President Trump Watch.

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Re: President Trump Watch.

#19961  Postby Mike_L » Aug 19, 2020 3:07 pm

InformationClearingHouse is truth. RT.com is truth.

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Re: President Trump Watch.

#19962  Postby SafeAsMilk » Aug 19, 2020 3:17 pm

Mike_L wrote:InformationClearingHouse is truth. RT.com is truth.

Yes, I know you think so. Making fun of how stupid it is doesn't make it any less stupid.
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Re: President Trump Watch.

#19963  Postby Mike_L » Aug 19, 2020 3:30 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:
Mike_L wrote:InformationClearingHouse is truth. RT.com is truth.

Yes, I know you think so. Making fun of how stupid it is doesn't make it any less stupid.

I make fun of it because I don't think so. I've seen a lot of crap on RT.com... and even more crap on InformationClearingHouse... (though not nearly as much as I've seen on CNN). Each article can be (and should be) assessed on its own merits (or lack thereof).
The two to which I've recently linked are fact-based. There's a narrative slant (of course there is), but the essential facts are testable... and turn out to be perfectly sound...
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Re: President Trump Watch.

#19964  Postby SafeAsMilk » Aug 19, 2020 3:36 pm

Mike_L wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
Mike_L wrote:InformationClearingHouse is truth. RT.com is truth.

Yes, I know you think so. Making fun of how stupid it is doesn't make it any less stupid.

I make fun of it because I don't think so.

Then you might want to stop posting as if you do.

I've seen a lot of crap on RT.com... and even more crap on InformationClearingHouse... (though not nearly as much as I've seen on CNN). Each article can be (and should be) assessed on its own merits (or lack thereof).
The two to which I've recently linked are fact-based.

They're opinion pieces, pure and simple, like everything you post to feebly support your agenda.


There's a narrative slant (of course there is),

Well yes, when you choose sources based entirely around narrative slant, of course there is. You can laugh about how that reflects on your posting behavior, but it doesn't change the fact.

but the essential facts are testable... and turn out to be perfectly sound...

So you always claim, but never show.
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Re: President Trump Watch.

#19965  Postby Mike_L » Aug 19, 2020 3:56 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:
Mike_L wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
Mike_L wrote:InformationClearingHouse is truth. RT.com is truth.

Yes, I know you think so. Making fun of how stupid it is doesn't make it any less stupid.

I make fun of it because I don't think so.

Then you might want to stop posting as if you do.

If you can't tell which is joking and which is sincere, that's your problem.

but the essential facts are testable... and turn out to be perfectly sound...


So you always claim, but never show.

It's shown in the article ('Six Lies...")
Here's just one example: Shawn Henry also testified that CrowdStrike never had any evidence the data was actually “exfiltrated,” i.e. stolen from the DNC servers.
That's what the "opinion pieces" of RT.com and Ray McGovern have been saying since 2016, while the 'trustworthy media' such as NYT and CNN, etc. have stated the "hacking" as a fact all along.
You see, SaM... all you have to do is go to the right opinion pieces... the ones that aren't mouthpieces of the DNC.
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Re: President Trump Watch.

#19966  Postby newolder » Aug 19, 2020 4:00 pm

Mike_L wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
Mike_L wrote:InformationClearingHouse is truth. RT.com is truth.

Yes, I know you think so. Making fun of how stupid it is doesn't make it any less stupid.

I make fun of it because I don't think so. I've seen a lot of crap on RT.com... and even more crap on InformationClearingHouse... (though not nearly as much as I've seen on CNN). Each article can be (and should be) assessed on its own merits (or lack thereof).
The two to which I've recently linked are fact-based. There's a narrative slant (of course there is), but the essential facts are testable... and turn out to be perfectly sound...


Which "fact" have you tested? The date of publication? :nono:
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Re: President Trump Watch.

#19967  Postby Tortured_Genius » Aug 19, 2020 4:01 pm

OlivierK wrote:
felltoearth wrote:If this is the Senate’s own report, how could they not impeach?

Because those that voted against impeachment are corrupt, self-serving weasels.


I demand you take that back! It's an insult to weasels everywhere.

On a related note I would like to take this opportunity to apologise to all shit-gibbons, and not just the orange ones, for any offence I may have caused by comparing them with the current president of the USA.
None are so hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. - Goethe
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Re: President Trump Watch.

#19968  Postby SafeAsMilk » Aug 19, 2020 4:09 pm

Mike_L wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
Mike_L wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
Yes, I know you think so. Making fun of how stupid it is doesn't make it any less stupid.

I make fun of it because I don't think so.

Then you might want to stop posting as if you do.

If you can't tell which is joking and which is sincere, that's your problem.

I can tell just fine. That you suck at trying to joke your way out of it is your problem.

but the essential facts are testable... and turn out to be perfectly sound...


So you always claim, but never show.

It's shown claimed in the article ('Six Lies...")

FIFY

Here's just one example: Shawn Henry also testified that CrowdStrike never had any evidence the data was actually “exfiltrated,” i.e. stolen from the DNC servers.

Funny, no actual quote, no context. I'm shocked! Well, I suppose I'll just have to take your opinion piece's opinion about what was being said, it's surely complete and all angles covered.

That's what the "opinion pieces"

No need for the scare quotes, I'll call a spade a spade even if you won't.

of RT.com and Ray McGovern have been saying since 2016, while the 'trustworthy media' such as NYT and CNN, etc. have stated the "hacking" as a fact all along.
You see, SaM... all you have to do is go to the right opinion pieces... the ones that aren't mouthpieces of the DNC.

Yes, the real way is to go is to trust to Putin mouthpieces and then make jokes as if that's not exactly what you're doing.
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Re: President Trump Watch.

#19969  Postby Mike_L » Aug 19, 2020 4:31 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:Funny, no actual quote, no context. I'm shocked! Well, I suppose I'll just have to take your opinion piece's opinion about what was being said, it's surely complete and all angles covered.

Quote and context are both in the article...
Lie #1: Russia hacked the DNC
The infamous US intelligence community assessment (ICA) of January 2017, and the Senate Intelligence Committee report based on it – as well as ‘analysis’ by actual election meddlers, among others – all claimed that the Russian government and President Vladimir Putin personally were behind the “hack” and publication of DNC documents. These have always been assertions, and no evidence was ever provided.
Last week’s declassification of 50+ interviews in the probe conducted by the House Intelligence Committee revealed that the cybersecurity firm CrowdStrike, brought in by the DNC lawyers to fix the “hack,” did not have evidence either.

CrowdStrike’s president, ex-FBI official Shawn Henry, testified that they “saw activity that we believed was consistent with activity we'd seen previously and had associated with the Russian Government.”
In the same testimony, Henry also testified that CrowdStrike never had any evidence the data was actually “exfiltrated,” i.e. stolen from the DNC servers.
CrowdStrike’s feelings about the hack remain the only “evidence” so far, since the FBI never asked them or the DNC for the actual server, as Henry also confirmed.

--
https://www.rt.com/usa/488488-biggest-lies-of-russiagate/

SafeAsMilk wrote:
Yes, the real way is to go is to trust to Putin mouthpieces and then make jokes as if that's not exactly what you're doing.

The jokes don't undermine the source. Irrespective of whether or not a joke is attached, the Putin mouthpiece is more reliable than the DNC mouthpiece... as shown above.
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Re: President Trump Watch.

#19970  Postby SafeAsMilk » Aug 19, 2020 4:49 pm

Mike_L wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:Funny, no actual quote, no context. I'm shocked! Well, I suppose I'll just have to take your opinion piece's opinion about what was being said, it's surely complete and all angles covered.

Quote and context are both in the article...

Unsurprisingly, there is no actual quote or context in what you've posted to support the claim being made, just still more breathless editorializing without anything to support them. You know people can read, right?

[color=#800000]Lie #1: Russia hacked the DNC
The infamous US intelligence community assessment (ICA) of January 2017, and the Senate Intelligence Committee report based on it – as well as ‘analysis’ by actual election meddlers, among others – all claimed that the Russian government and President Vladimir Putin personally were behind the “hack” and publication of DNC documents. These have always been assertions, and no evidence was ever provided.

Breathless editorializing...

Last week’s declassification of 50+ interviews in the probe conducted by the House Intelligence Committee revealed that the cybersecurity firm CrowdStrike, brought in by the DNC lawyers to fix the “hack,” did not have evidence either.

Breathless editorializing...

CrowdStrike’s president, ex-FBI official Shawn Henry, testified that they “saw activity that we believed was consistent with activity we'd seen previously and had associated with the Russian Government.”

Hey look, an actual full sentence quoted! Hm, doesn't seem to support the breathless editorializing...

In the same testimony, Henry also testified that CrowdStrike never had any evidence the data was actually “exfiltrated,” i.e. stolen from the DNC servers.

Hm, no full quote and no context. Shocking!

CrowdStrike’s feelings about the hack remain the only “evidence” so far, since the FBI never asked them or the DNC for the actual server, as Henry also confirmed.

...aaaand back to the breathless editorializing :yawn:

SafeAsMilk wrote:
Yes, the real way is to go is to trust to Putin mouthpieces and then make jokes as if that's not exactly what you're doing.

The jokes don't undermine the source. Irrespective of whether or not a joke is attached, the Putin mouthpiece is more reliable than the DNC mouthpiece... as shown above.

It shows nothing of the sort. All you've shown is that you like claims when they suit you.
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Re: President Trump Watch.

#19971  Postby Mike_L » Aug 19, 2020 5:05 pm

He quotes Shawn Henry's exact words. He provides the context. He gives you exactly what you initially said wasn't there. So now you have to call it "breathless editorializing".
:roll:
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Re: President Trump Watch.

#19972  Postby felltoearth » Aug 19, 2020 5:19 pm

Some words were provided. Many more were seemingly paraphrased without citation. Do you have a link to the original testimony?
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Re: President Trump Watch.

#19973  Postby SafeAsMilk » Aug 19, 2020 5:26 pm

Mike_L wrote:He quotes Shawn Henry's exact words.

Well word, assuming "exfiltrated" is an actual quote.

He provides the context.

"The report came out to day and boy does it look BAD!" is not a context :lol:

He gives you exactly what you initially said wasn't there. So now you have to call it "breathless editorializing".
:roll:

If you can't do better than your average trollbot, then better hang it up.
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Re: President Trump Watch.

#19974  Postby Mike_L » Aug 19, 2020 5:33 pm

This is the pdf file to which Malic links (The link is in the body of the text, on the RT.com page).
https://intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/sh21.pdf

Here's a snapshot of the discussion, as provided by Aaron Maté on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1258601813084864514

Under questioning, Henry reveals that there's only "circumstantial evidence" of exfiltration (hacking). He even goes on to say:
"...but no evidence that they were actually exfiltrated".

Yet mainstream media in the US has been stating (for more than three years) the "hacking" by the Kremlin as a fact.
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Re: President Trump Watch.

#19975  Postby felltoearth » Aug 19, 2020 6:04 pm

Mike_L wrote:This is the pdf file to which Malic links (The link is in the body of the text, on the RT.com page).
https://intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/sh21.pdf

Here's a snapshot of the discussion, as provided by Aaron Maté on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1258601813084864514

Under questioning, Henry reveals that there's only "circumstantial evidence" of exfiltration (hacking). He even goes on to say:
"...but no evidence that they were actually exfiltrated".

Yet mainstream media in the US has been stating (for more than three years) the "hacking" by the Kremlin as a fact.


No that’s not what was said at all

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They know data was “exfiltratred” (clearly it was or else how else would Wikileaks have gotten it), they know who set up the exfiltration, they just don’t have “video” of it leaving. It’s like knowing who left the door unlocked to the jewelry store, and knowing where the jewelry ended up but no actual footage of the jewelry leaving the store.
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Re: President Trump Watch.

#19976  Postby Mike_L » Aug 19, 2020 6:27 pm

The alternative explanation of how Wikileaks got the information has long been known... that it was an inside job, with the files copied onto a memory stick.

‘Zero evidence’ that Russia hacked DNC, says NSA whistleblower

8 Nov, 2017

NSA whistleblower William Binney spoke to RT about his recent meeting with CIA director Mike Pompeo, where they discussed accusations that Russia meddled in 2016 US presidential election by hacking the Democrats.
In an interview with RT America host Ed Schultz on Wednesday, Binney said tests have “clearly showed” the DNC was not hacked by Russia before the 2016 presidential election, but that the data was downloaded locally.

Binney met with CIA director Mike Pompeo on Wednesday to review analysis by the Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS), which challenged the notion that the Democratic National Committee (DNC) was hacked by Russia. In a letter to President Donald Trump, the group claims the “data was leaked (not hacked) by a person with physical access to DNC computers.”

After analyzing the data, VIPS concluded that the transfer simply does not support the claim the documents were hacked by Russian agents, as leaders of the US intelligence community claimed in a January report.
...

...
The approximately 16GB of data was downloaded in two bursts, totaling 87 seconds, with a 12-minute pause between them.

“It had to be done locally,” Binney told RT America.
...

...
If the intelligence community had some factual evidence proving Russian hacking, that would be another matter, the NSA whistleblower said, but “so far they’ve produced nothing.”
...

Full article at:
https://www.rt.com/usa/409269-binney-cia-dnc-hack-meeting/

The revelations by Henry (that there's nothing but "circumstantial evidence" of a hack) serve only to reinforce Binney's statements.
Russia is blamed (in the absence of any evidence) because it is politically expedient to do so.
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Re: President Trump Watch.

#19977  Postby felltoearth » Aug 19, 2020 7:14 pm

That whole story has been debunked, to the point that Binney has even changed his tune.

As 'DNC Hacked Itself' Conspiracy Theory Collapses, Key Backer Of Claim Exposed As UK Troll | Techdirt
One year later and The Nation's original theory isn't looking so hot, with even many of the original VIPS supporters running in the opposite direction, including Binney:
"A month after visiting CIA headquarters, Binney came to Britain. After re-examining the data in Guccifer 2.0 files thoroughly with the author of this article, Binney changed his mind. He said there was “no evidence to prove where the download/copy was done”. The Guccifer 2.0 files analysed by Leonard’s g-2.space were “manipulated”, he said, and a “fabrication”.
But the damage was done, and the Brietbart, Bloomberg, Nation and other reports remain online, still widely circulated as "evidence" that the DNC hacked itself. Amusingly, many of the same people (quite justly) railing against the over-reliance on anonymous sources in stories supporting Russian involvement in the hack saw no problem amplifying this dubious report, despite the warnings that the report was leaning largely on extremely dubious, anonymous experts.


Of course, if your nose is in RT all day I can see how you would have missed that.
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Re: President Trump Watch.

#19978  Postby felltoearth » Aug 19, 2020 7:17 pm

Additionally, to say Binney is an NSA Whistleblower is somewhat dishonest as is seems to represent that he was, and still is, part of the NSA at the time of the hack. Binney retired in 2001.
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Re: President Trump Watch.

#19979  Postby Mike_L » Aug 19, 2020 7:27 pm

Binney might yet reexamine his original thesis now that the "hack" claim is looking so threadbare.
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Re: President Trump Watch.

#19980  Postby SafeAsMilk » Aug 19, 2020 7:35 pm

Mike_L wrote:Binney might yet reexamine his original thesis now that the "hack" claim is looking so threadbare.

Not so threadbare as your propaganda peddling, apparently :lol:
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