November USA 2020 election

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Re: November USA 2020 election

#41  Postby Hermit » Apr 01, 2020 3:46 pm

WayOfTheDodo wrote:Refusing to vote for both shitty candidates might cause the whole thing to go to shit so that one can rebuild it in a better way.

Supporters of that approach have been mentioned just a few hours ago.
Spinozasgalt wrote:We call them "accelerationists" in my neck of the online woods. And yes, it's very foolish.

In the 1930s the KPD said there is no point voting for anyone because the SPD was almost indistinguishable from the NSDAP, so may as well give the latter free rein. It was meant to accelerate the collapse of the capitalist system. That did not pan out as anticipated and at least 55 million people died prematurely as a result of the miscalculation.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#42  Postby Animavore » Apr 01, 2020 3:49 pm

WayOfTheDodo wrote:
Animavore wrote:It's more than foolish. These type of Bernie supporters would rather vote for someone who pushes America further from Bernie's vision, and making it harder to come back from (especially after one more Supreme Court pick). Even Bernie himself recognised this when he tried to urge his supporters to vote Hillary rather than let Trump win becuse he recognised very early the game plan from the Republicans. They've pretty much done everything he said they would do. Case in point; running up the debt by reducing tax then claiming they have to strip social security and healthcare to pay for it.

Establishment Democrats have been pushing America further from Bernie's vision for decades. The whole reason President Trump exists in the first place is that Establishment Democrats have done jack shit for regular working people.

Don't blame voters for the uselessness of corrupt politicians and their allies in the business and media communities.

I don't think the type of Bernie supporter I quoted above even listen to what Bernie actually says. They just care he makes waves.

No, they care about the policies, and what he does. Saying change is needed and then propping up a corrupt shithead against another corrupt shithead means that actions do not necessarily match the words.


They clearly don't care or they wouldn't let the exact opposite end of the spectrum win.

And yes. I will blame them. The maxim about they only thing for evil men to takeover is for good men to do nothing [paraphrased] applies here.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#43  Postby Cito di Pense » Apr 01, 2020 3:59 pm

WayOfTheDodo wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
WayOfTheDodo wrote:
That's the thing. More and more people are simply sick and tired of being screwed by the establishment

Now would be a good time to confess how you, personally, are being screwed over. If corruption is affecting you, personally, that is. I mean, if you're just campaigning for those who, unlike yourself, are being screwed over, do you even know who they are? Don't forget, you're on the verge of saying Trumpism isn't screwing them over in a worse way.

I'm just explaining how a lot of people think these days.


I can just imagine how handsomely you're being compensated (by all those "lots of people") for your efforts out there in your little bubble of genius, Dodo, and I'm not just talking about money.

WayOfTheDodo wrote:
Establishment Democrats have been pushing America further from Bernie's vision for decades.


I already asked you about this. Who was the last Democrat who was not pushing America further from whatever you've designated as Bernie's vision before it belonged to Bernie? Or did it spring full grown from the brow...?

WayOfTheDodo wrote:Bernie's vision


You mean, Dodo's vision of Bernie's vision. Go with God, Dodo. Hope you find someone on that Damascus road.

WayOfTheDodo wrote:
No, they care about the policies, and what he does.


Which is what, Dodo? You ain't saying. You've got somebody who says things you like and hasn't had the chance to disappoint you yet. Go with God, Dodo. Meanwhile, you've already said you're happy to have Trump re-elected to punish the evil-doers.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#44  Postby The_Piper » Apr 01, 2020 4:15 pm

Alan C wrote:I think Bernie nixed that, he didn't think having two old white guys would be a good look.

Better someone like Warren I'd say.

She looks younger than her age of 70. Plus she threw Sanders under the bus in a disingenuoue way. Well, tried to, but then slipped under it herself instead.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#45  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 01, 2020 5:03 pm

WayOfTheDodo wrote:
Animavore wrote:
WayOfTheDodo wrote:
Animavore wrote:
The height of stupidity.

Or is the height of stupidity to keep voting for candidates who keep screwing you over? As long as people keep voting for corrupt Establishment Democrats, the corruption will never end. I mean, did you read about AOC's first days as an elected official? New members were basically trained by corporate CEOs who told them "don't rock the boat". The corruption is everywhere.


Voting for Trump is more stupid. By the time he finishes the EPA will be destroyed. The Grand Canyon will be turned to Disney Land and much of the US suffering pollution, not to mention the effects on the rest of the globe. More immigrants and their children will suffer. Roe Vs Wade scrapped. More Trump-inspired attacks on minorities. More religious intrusion in the public sphere. Healthcare non-existent. Social security safety nets removed. More attacks on civil rights. More anti-privacy in the name of 'security'. Etc.

The amount of selfishness and privilege in people who can vote to watch the world burn is unbelievable. And yes, completely and utterly shoot-yourself-in-the-foot stupid.

The alternative to not voting for Biden isn't voting for Trump.

You can try to lecture people all you want. All they see is that they are being screwed no matter who's in charge. Why would they bother to vote when it's going to be the same crap regardless of who's in charge? They tried voting for the corrupt Establishment Democrat many times. It didn't work out for them. They likely see it as stupid to do something which is just going to keep screwing them.

Refusing to vote for both shitty candidates might cause the whole thing to go to shit so that one can rebuild it in a better way.


Yeah Ani - don't lecture Dodo while he's busy lecturing you! How rude!
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#46  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 01, 2020 5:04 pm

WayOfTheDodo wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
WayOfTheDodo wrote:
That's the thing. More and more people are simply sick and tired of being screwed by the establishment

Now would be a good time to confess how you, personally, are being screwed over. If corruption is affecting you, personally, that is. I mean, if you're just campaigning for those who, unlike yourself, are being screwed over, do you even know who they are? Don't forget, you're on the verge of saying Trumpism isn't screwing them over in a worse way.


I'm just explaining how a lot of people think these days.



A lot of people have been saying it... bigly. Yuuge numbers. Numbers you've never even heard of.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#47  Postby OlivierK » Apr 01, 2020 8:53 pm

Dodo's a lost cause. He's basically said, over and over, that Biden and Trump are as bad as each other.

He's right that Biden would be like other corporatist Democrats, who only throw progressives occasional scraps, along with a few bigger morsels when that aligns with corporate interest, and contemptuously think "Well, who else are they going to vote for?"

But Trump has demonstrated that his standard operating procedure is to hunt down those progressive scraps and morsels, and grind them to dust.

While Biden would only inch the Progressive vehicle forward in a token way, Trump's in reverse with his foot to the floor on the accelerator.

But you know, same, same.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#48  Postby Hermit » Apr 01, 2020 9:57 pm

Worst of all is how Trump will stack the judiciary. Ginsburg is 87 and Breyer is 81. Replace them with two malleable sleazebags like Kavanaugh and you can kiss Roe v. Wade goodbye. With a mix of conservatism and corruption there'll be some very curious reinterpretations of the Constitution clearing the way for theocracy, child labour and all sorts of goodies like that. Anybody who thinks this can never happen may well be in for a rude surprise.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#49  Postby proudfootz » Apr 02, 2020 12:06 am

Maybe this time around Bernie supporters can make up for the 12 million plus Obama voters who refused to vote for Clinton.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#50  Postby OlivierK » Apr 02, 2020 3:28 am

I wish Bloomberg had run a "Vote Mike, the Moderate Republican!" third-party bid. If he wanted to use his billions to guarantee a Democratic victory, it would have been much more effective.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#51  Postby proudfootz » Apr 03, 2020 1:48 am

OlivierK wrote:I wish Bloomberg had run a "Vote Mike, the Moderate Republican!" third-party bid. If he wanted to use his billions to guarantee a Democratic victory, it would have been much more effective.


Conversely, Bloomberg, a Republican, could have primaried Trump.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#52  Postby OlivierK » Apr 03, 2020 8:25 am

What's the point of that? He'd get steamrollered in a primary, just like everyone who primaries a sitting president.

Far better to siphon off 20% or so of the republican vote in the general.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#53  Postby proudfootz » Apr 03, 2020 1:11 pm

At least it would have the virtue of not sabotaging the Democratic primary.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#54  Postby WayOfTheDodo » Apr 03, 2020 5:48 pm

Hermit wrote:
WayOfTheDodo wrote:Refusing to vote for both shitty candidates might cause the whole thing to go to shit so that one can rebuild it in a better way.

Supporters of that approach have been mentioned just a few hours ago.
Spinozasgalt wrote:We call them "accelerationists" in my neck of the online woods. And yes, it's very foolish.

In the 1930s the KPD said there is no point voting for anyone because the SPD was almost indistinguishable from the NSDAP, so may as well give the latter free rein. It was meant to accelerate the collapse of the capitalist system. That did not pan out as anticipated and at least 55 million people died prematurely as a result of the miscalculation.

Yes, and Hitler also drank water, so drinking water makes you a Nazi.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#55  Postby WayOfTheDodo » Apr 03, 2020 5:51 pm

Animavore wrote:The maxim about they only thing for evil men to takeover is for good men to do nothing [paraphrased] applies here.

Biden is evil too, though.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#56  Postby WayOfTheDodo » Apr 03, 2020 5:56 pm

proudfootz wrote:At least it would have the virtue of not sabotaging the Democratic primary.

I'm afraid the Democratic primary has already been sabotaged by Democrats and their corporate owners.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#57  Postby WayOfTheDodo » Apr 03, 2020 5:57 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
WayOfTheDodo wrote:No, they care about the policies, and what he does.

Which is what, Dodo? You ain't saying.

I don't understand why it's so hard for you to discuss this without resorting to personal attacks. So I'm only going to respond to this.

You can simply visit Bernie's site to look up things like Medicare for All, Green New Deal, and so on.

Are you seriously saying that you don't know anything about what policies Bernie is pushing and how he's been on the correct side of history for decades (arranged the first Gay Pride March and created a trans mecca in Vermont in the 80s, fought for women's rights, healthcare, civil rights, and so on).
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#58  Postby Hermit » Apr 03, 2020 7:40 pm

WayOfTheDodo wrote:
Hermit wrote:
WayOfTheDodo wrote:Refusing to vote for both shitty candidates might cause the whole thing to go to shit so that one can rebuild it in a better way.

Supporters of that approach have been mentioned just a few hours ago.
Spinozasgalt wrote:We call them "accelerationists" in my neck of the online woods. And yes, it's very foolish.

In the 1930s the KPD said there is no point voting for anyone because the SPD was almost indistinguishable from the NSDAP, so may as well give the latter free rein. It was meant to accelerate the collapse of the capitalist system. That did not pan out as anticipated and at least 55 million people died prematurely as a result of the miscalculation.

Yes, and Hitler also drank water, so drinking water makes you a Nazi.

It does indeed.

I don't drink water. Fish fuck in it.

Bet you do, though. Nazi. :point: :tongue:
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#59  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 03, 2020 7:49 pm

WayOfTheDodo wrote:
Animavore wrote:The maxim about they only thing for evil men to takeover is for good men to do nothing [paraphrased] applies here.


Biden is evil too, though.


Crackpottery.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#60  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 03, 2020 7:51 pm

WayOfTheDodo wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
WayOfTheDodo wrote:No, they care about the policies, and what he does.

Which is what, Dodo? You ain't saying.


I don't understand why it's so hard for you to discuss this without resorting to personal attacks.



Apparently not hard at all, which is presumably why Cito's post contains no personal attacks. It was just that easy.
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