Republican Watch

People who say "Democrats are as bad as Republicans" are almost as bad as Republicans.

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Re: Republican Watch

#1821  Postby NamelessFaceless » Apr 09, 2021 1:00 pm

Tortured_Genius wrote:I got pointed at this opinion piece in the US "conservative" National Review, about "why not fewer voters", from Professor Heather Cox Richardson's letters (can't link to the original because arsebook is being a face). As expected, she dissects it with reference to the Southern slave states, etc. but I found it weirdly refreshing.

Here's a guy openly rejecting democracy in favour of oligarchy without the usual hiding behind "the other people are all communists" bullshit. Whilst it's not explicit there's no other conclusion based on what he's written and his complete and utter failure to address the elephant in the room (no pun intended) in regard to limited enfranchisement of "Who decides?".

The question I have for our US friends is how mainstream is this opinion? Formerly it's the sort of thing which would have been consigned to the lunatic fringe (at least publicly) - but here it is in a mainstream publication.

From over here it's tricky to tell since I'm in something of a liberal echo-chamber (not least because most conservative sources leave me shouting at the telly/PC, throwing things and play havoc with my blood pressure).

Whilst I suspect it'll never be adopted as formal GOP policy, how much of the electorate would perceive this is as the actual party aims? (With all that would imply)

And how many would care?

(Asking for me, because the concept of an openly oligarchical authoritarian USA is terrifying, although some would contend that it is already, albeit with a veneer of democracy).


I really can't answer this because I just don't know WTF people are thinking anymore. :(
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Re: Republican Watch

#1822  Postby NamelessFaceless » Apr 09, 2021 1:02 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:I can’t express how wonderful it is to wake up every morning and read about things getting worse for Matt Gaetz :lol:


Yeah. He's such a douche.
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Re: Republican Watch

#1823  Postby SafeAsMilk » Apr 09, 2021 1:29 pm

Read that National Review article, a publication my dad reads. The writer shit his pants almost immediately — he’d be down with restricting voting until 30? So you’ve got half your life to die in a war before you can vote? A decade an a half to be forced to give birth to and raise children before you get to have any say in your government? Get the fuck outta here, fascist shitstain. You can practically hear the barely suppressed “white, Christian conservative” before each mention of “good voters”. Boy for people who’re ostensibly so concerned about the tyranny of government, they sure do line up in a hurry to give their rights away when they think it might benefit them.

As for how popular it is? Given the palpable desperation of the GOP, I wouldn’t be shocked if such a policy became part of the party platform in the relative near future. The only light at the end of that tunnel is there may not be enough of them by then to enact those policies.
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Re: Republican Watch

#1824  Postby The_Piper » Apr 09, 2021 1:56 pm

The Democrats can only be as progressive as Joe Manchin and Kirsten Sinema. Winning the slim majority in senate was really important, but not as automatic as some seemed to think it would be.
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Re: Republican Watch

#1825  Postby The_Piper » Apr 09, 2021 1:58 pm

NamelessFaceless wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:I can’t express how wonderful it is to wake up every morning and read about things getting worse for Matt Gaetz :lol:


Yeah. He's such a douche.

:lol: His buddy is going to take a plea deal, supposedly. I believe it when I see it. Schadenfreude. :teef:
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Re: Republican Watch

#1826  Postby Tortured_Genius » Apr 10, 2021 5:37 pm

Thanks a lot for the replies folks. Unfortunately by the look of it NamelessFaceless seems to have summed it up succinctly:

NamelessFaceless wrote:

I really can't answer this because I just don't know WTF people are thinking anymore. :(


If it's any consolation, it looks like we are fucked in the UK too, what with the weird gavotte the British and American aristocracy dance. Just think - if Boris hadn't dropped his American citizenship in 2016 you could have Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson as president :grin: .

The Regan administration gave us Thatcher, which was truly horrible.

I don't think it a coincidence that the most openly corrupt UK government we've had in generations has coincided with the Trump presidency.

Fuck knows what will happen here if the USA becomes a single party state, but it won't be good.
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Re: Republican Watch

#1827  Postby Animavore » Apr 16, 2021 5:29 pm

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Re: Republican Watch

#1828  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 16, 2021 10:59 pm

:eh: :doh:

The word 'sleaze' seems insufficient to convey the magnitude of these alleged activities.
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Re: Republican Watch

#1829  Postby Seabass » Apr 16, 2021 11:07 pm

"A Russian nesting doll with Florida men all the way down"

:lol:
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." —Voltaire

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Re: Republican Watch

#1830  Postby willhud9 » Apr 16, 2021 11:14 pm

Tortured_Genius wrote:

The question I have for our US friends is how mainstream is this opinion?


I used to mull around the idea of an actual qualification needed in order to vote. Like a basic civics test, or even a simple political awareness test along the lines of asking simple questions like: "Who is your current representative in the House of Representatives?" "What two senators represent your state?" "Who are the members of the supreme court"

But I abandoned this belief when I realized my education and knowledge of civics comes with a big helping of white privilege that many people simply do not have. To disenfranchise votes based on education (no matter how tempting it'd be to shut down anti-vaxxers from electing people with no credible scientific understanding) is unfortunately something that can easily be abused by the state.

Therefore universal suffrage is countered by a societal expectation to raise awareness against falsity.

I never understood how committing a crime should take away your right to vote. The ironic thing being the 2nd amendment brigade pushes really hard to restore gun ownership rights to criminals even crying red flag laws would be unjust to those whom have made amends yet they are quick to say criminals shouldn't vote? :eh:
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Re: Republican Watch

#1831  Postby Tortured_Genius » Apr 16, 2021 11:55 pm

willhud9 wrote:

I never understood how committing a crime should take away your right to vote. The ironic thing being the 2nd amendment brigade pushes really hard to restore gun ownership rights to criminals even crying red flag laws would be unjust to those whom have made amends yet they are quick to say criminals shouldn't vote? :eh:


Checking Wikipedia (I know it's not that reliable, but I couldn't think of where else to look) it would appear that the USA is pretty much unique in disenfranchising people who have served their sentence. Some places (including the UK) disenfranchise people whilst they are serving their sentence but otherwise re-enfranchisement is automatic once outside prison (the electoral register is based on where you live and that's about it).

By a remarkable co-incidence:

Such disenfranchisement policy currently excludes one in six African-American males. For example, in the 1998 elections, at least 10 states formally disenfranchised 20 percent of African-American voters due to felony convictions (Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, 1999). Excluding felons provided “a small but clear advantage to Republican candidates in every presidential and senatorial election from 1972 to 2000” (Manza & Uggen, 2006, p. 191). In addition, felon disenfranchisement may have changed the course of history by costing Al Gore the 2000 presidential election (Uggen & Manza, 2002). Similarly, if not for felon disenfranchisement, Democratic senatorial candidates would likely have prevailed in Texas (1978), Kentucky (1984 and 1992), Florida (1988 and 2004), and Georgia (1992) (Manza & Uggen, 2006, p. 194).


Quelle surprise.
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Re: Republican Watch

#1832  Postby The_Piper » Apr 17, 2021 1:36 am

Different states have different laws about felons voting. In Maine even inmates are given a ballot. Florida just re-infranchised felons who have served their sentence. I'm not familiar with any other state's practices.
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Re: Republican Watch

#1833  Postby Animavore » Apr 19, 2021 12:10 am

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Re: Republican Watch

#1834  Postby Seabass » Apr 26, 2021 9:44 am

All the best people.

Befuddled Larry Kudlow Rails That Biden Will Force Americans To Guzzle ‘Plant-Based Beer’

Now that Donald Trump’s former economic adviser Larry Kudlow has taken his words of wisdom from the White House to Fox News, he wants the nation to know that President Joe Biden is plotting to force Americans to drink “plant-based beer.”
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Re: Republican Watch

#1835  Postby Alan C » Apr 26, 2021 11:32 pm

Seabass wrote:All the best people.

Befuddled Larry Kudlow Rails That Biden Will Force Americans To Guzzle ‘Plant-Based Beer’

Now that Donald Trump’s former economic adviser Larry Kudlow has taken his words of wisdom from the White House to Fox News, he wants the nation to know that President Joe Biden is plotting to force Americans to drink “plant-based beer.”


Yeah, SO read that out to me this morning, my first reaction was barely controlled laughter.
Damn it, someone has to stand up for hairy-chested meat-based beer!

On a related note, I saw a shared photo of a pot of 'plant-based guacamole'. I don't eat guacamole but I assumed it was generally an avocado spread with various planty ingredients. Organic table salt is another.
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Re: Republican Watch

#1836  Postby Tortured_Genius » Apr 26, 2021 11:39 pm

Now, now, obviously he's not into something as stupid as "meat-based" beer.

As a good Republican he'll be drinking beer extracted directly from oil or coal-shale.

(It's likely to have a few side-effects mind).
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Re: Republican Watch

#1837  Postby Seabass » Apr 27, 2021 1:05 am

Monsters live among us. They call themselves "Republicans".



We look at a slew of anti-protest laws pending in Republican-led states, and some that have already passed, such as in Florida, where Republican Governor Ron DeSantis signed a controversial measure known as the “anti-riot bill” that is widely viewed as a response to the Black Lives Matter movement and calls to “defund the police.” Under the new law, a public gathering of three or more people can be classified as a “riot,” and anyone who “willingly” participates in such a gathering can be charged with a third-degree felony. Many of the anti-protest bills pending in other states have the exact same language as the Florida plan. “These are really extreme laws,” says Nick Robinson, a senior legal adviser with the International Center for Not-for-Profit Law, which has tracked 81 anti-protest bills introduced in 34 states so far this year. They “expand the definition of rioting” in order “to target protesters,” Robinson tells Democracy Now!

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“They want to take away your hamburgers. This is what Stalin dreamt about but never achieved.” —Sebastian Gorka
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Re: Republican Watch

#1838  Postby willhud9 » Apr 27, 2021 4:30 am

On a related tangent:

In my recent conversations with my socialist-anarchist or libertarian friends, they all keep retorting that my "liberal" ideas of gun control are fascist and will allow the state to seize control of the population. Without their firearms how can they stop tyranny?!?!

Yet, I see Florida pass a bill which essentially spits in the First Amendment's face saying they can call a protest of 3 or more people a riot? That is clearly a massive infringement on the people's right to assembly. Things like what passed in Florida and are trying to be passed elsewhere are clear examples of fascist behavior from far right governments in the past or modern countries like Hungary.

I guess its okay for the country to slowly become fascist. After all, the guns against tyrannical government crowd is clearly needing clear and present evil like an Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars to abolish the US Republic and begin the United Empire of America. They can only take direct action when they have clear understand of a supremely evil dictator with no moral ambiguity.
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Re: Republican Watch

#1839  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 27, 2021 4:37 am

willhud9 wrote:On a related tangent:

In my recent conversations with my socialist-anarchist or libertarian friends, they all keep retorting that my "liberal" ideas of gun control are fascist and will allow the state to seize control of the population. Without their firearms how can they stop tyranny?!?!

Yet, I see Florida pass a bill which essentially spits in the First Amendment's face saying they can call a protest of 3 or more people a riot? That is clearly a massive infringement on the people's right to assembly. Things like what passed in Florida and are trying to be passed elsewhere are clear examples of fascist behavior from far right governments in the past or modern countries like Hungary.

I guess its okay for the country to slowly become fascist. After all, the guns against tyrannical government crowd is clearly needing clear and present evil like an Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars to abolish the US Republic and begin the United Empire of America. They can only take direct action when they have clear understand of a supremely evil dictator with no moral ambiguity.



While the bill against protest is obviously anti-liberty and repressive, the way to resolve this is through the democratic process - vote out people who create and support such bills. No amount of guns is sufficient otherwise, else laws will be based on who can lay down the most bullets.

There's no reason to believe that private ownership of guns are going to present a real challenge to a tyrannical nation state with the military power of the U.S. anymore than mass peaceful protest would. In my eyes, the proper response to a bill curtailing freedom of assembly is mass protest - how many people are the state of Florida prepared to arrest?
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Re: Republican Watch

#1840  Postby willhud9 » Apr 27, 2021 4:57 am

How dare you, you liberal reformationist!

But seriously, I agree.
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