November USA 2020 election

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Re: November USA 2020 election

#21  Postby Animavore » Apr 01, 2020 6:28 am

I read this comment from today and I find it troubling.

Right now I'd rather Trump win, if Bernie won I'd rather him win. I just don't want the clear establishment and it's deep seated corruption to win with among other things it's near complete control of the media. At least Trump is a real person, not some groomed plucked sheep that is just a puppet. I always find it funny that the whole DMC hacking scandal focused on Trump over how the Democrats corruption was exposed

But I don't like either party but our system is so f**ked there's not reality anyone but them win


This is from a conversation in a comment section. There seems to be a segment of US citizens who just want to poke the establishment in the eye and to hell with the consequences. This particular person can't even see that Trump is everything Bernie isn't. He's literally the anti-Bernie. He also believes Trump isn't establishment when he is doing everything the Republicans want. How do you even get through to people like this?
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#22  Postby WayOfTheDodo » Apr 01, 2020 7:41 am

Macdoc wrote:Warren as VP and Treasury ....let the crooks tremble.

Image

I used to like Warren. I don't like her anymore after she decided to pull back from M4A, and after she decided to attack Bernie and smear and lie about him. She seems to be rather easy to trigger and manipulate as well (see Trump and Pocahontas, how she reacted to criticisms of M4A, and so on).

She has one thing - CFPB - which unfortunately just addresses the symptoms rather than the cause.

Warren has turned out to be a turncoat who resorts to watered-down policies that are mostly just weak copies of Bernie's policies.

I'll admit she might be able to do some good on financial issues. But I fear that, just like with the CFPB, there will be a lot of chest-thumping and bluster, and less substance and addressing the actual root causes.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#23  Postby WayOfTheDodo » Apr 01, 2020 7:44 am

Animavore wrote:I read this comment from today and I find it troubling.

Right now I'd rather Trump win, if Bernie won I'd rather him win. I just don't want the clear establishment and it's deep seated corruption to win with among other things it's near complete control of the media. At least Trump is a real person, not some groomed plucked sheep that is just a puppet. I always find it funny that the whole DMC hacking scandal focused on Trump over how the Democrats corruption was exposed

But I don't like either party but our system is so f**ked there's not reality anyone but them win

This is from a conversation in a comment section. There seems to be a segment of US citizens who just want to poke the establishment in the eye and to hell with the consequences. This particular person can't even see that Trump is everything Bernie isn't. He's literally the anti-Bernie. He also believes Trump isn't establishment when he is doing everything the Republicans want. How do you even get through to people like this?

That's the thing. More and more people are simply sick and tired of being screwed by the establishment, and they'd rather burn everything down and start over. People have finally had enough.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#24  Postby Animavore » Apr 01, 2020 7:48 am

WayOfTheDodo wrote:
Animavore wrote:I read this comment from today and I find it troubling.

Right now I'd rather Trump win, if Bernie won I'd rather him win. I just don't want the clear establishment and it's deep seated corruption to win with among other things it's near complete control of the media. At least Trump is a real person, not some groomed plucked sheep that is just a puppet. I always find it funny that the whole DMC hacking scandal focused on Trump over how the Democrats corruption was exposed

But I don't like either party but our system is so f**ked there's not reality anyone but them win

This is from a conversation in a comment section. There seems to be a segment of US citizens who just want to poke the establishment in the eye and to hell with the consequences. This particular person can't even see that Trump is everything Bernie isn't. He's literally the anti-Bernie. He also believes Trump isn't establishment when he is doing everything the Republicans want. How do you even get through to people like this?

That's the thing. More and more people are simply sick and tired of being screwed by the establishment, and they'd rather burn everything down and start over. People have finally had enough.


The height of stupidity.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#25  Postby WayOfTheDodo » Apr 01, 2020 7:51 am

Animavore wrote:
WayOfTheDodo wrote:
Animavore wrote:I read this comment from today and I find it troubling.

Right now I'd rather Trump win, if Bernie won I'd rather him win. I just don't want the clear establishment and it's deep seated corruption to win with among other things it's near complete control of the media. At least Trump is a real person, not some groomed plucked sheep that is just a puppet. I always find it funny that the whole DMC hacking scandal focused on Trump over how the Democrats corruption was exposed

But I don't like either party but our system is so f**ked there's not reality anyone but them win

This is from a conversation in a comment section. There seems to be a segment of US citizens who just want to poke the establishment in the eye and to hell with the consequences. This particular person can't even see that Trump is everything Bernie isn't. He's literally the anti-Bernie. He also believes Trump isn't establishment when he is doing everything the Republicans want. How do you even get through to people like this?

That's the thing. More and more people are simply sick and tired of being screwed by the establishment, and they'd rather burn everything down and start over. People have finally had enough.

The height of stupidity.

Or is the height of stupidity to keep voting for candidates who keep screwing you over? As long as people keep voting for corrupt Establishment Democrats, the corruption will never end. I mean, did you read about AOC's first days as an elected official? New members were basically trained by corporate CEOs who told them "don't rock the boat". The corruption is everywhere.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#26  Postby Animavore » Apr 01, 2020 7:58 am

WayOfTheDodo wrote:
Animavore wrote:
WayOfTheDodo wrote:
Animavore wrote:I read this comment from today and I find it troubling.


This is from a conversation in a comment section. There seems to be a segment of US citizens who just want to poke the establishment in the eye and to hell with the consequences. This particular person can't even see that Trump is everything Bernie isn't. He's literally the anti-Bernie. He also believes Trump isn't establishment when he is doing everything the Republicans want. How do you even get through to people like this?

That's the thing. More and more people are simply sick and tired of being screwed by the establishment, and they'd rather burn everything down and start over. People have finally had enough.

The height of stupidity.

Or is the height of stupidity to keep voting for candidates who keep screwing you over? As long as people keep voting for corrupt Establishment Democrats, the corruption will never end. I mean, did you read about AOC's first days as an elected official? New members were basically trained by corporate CEOs who told them "don't rock the boat". The corruption is everywhere.


Voting for Trump is more stupid. By the time he finishes the EPA will be destroyed. The Grand Canyon will be turned to Disney Land and much of the US suffering pollution, not to mention the effects on the rest of the globe. More immigrants and their children will suffer. Roe Vs Wade scrapped. More Trump-inspired attacks on minorities. More religious intrusion in the public sphere. Healthcare non-existent. Social security safety nets removed. More attacks on civil rights. More anti-privacy in the name of 'security'. Etc.

The amount of selfishness and privilege in people who can vote to watch the world burn is unbelievable. And yes, completely and utterly shoot-yourself-in-the-foot stupid.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#27  Postby Spinozasgalt » Apr 01, 2020 8:01 am

Animavore wrote:I read this comment from today and I find it troubling.

Right now I'd rather Trump win, if Bernie won I'd rather him win. I just don't want the clear establishment and it's deep seated corruption to win with among other things it's near complete control of the media. At least Trump is a real person, not some groomed plucked sheep that is just a puppet. I always find it funny that the whole DMC hacking scandal focused on Trump over how the Democrats corruption was exposed

But I don't like either party but our system is so f**ked there's not reality anyone but them win


This is from a conversation in a comment section. There seems to be a segment of US citizens who just want to poke the establishment in the eye and to hell with the consequences. This particular person can't even see that Trump is everything Bernie isn't. He's literally the anti-Bernie. He also believes Trump isn't establishment when he is doing everything the Republicans want. How do you even get through to people like this?

We call them "accelerationists" in my neck of the online woods. And yes, it's very foolish.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#28  Postby Animavore » Apr 01, 2020 8:10 am

It's more than foolish. These type of Bernie supporters would rather vote for someone who pushes America further from Bernie's vision, and making it harder to come back from (especially after one more Supreme Court pick). Even Bernie himself recognised this when he tried to urge his supporters to vote Hillary rather than let Trump win becuse he recognised very early the game plan from the Republicans. They've pretty much done everything he said they would do. Case in point; running up the debt by reducing tax then claiming they have to strip social security and healthcare to pay for it.

I don't think the type of Bernie supporter I quoted above even listen to what Bernie actually says. They just care he makes waves.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#29  Postby Spinozasgalt » Apr 01, 2020 8:20 am

Oh yeah, it's a gross view. Because, pithily, it's that whatever's bad is good. You'll find plenty of folks like these who claim to be left wing who'll cheer on Trump destroying things. Maybe because they think it'll hasten "the revolution". Or maybe because they just feel like it's getting revenge. And yeah, they probably do mostly just like Sanders for anti-establishment rhetoric rather than his constructive views. Same with Gabbard.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#30  Postby Cito di Pense » Apr 01, 2020 8:57 am

Spinozasgalt wrote:Oh yeah, it's a gross view. Because, pithily, it's that whatever's bad is good. You'll find plenty of folks like these who claim to be left wing who'll cheer on Trump destroying things. Maybe because they think it'll hasten "the revolution". Or maybe because they just feel like it's getting revenge. And yeah, they probably do mostly just like Sanders for anti-establishment rhetoric rather than his constructive views. Same with Gabbard.


You have to wonder how bad it really is (yet) for people who take positions like that. I'm sensing that they are not those who are being most hurt by the policies of Trumpism (yet). Cut off their access to the internet, and they'd be crying bitter tears. They'd also know whom to blame.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#31  Postby Cito di Pense » Apr 01, 2020 9:03 am

WayOfTheDodo wrote:
That's the thing. More and more people are simply sick and tired of being screwed by the establishment


Now would be a good time to confess how you, personally, are being screwed over. If corruption is affecting you, personally, that is. I mean, if you're just campaigning for those who, unlike yourself, are being screwed over, do you even know who they are? Don't forget, you're on the verge of saying Trumpism isn't screwing them over in a worse way.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#32  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 01, 2020 9:29 am

Animavore wrote:
The height of stupidity.



Yup: it's like an emulation of the fervent Trump supporters - it's my guy or everything can burn.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#33  Postby Cito di Pense » Apr 01, 2020 9:34 am

Spearthrower wrote:
Animavore wrote:
The height of stupidity.



Yup: it's like an emulation of the fervent Trump supporters - it's my guy or everything can burn.


Nope. With the latter, it's my guy AND everything can burn. What I wonder about are people who claim to be atheist/rationalist and still engage in this apocalyptic thinking. They should just go back to church, which is where they belong.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#34  Postby Tero » Apr 01, 2020 11:10 am

Biden is not demented. His speech problems go back decades. He used to stutter. Biden will do fine in a debate. Plus, some 50 000 coronavirus patients dying in Florida gets Trump that many fewer old people votes. :muahaha:
How American politics goes
1 Republicans cut tax, let everything run down to barely working...8 years
2 Democrats fix public spending to normal...8 years
Rinse, repeat.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#35  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 01, 2020 2:05 pm

Tero wrote:Biden is not demented.


Demented, no... but apparent symptoms suggest he may be having some problems with senility.


Tero wrote:Plus, some 50 000 coronavirus patients dying in Florida gets Trump that many fewer old people votes. :muahaha:


:what:
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#36  Postby Cito di Pense » Apr 01, 2020 3:09 pm

Spearthrower wrote:
Tero wrote:Biden is not demented.


Demented, no... but apparent symptoms suggest he may be having some problems with senility.


Formerly, it was simply not possible for the general public to have access to every verbal misstep made publicly by major political figures. We knew it was happening with Reagan, for example, but only got to see some of it.

One would think that the politicians themselves would be aware of this. I think they just accept it. What's the alternative?
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#37  Postby WayOfTheDodo » Apr 01, 2020 3:36 pm

Animavore wrote:
WayOfTheDodo wrote:
Animavore wrote:
WayOfTheDodo wrote:
That's the thing. More and more people are simply sick and tired of being screwed by the establishment, and they'd rather burn everything down and start over. People have finally had enough.

The height of stupidity.

Or is the height of stupidity to keep voting for candidates who keep screwing you over? As long as people keep voting for corrupt Establishment Democrats, the corruption will never end. I mean, did you read about AOC's first days as an elected official? New members were basically trained by corporate CEOs who told them "don't rock the boat". The corruption is everywhere.


Voting for Trump is more stupid. By the time he finishes the EPA will be destroyed. The Grand Canyon will be turned to Disney Land and much of the US suffering pollution, not to mention the effects on the rest of the globe. More immigrants and their children will suffer. Roe Vs Wade scrapped. More Trump-inspired attacks on minorities. More religious intrusion in the public sphere. Healthcare non-existent. Social security safety nets removed. More attacks on civil rights. More anti-privacy in the name of 'security'. Etc.

The amount of selfishness and privilege in people who can vote to watch the world burn is unbelievable. And yes, completely and utterly shoot-yourself-in-the-foot stupid.

The alternative to not voting for Biden isn't voting for Trump.

You can try to lecture people all you want. All they see is that they are being screwed no matter who's in charge. Why would they bother to vote when it's going to be the same crap regardless of who's in charge? They tried voting for the corrupt Establishment Democrat many times. It didn't work out for them. They likely see it as stupid to do something which is just going to keep screwing them.

Refusing to vote for both shitty candidates might cause the whole thing to go to shit so that one can rebuild it in a better way.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#38  Postby WayOfTheDodo » Apr 01, 2020 3:39 pm

Animavore wrote:It's more than foolish. These type of Bernie supporters would rather vote for someone who pushes America further from Bernie's vision, and making it harder to come back from (especially after one more Supreme Court pick). Even Bernie himself recognised this when he tried to urge his supporters to vote Hillary rather than let Trump win becuse he recognised very early the game plan from the Republicans. They've pretty much done everything he said they would do. Case in point; running up the debt by reducing tax then claiming they have to strip social security and healthcare to pay for it.

Establishment Democrats have been pushing America further from Bernie's vision for decades. The whole reason President Trump exists in the first place is that Establishment Democrats have done jack shit for regular working people.

Don't blame voters for the uselessness of corrupt politicians and their allies in the business and media communities.

I don't think the type of Bernie supporter I quoted above even listen to what Bernie actually says. They just care he makes waves.

No, they care about the policies, and what he does. Saying change is needed and then propping up a corrupt shithead against another corrupt shithead means that actions do not necessarily match the words.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#39  Postby WayOfTheDodo » Apr 01, 2020 3:40 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
WayOfTheDodo wrote:
That's the thing. More and more people are simply sick and tired of being screwed by the establishment

Now would be a good time to confess how you, personally, are being screwed over. If corruption is affecting you, personally, that is. I mean, if you're just campaigning for those who, unlike yourself, are being screwed over, do you even know who they are? Don't forget, you're on the verge of saying Trumpism isn't screwing them over in a worse way.

I'm just explaining how a lot of people think these days.
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Re: November USA 2020 election

#40  Postby WayOfTheDodo » Apr 01, 2020 3:43 pm

Tero wrote:Biden is not demented. His speech problems go back decades. He used to stutter. Biden will do fine in a debate. Plus, some 50 000 coronavirus patients dying in Florida gets Trump that many fewer old people votes. :muahaha:

Biden thinking he's running for senate is not a stutter.

Biden forgetting Obama's name is not a stutter.

Biden forgetting the very sentence he tried to cite from the Declaration of Independence is not a stutter.

Biden losing self control and doing things like attacking and threatening a factory worker who confronted him on gun control is not a stutter.

Stop making excuses for an old man who has clearly started developing signs of dementia.
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