Republican Watch

People who say "Democrats are as bad as Republicans" are almost as bad as Republicans.

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Re: Republican Watch

#1601  Postby Alan C » Dec 07, 2020 11:27 pm

So, senate Repuglies invite an anti-vaccination nut job to testify in relation to the covid vaccines?!
Are they that desperate to sabotage the incoming administration so as to torpedo measures needed to save lives?
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Re: Republican Watch

#1602  Postby Alan C » Dec 07, 2020 11:37 pm

Also, Ron DeSantis should DIAF.
Lose it - it means go crazy, nuts, insane, bonzo, no longer in possession of one's faculties, three fries short of a happy meal, WACKO!! - Jack O'Neill
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Re: Republican Watch

#1603  Postby Tortured_Genius » Dec 08, 2020 12:01 am

Alan C wrote:Are they that desperate to sabotage the incoming administration so as to torpedo measures needed to save lives?


Yes. Yes they are.
None are so hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. - Goethe
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Re: Republican Watch

#1604  Postby Cito di Pense » Dec 08, 2020 6:12 am

Tortured_Genius wrote:
Alan C wrote:Are they that desperate to sabotage the incoming administration so as to torpedo measures needed to save lives?


Yes. Yes they are.


The opinion is frequently expressed that the core/base of the Republican party is now a cult of personality. That it's a death cult should surprise no one who purports to be politically astute. I think what the core cultists are hoping for is that the shooting will start sooner, rather than later. US Republicanism is an ideology of grievance against whomever has diminished its cultural relevance. Shooting is one solution to that, but political argumentation is not. Sadly, the extreme left in the US has also become an ideology of grievance that the Republican death cult can push back against as that which has diminished its cultural relevance. Republican extremists don't get much traction against the few centrists that support either party, but leftists are as happy to attack the center as they are to attack the Republican extremists and white grievance in general. Leftist grievance is in that sense more more inclusive in terms of what it designates as its enemies. Let's see where that all leads. Something extreme, is my guess.
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Re: Republican Watch

#1605  Postby Tortured_Genius » Dec 08, 2020 7:29 am

Who do you mean by the "extreme left" here?

I'm genuinely curious since we just don't see them from over the other side of the Atlantic - the only American "leftists" appear to be right of centre social democrats from a European perspective.

I suspect this is an artifact of the weird skewing of US politics to the right since, well, forever. To me an extreme leftist would be a member of the Worker's Revolutionary Party or Communist Party, not a member of the Labour Party (the likes of Jeremy Corbyn would be on the far left of the party). The Democrats would be somewhere on the centre-right of European politics. I can't think of a European equivalent of the Republican party, batshit-insane not being regarded as a political position and beyond that they mainly seem to stand against things rather than "for" anything..

In the end I suppose it's all relative, but the political polarisation in the USA seems to be to almost entirely to the right of the political spectrum. If it were on both "sides" I'd expect to see the emergence of the American Socialist Worker's Party and the like.
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Re: Republican Watch

#1606  Postby Cito di Pense » Dec 08, 2020 8:47 am

Tortured_Genius wrote:Who do you mean by the "extreme left" here?

I'm genuinely curious since we just don't see them from over the other side of the Atlantic - the only American "leftists" appear to be right of centre social democrats from a European perspective.

I suspect this is an artifact of the weird skewing of US politics to the right since, well, forever. To me an extreme leftist would be a member of the Worker's Revolutionary Party or Communist Party, not a member of the Labour Party (the likes of Jeremy Corbyn would be on the far left of the party). The Democrats would be somewhere on the centre-right of European politics. I can't think of a European equivalent of the Republican party, batshit-insane not being regarded as a political position and beyond that they mainly seem to stand against things rather than "for" anything..

In the end I suppose it's all relative, but the political polarisation in the USA seems to be to almost entirely to the right of the political spectrum. If it were on both "sides" I'd expect to see the emergence of the American Socialist Worker's Party and the like.


Fair enough, TG. It could be that we can only term as "extreme" those who advocate overthrow and replacement of the current system of government by force and violence, and that mainly consists of right wing extremists, if Trump's broad support is taken at face value. If you've decided that 'socialism' and legislated wealth re-distribution is not extreme relative to the system now in place in the US, then you don't understand the system now in place. In other words, anything "right and proper" (i.e., just) cannot be considered extreme, definitionally. The current system would have to be replaced, and those legislators in the US considered 'leftists' heretofore only advocate. No, mere advocacy of more socialist systems is not 'extreme'. Nor does it accomplish change. The US two party system of electing legislators would have to go, and that means a revolution. On the right, it means autocracy, on the left, who knows?

European working class people are increasingly supportive of right-wing programs, or haven't you noticed. Your personal politics does not normalize anything. The political right in Europe is not sorry for the socialist advantages they have, definitely including right wing politics in the UK. Time will tell whether that can be maintained. Just getting rid of immigrants and a return to national economic sovereignty would suit them just fine. Even in EU nations that have not emplaced authoritarian governments, right wing movements are far from invisible. Give it time, TG, give it time. There are just too many fucking people for justice to be done.
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Re: Republican Watch

#1607  Postby Hermit » Dec 08, 2020 10:41 am

There is no extreme left in the US. There never was. Some previous presidents could be described as moderate social democrats, but the Overton Window pretty much nixed the chances of another social democrat being elected any time soon. That's why the US can feel lucky with getting neoliberal presidents whenever the Democrats win ever since Bill Clinton or before.

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Re: Republican Watch

#1608  Postby Cito di Pense » Dec 08, 2020 11:39 am

Hermit wrote:There is no extreme left in the US.


Or anywhere else, for that matter. Go far enough left, and see where you end up. The extreme left in the US is as far left as anyone goes left in the US. Tearing down statues of Confederate generals. Making sure transgender people can choose their own pronouns. The way to get leftward of that is in theater or in literature.

I don't know what Bernie Sanders is smoking. There's nothing wrong with his ideas except that nobody has any idea how to implement them and only a few more than that have any desire to. Tons of people in the US just scraping by want no share of Mark Zuckerberg's stuff. What they want more is to drag everyone down to their level, which is why they chose Trump. If Sanders wants to redistribute wealth from the top 1%, he needs a way to implement the process. Simply advocating, which is what he's good at, doesn't get the job done.

Hermit wrote:That's why the US can feel lucky with getting neoliberal presidents whenever the Democrats win ever since Bill Clinton or before.


It's not luck. That's how prosperous scores of millions of US households are and how insulated from anyone else's needs they are. Donald Trump was just very nearly elected to a second (but perhaps not final) term. One reason he wasn't is because of stuff like this:

https://www.npr.org/2020/12/08/94324210 ... 0-election
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Re: Republican Watch

#1609  Postby Hermit » Dec 08, 2020 12:20 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
Hermit wrote:There is no extreme left in the US.

Or anywhere else, for that matter.

Agreed.

Cito di Pense wrote:The extreme left in the US is as far left as anyone goes left in the US.

Which is not extreme. Just call it the left.

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Re: Republican Watch

#1610  Postby Cito di Pense » Dec 08, 2020 4:14 pm

Hermit wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:The extreme left in the US is as far left as anyone goes left in the US.

Which is not extreme. Just call it the left.


That's not the way the (nominally) Republican base sees it, which is the perception that counts. Can we just forget about figurehead national-level politicians for a moment or two? That's not where the perceptions of extremism come from, even though national politicians are one destination for them. You purport to be a much more serious student of culture than I am, and you just don't seem to have figured this one out.

The cultural messages churned out in US-made films, popular music, and TV series aren't by and large designed with red state attitudes in mind, but that's how the left gets its reputation for being 'extreme'. What's extreme is how that dominates popular culture on and off the coasts. To find stuff that base can identify with, there's always YT, FB, Twitter and more. Mainstream cultural messaging on race, gender role and sexual equality is alien to the Republican base, although I'm sure it generates plenty of a certain kind of forced laughter. Those on the left take it for granted that this message is simply right and proper, rather than extreme in its pervasiveness in media. Politics is perception, and that messaging has obviously informed lots of folks about the ways in which that stuff is right and proper and just. Not that this is necessarily wrong, but don't let that cloud your view of how it might be perceived to be extreme.

Red state attitudes are not catered to by the media, because they wouldn't generate enough revenue even if pandered to. Why blame some mysterious unidentified force that is distorting perception of Democrat politicians when there's something evident. I've heard we're supposed to privilege evidence over pure belief around here.
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Re: Republican Watch

#1611  Postby Hermit » Dec 08, 2020 5:09 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
Hermit wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:The extreme left in the US is as far left as anyone goes left in the US.

Which is not extreme. Just call it the left.

That's not the way the (nominally) Republican base sees it...

Of course not. Neither of us is discussing this with the (nominally) Republican base, though. Let it label sleepy Joe a communist. I know better than to regard even the left wing within the Democratic party as "the extreme left", and so should you.
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Re: Republican Watch

#1612  Postby The_Piper » Dec 08, 2020 6:24 pm

There are individuals who are extreme left in this country, plenty of them. But they are not organized into any group and have absolutely zero political power. They spend a lot of energy fighting with each other too.
I wouldn't call statue topplers extreme left, necessarily. Confederate statues should have no place in modern America. Unfortunately we have scores of people who wish harm and even death upon people who do that. Or against people who protest police brutality. See Kyle Rittenhouse and the massive support for that little murderer twerp.
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Re: Republican Watch

#1613  Postby Cito di Pense » Dec 08, 2020 7:04 pm

Hermit wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
Hermit wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:The extreme left in the US is as far left as anyone goes left in the US.

Which is not extreme. Just call it the left.

That's not the way the (nominally) Republican base sees it...

Of course not. Neither of us is discussing this with the (nominally) Republican base, though. Let it label sleepy Joe a communist. I know better than to regard even the left wing within the Democratic party as "the extreme left", and so should you.


On the basis of that cartoon you posted, how about if I regard it as "the so-called left"? There's a point in US politics where you can't get any farther left, because nobody wishes you were there. That's the extreme, then. Some sort of financial ordeal may be able to move the goalposts over toward where the bluebird sings to the lemonade springs in the Big Rock Candy Mountain.

Nobody in the US trusts modern politicians to reconstitute social democracy as it was in the 1930s. Not even Bernie Sanders can be trusted to do more than talk a good line. I don't dislike Sanders, but he reminds be a bit too much of one or another of my rich uncles. You can help yourself, but don't take too much.
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Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Republican Watch

#1614  Postby Seabass » Dec 20, 2020 7:15 am

The Texas GOP Really Thinks Planned Parenthood Works With Satanists


The end of 2020 is in sight, which apparently means it’s time for Texas Republicans to accuse Planned Parenthood of working hand in hand with supporters of the devil.

In a statement on Thursday, the Republican Party of Texas vowed to continue to fight to restrict abortion, or, as the group put it, to “relentlessly work to end the murder of unborn children in our state during this coming legislative session.”

“We will not allow organizations like Planned Parenthood, who openly work with Satanists, to continue to slaughter the most vulnerable members of society,” the Texas GOP wrote.

The party’s statement contains a link to a 2017 article from Breitbart that alleges Planned Parenthood “teams up with Satanists to promote abortion” in Missouri—based, it seems, solely on the fact that both Planned Parenthood and an organization named the Satanic Temple support abortion rights.

“Satanism has a millennial history of association with child sacrifice, which makes the Temple’s financial and moral support of abortion a natural activity for the sect,” the Breitbart article reads.

But despite its splashy name, the Satanic Temple doesn’t actually believe in the existence of Satan—or any supernatural phenomena at all (or, it should go without saying, child sacrifice). Instead, the group tries to promote critical thinking, the separation of church and state, and what it calls “reasonable agnosticism.” For members of the Satanic Temple, Satan represents a metaphorical resistance against tyrannical rulers.


https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkdza8/the-texas-gop-really-thinks-planned-parenthood-works-with-satanists
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Re: Republican Watch

#1615  Postby Hermit » Dec 20, 2020 12:53 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:On the basis of that cartoon you posted, how about if I regard it as "the so-called left"?

Please do.

Cito di Pense wrote:There's a point in US politics where you can't get any farther left, because nobody wishes you were there. That's the extreme, then.

Yes. In the US. Pretty insular, don't you think? Maybe not. Inhabitants of the US have the reputation of regarding stuff beyond its borders as an irrelevant consideration because shit that matters outside its borders don't matter all that much to them unless it involves oil, in which case Wall Street pricks up it ears in alarm, or the honour of the nation is impugned, in which case everyone else gets their knickers in a knot.
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Re: Republican Watch

#1616  Postby The_Piper » Dec 27, 2020 5:45 pm

This is chuckle-worthy. It's also depressing.
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Re: Republican Watch

#1617  Postby Seabass » Jan 03, 2021 12:09 am

As Americans joined nationwide protests against racial injustice following the police killings of Breonna Taylor and George Floyd in 2020, right-wing media’s response was vicious and divisive. Conservative media figures painted Black activists as violent terrorists endangering the lives of its viewers and civilization itself, while outlets like Fox News celebrated white, right-wing vigilantes as heroes, the true victims of law enforcement.

Fox fed its audience wildly inaccurate caricatures of protests in cities across the country, suggested that urban areas were being consumed by violence, and encouraged Trump to re-establish “law and order.”

While right-wing and white supremacist groups took advantage of the escalating situation to incite violence, far-right personalities focused on the police narrative that the protesters are violent to justify police's use of excessive force and violence against peaceful protesters, and they relentlessly hyped up the supposed threats posed by anti-fascists.

Trump used this fearmongering to justify military action and attack his political enemies. The narrative that anti-fascists were behind the violence at protests caused panic in small towns across the U.S., where residents gathered to defend their homes from attacks that never happened.


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Re: Republican Watch

#1618  Postby The_Metatron » Jan 03, 2021 5:42 pm

The_Piper wrote:There are individuals who are extreme left in this country, plenty of them. But they are not organized into any group and have absolutely zero political power. They spend a lot of energy fighting with each other too.
I wouldn't call statue topplers extreme left, necessarily. Confederate statues should have no place in modern America. Unfortunately we have scores of people who wish harm and even death upon people who do that. Or against people who protest police brutality. See Kyle Rittenhouse and the massive support for that little murderer twerp.
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Agrees. That's two corners of the lower 48 covered, then.
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Re: Republican Watch

#1619  Postby The_Piper » Jan 03, 2021 8:30 pm

Even with that, there are holes. Trump won my district again. :picard:
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Re: Republican Watch

#1620  Postby Alan C » Jan 03, 2021 11:45 pm

Yeah I know what that's like, my electorate still voted in the greasy young Tory twat again despite everything. I like living here but man it'd be nice to see some here give more consideration to their voting choices. It's been tory as long as my mum can remember.
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