients deserve to know how hospitals being told to “think the unthinkable” as part of the savings drive will affect their access to healthcare, the British Medical Association (BMA) said on Friday.

The doctors’ union voiced its frustration after trying but failing to obtain details of the cuts that are being planned in the 13 areas affected by the “capped expenditure process” (CEP), despite the NHS’s duty as a public body to respond to freedom of information requests.

NHS bodies in just eight of the 13 areas replied, and none gave anything other than vague, general details about what cuts were under consideration.

“It is bad enough that brutal cuts could threaten the services but it is totally unacceptable that proposals of this scale, which would affect large numbers of patients, are shrouded in such secrecy,” said David Wrigley, the BMA’s deputy chair.

In April organisations providing all types of care as well as clinical commissioning groups, the local bodies which hold the NHS budget in England, in the 13 areas were told to make an extra £500m of savings by the end of March 2018 over and above those already planned. The orders came from NHS England and NHS Improvement, the service’s financial regulator, which are keen that its books can be made to balance in 2017-18.

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Privatisation date 1-4-19?


Let's hope so.
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Re: NHS

#3  Postby mrjonno » Jul 28, 2017 3:45 pm

Well the morons voted for it with Brexit.

I will have to pay more for my healthcare they will die.

I guess I will have to live with that, they won't
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Re: NHS

#4  Postby Scot Dutchy » Oct 01, 2017 8:54 am

NHS privatisation exposed: Scale of treatment for paying patients at NHS hospitals revealed


Exclusive: Think tank Public Matters says the lives of people who cannot afford to pay ‘may be at risk’ as NHS facilities are used to treat private patients


An investigation by The Independent has exposed the extent of creeping NHS privatisation, leaving experts warning that state patients risk being sidelined as beds are diverted to private users.

Data obtained under Freedom of Information law shows income from private patients at one of London’s best-known cancer-specialist hospitals doubled in six years as the law was changed to allow NHS trusts to do more paid work.

Statistics quietly released by the Government show the situation is not isolated, with the total amount of income NHS England made from private patients leaping by a third between 2011-12 and 2016-17.

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The first of April 2019 is still looking good for privatisation.
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Re: NHS

#6  Postby Scot Dutchy » Oct 01, 2017 8:58 am

This is about England Ron. I know the Scottish NHS is turning into a different beast.
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Re: NHS

#7  Postby Sendraks » Oct 02, 2017 9:43 am

Tracer Tong wrote:[
Let's hope so.


Why?
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Re: NHS

#8  Postby Sendraks » Oct 02, 2017 9:51 am

Also - the NHS being asked to make efficiency savings is not new. In 2008, the NHS saved £1.5bn.

But, lets all flail our arms and panic eh?
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Re: NHS

#9  Postby Sendraks » Oct 02, 2017 10:44 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41451162

The comments of the new chief inspector, Prof Ted Baker, are pretty scathing. I find it hard to disagree with his view that the overall model of care hasn't changed that much although, I would sizeable portion of the blame for that lies in extensive system reconfigurations since the 1990s. That the NHS hasn't had any such change since 2013, does speak rather well of the current SofS Health, who evidently isn't of the view that rearranging the NHS is the solution to all ills. Long may that state of affairs continue.

That the NHS needs more investment is debatable. The NHS needs to get better at managing its resources. It should surprise no one, that CQC's state of care report for 2016 found that the top performing NHS Trusts in terms of quality and safety of care, were also the best at managing their resources. CQC has also refused to recommend certain Trusts be removed from special measures because, the Trusts solution to problems was unsustainably throwing money at problems.

The NHS isn't sustainable in the long term, regardless of how much money gets thrown at it, because the NHS isn't the best used of funds to deal with the demands of a growing elderly population. The money needs to go into the adult social care sector, to facilitate the provision of residential and domiciliary care services which can meet the needs of elderly people at a much lower cost than the NHS can. Until we have a Government willing to grasp that nettle (and presently, there isn't a single political party who looks willing to), the NHS problem's will persist.

One thing that is clear, is that the private sector hasn't forgotten the lessons of the Hinchingbrooke debacle. Private providers are not queuing up to take over the running of NHS Trusts wholesale. They don't know how to and they also know it is not profitable.
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Re: NHS

#10  Postby Scot Dutchy » Oct 02, 2017 10:46 am

They just want the cherries.
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Re: NHS

#11  Postby Sendraks » Oct 02, 2017 11:34 am

Indeed they do but, the private sectors record on the cherry picking is a mixed bag. The private sector has had a role in providing support to the NHS for a very long time, in picking up elective care work which the NHS doesn't have the capacity to deliver. Sometimes this has gone well and other times not so well (the varying performance in ISTCs in delivering targets for elective care in the noughties being a testament to this).

The only problem with private sector involvement in elective care, is the lack of meaningful consequence for when they fail to deliver. I suspect this is because politicians and senior NHS sorts don't want to scare off the private sector completely and also because the private sector could rightly point out that NHS providers suffer a lack of meaningful consequences for failing to deliver on its own contractual requirements. So that's a bit of a pickle really.

The involvement of the private sector in providing elective is helpful, as long as it can be held to account for delivery.
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Re: NHS

#12  Postby Scot Dutchy » Oct 02, 2017 12:40 pm

We have private clinics these days but doing very day to day treatments. Not major ones. My wife was treated by one for a polyp (non cancer) in her stomach. It was very efficient taking in total three weeks from initial investigation to the actual treatment in a very modern clinic. Her insurance covered everything. These clinics are under constant strict supervision by the health inspectorate. Failing to reach any targets results in immediate closure. Plenty of companies are happy to accept these very strict conditions.
Here because all health providers are initially either a foundation or private. We dont have any service provided by the government. Failure to deliver will result into an investigation which would lead to a fine, being put on the watch list or closure. We have had in past a few departments being shut down by the inspectorate. All complaints are swiftly dealt with as the inspectorate has to live itself by strict rules of delivery.
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Re: NHS

#13  Postby Sendraks » Oct 02, 2017 12:47 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:We have private clinics these days but doing very day to day treatments. Not major ones.


That's what those private providers are doing. That is what elective surgery is.

All the major serious stuff is still done by the NHS acute trusts because, for the most part, the private providers won't touch it.
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Re: NHS

#14  Postby Scot Dutchy » Oct 02, 2017 12:59 pm

Why are not the trusts made private foundations responsible for there own staffing and wages?
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Re: NHS

#15  Postby Tracer Tong » Oct 02, 2017 1:08 pm

Sendraks wrote:
Tracer Tong wrote:
Let's hope so.


Why?


It was a bit tongue in cheek, but I guess I don’t find privately provided healthcare an inherent evil, providing it’s adequately regulated; Switzerland is a good example of this. With regards to the NHS, I’m not sure that in the long run it’s really affordable.
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Re: NHS

#16  Postby Sendraks » Oct 02, 2017 1:21 pm

Tracer Tong wrote:
It was a bit tongue in cheek, but I guess I don’t find privately provided healthcare an inherent evil, providing it’s adequately regulated; Switzerland is a good example of this.


And I would agree with this and would point out that a lot of private provision has always gone on in the NHS, to the great benefit of the service. As long as the principle of the care being free at the point of need remains in place, it really doesn't matter whether the care is provided by a private run or publicly owned body.

However, a socially run system isn't an inherent evil either and the NHS has been repeatedly found to be one of the most efficient healthcare systems in the world.

Tracer Tong wrote:With regards to the NHS, I’m not sure that in the long run it’s really affordable.


Which simply isn't correct and I've already covered the funding issue in my earlier post.
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Re: NHS

#17  Postby Tracer Tong » Oct 02, 2017 1:31 pm

Sendraks wrote:
Tracer Tong wrote:
It was a bit tongue in cheek, but I guess I don’t find privately provided healthcare an inherent evil, providing it’s adequately regulated; Switzerland is a good example of this.


And I would agree with this and would point out that a lot of private provision has always gone on in the NHS, to the great benefit of the service. As long as the principle of the care being free at the point of need remains in place, it really doesn't matter whether the care is provided by a private run or publicly owned body.

However, a socially run system isn't an inherent evil either and the NHS has been repeatedly found to be one of the most efficient healthcare systems in the world.


I’m not especially committed to “free at the point of need”, either, though it’s a bit of a vague idea.

Sendraks wrote:

Tracer Tong wrote:With regards to the NHS, I’m not sure that in the long run it’s really affordable.


Which simply isn't correct and I've already covered the funding issue in my earlier post.


Only a moment ago you were agreeing with me, in the post you refer to.
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Re: NHS

#18  Postby Sendraks » Oct 02, 2017 1:41 pm

Tracer Tong wrote:I’m not especially committed to “free at the point of need”, either, though it’s a bit of a vague idea.


No it isn't.

Tracer Tong wrote:Only a moment ago you were agreeing with me, in the post you refer to.


And I'm guessing you only read those parts of the post rather than the entire thing.
At the risk of repeating myself, the sustainability of the NHS in the long term is contingent on money being spent on social care. Do that and the NHS is eminently sustainable.
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Re: NHS

#19  Postby Tracer Tong » Oct 02, 2017 2:03 pm

Sendraks wrote:
Tracer Tong wrote:I’m not especially committed to “free at the point of need”, either, though it’s a bit of a vague idea.

No it isn't.


Yes, it is.

Sendraks wrote:
Tracer Tong wrote:Only a moment ago you were agreeing with me, in the post you refer to.

And I'm guessing you only read those parts of the post rather than the entire thing.


Nope.

Sendraks wrote:
At the risk of repeating myself, the sustainability of the NHS in the long term is contingent on money being spent on social care. Do that and the NHS is eminently sustainable.


OK: so when you said “The NHS isn’t sustainable in the long term, regardless of how much money gets thrown at it”, you meant that it is sustainable in long term, regardless of how much money gets thrown at it, on condition that money is spent on social care.

Now that that’s clear, I can just say that assessment simply isn’t correct.
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Re: NHS

#20  Postby Scot Dutchy » Oct 02, 2017 2:08 pm

Our social care is run the same as our health care.

Here is the entry in EHCI 2016 report:

15th place, 761 points.
A 2014 survey to the public of the UK, asking about “What is the essence of being British?” got the most common response “Having access to the NHS”. Nevertheless, the UK healthcare system has never made it into the top 10 of the EHCI, mainly due to poor accessibility (together with Poland and Sweden the worst among European healthcare systems) and an autocratic top - down management culture.
Mediocre Outcomes of the British healthcare system are improving, with the UK scoring Green on Infant Mortality for the first time in the EHCI.
The country, which once created the Bletchley Park code breaking institution would do well to study the style of management of professional specialists created there!


https://healthpowerhouse.com/files/EHCI_2016/EHCI_2016_report.pdf
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