Rapist given light sentence

to avoid "severe impact" on him

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Re: Rapist given light sentence

#461  Postby zulumoose » Dec 07, 2017 12:20 pm

So you seriously can't say a word about the conduct of a victim without having to remove blame from the perpetrator?

I don't understand that kind of thinking at all. See my minefield example a few posts up.
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Re: Rapist given light sentence

#462  Postby Agi Hammerthief » Dec 07, 2017 12:23 pm

Rachel Bronwyn wrote:You can't say "You're 100% not at fault but you shouldn't have been out drinking/alone/gone home with that person" without blaming the victim for something. It is in no way helpful. It only serves to shame the victim.

so how do you get potential victims to pay more attention to what risk they expose themselves to?
"sorry, could have told ya not to do it, but that would have been blaming past victims, so I didn't"
isn't all that helpful either.
* my (modified) emphasis ( or 'interpretation' )

when you chop off your neighbours head and use it as a vase, you can call it 'culture'.
it's called civilisation is when this gets you jailed for the rest of your live.
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Re: Rapist given light sentence

#463  Postby Fallible » Dec 07, 2017 12:30 pm

Saying ‘you shouldn’t have...’ doesn’t necessarily involve blaming the victim anyway. It’s just a way of acknowledging that a certain course of action was not healthy for or helpful to oneself. I shouldn’t have got myself involved in the latest spat between my mum and sister. I don’t blame myself for having done so, but I recognise it did not contribute towards my mental well-being.
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Re: Rapist given light sentence

#464  Postby Rachel Bronwyn » Dec 07, 2017 12:45 pm

And that's called misrepresentation.

Just about all of us manage to tell our children we don't want them to do certain things because there are bad people who might take advantage of them and we desperately don't want to see them hurt. Amazingly, teaching kids people are shit is possible without telling them they're dumb or stupid or foolish if they get assaulted.

zulumoose wrote:So you seriously can't say a word about the conduct of a victim without having to remove blame from the perpetrator?

I don't understand that kind of thinking at all. See my minefield example a few posts up.


How is a minefield comparable to a human making the conscious decision to rape someone? A minefield is inherently dangerous. People chose whether to be dangerous or not. There is no other player in the scenario who could have prevented the scenario ending in someone being harmed because there is no other person involved when one person dicks around in a minefield.

Yes, you're an asshole if your response to someone getting assaulted is to comment on their conduct. It serves no purpose whatsoever except to criticise someone who's just been assaulted by no fault of their own, making them less likely to come forward about it and more likely to blame themselves. It also redirects the focus to the actions of the victim when THERE'S SOMEONE ELSE WHO CHOSE TO COMMIT RAPE YOU COULD BE CRITICISING but what really ought to be discussed is how she want alone at night! Did no one ever tell her how foolish that it?

People who get assaulted didn't engage in inherently dangerous behaviour by going out alone or having a couple drinks or trusting their friend not to hurt them. Someone else chose to become a danger to them in a situation that, prior to them making that decision, wasn't dangerous at all.

You are the problem if, in spite of someone choosing to commit rape, you're commenting on the "dangerous" behaviour their victim engaged in. Victims of assault should never be made to feel shame for what was done to them. Any "helpful" advice you think you're giving? Isn't. You're just criticising them in light of assault by telling them things they already know.
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Re: Rapist given light sentence

#465  Postby Fallible » Dec 07, 2017 12:54 pm

Rachel Bronwyn wrote:And that's called misrepresentation.

Just about all of us manage to tell our children we don't want them to do certain things because there are bad people who might take advantage of them and we desperately don't want to see them hurt. Amazingly, teaching kids people are shit is possible without telling them they're dumb or stupid or foolish if they get assaulted.


Speaking of misrepresentation...I mean the literal content of my entire fucking post was about how ‘you shouldn’t have...’ is NOT necessarily about blaming someone, let alone about calling them dumb or stupid or foolish. It’s often the OPPOSITE of that, in that it concerns the individual’s well-being. For example, you shouldn’t have just eaten three bags of monster munch in a row because they are very bad for you and such actions may lead to your demise, and that would be the ultimate bad for you.
John Grant wrote:They say 'let go, let go, let go, you must learn to let go'.
If I hear that fucking phrase again, this baby's gonna blow
Into a million itsy bitsy tiny pieces, don't you know,
Just like my favourite scene in Scanners .
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Re: Rapist given light sentence

#466  Postby zulumoose » Dec 07, 2017 12:57 pm

How is a minefield comparable to a human making the conscious decision to rape someone? A minefield is inherently dangerous. People chose whether to be dangerous or not. There is no other player in the scenario who could have prevented the scenario ending in someone being harmed because there is no other person involved when one person dicks around in a minefield.


My point is that they are two separate things. Conduct of perpetrator and victim do not remove any blame from each other (except if there is a misunderstanding created)

The person who took a known risk is responsible for the amount of risk they engaged in. If not known they should be made aware, obviously the sooner the better, and obviously not if it is counterproductive or already fully known. This has nothing to do with removing blame from someone who harms them.

The person who wilfully creates the danger, is entirely responsible for what they have done, regardless of how many people choose to act in a way that increases their exposure to that danger.

Separate items. Why people cannot separate them is beyond me.
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Re: Rapist given light sentence

#467  Postby Macdoc » Dec 07, 2017 2:17 pm

The person who wilfully creates the danger, is entirely responsible for what they have done


Courts have found that those that facilitate dangerous behaviour ....ie continuing to serve drinks to already drunk person and not taking steps to prevent them driving share responsibility for any consequences that arise.
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Re: Rapist given light sentence

#468  Postby Agi Hammerthief » Dec 07, 2017 2:44 pm

Macdoc wrote:
The person who wilfully creates the danger, is entirely responsible for what they have done


Courts have found that those that facilitate dangerous behaviour ....ie continuing to serve drinks to already drunk person and not taking steps to prevent them driving share responsibility for any consequences that arise.

they'd wilfully create danger by serving more drinks, therefore responsibility.
* my (modified) emphasis ( or 'interpretation' )

when you chop off your neighbours head and use it as a vase, you can call it 'culture'.
it's called civilisation is when this gets you jailed for the rest of your live.
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