Republican Watch

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Re: Republican Watch

#2401  Postby Seabass » Dec 10, 2022 6:24 am

Why Conservatives Invented a ‘Right to Post’

You have a right to free speech as long as you are saying what conservatives want you to say.
By Adam Serwer

Early december might have marked the first time anyone ever asserted a First Amendment right to see the president’s son’s penis, an argument that the Framers likely did not anticipate.

In November, the billionaire Elon Musk purchased Twitter, proclaiming himself a “free speech absolutist,” in defiance of a rather extensive record of retaliating against speech he opposes. A month later, Musk, citing five tweets that had been deleted at the Biden campaign’s request in October 2020, asked, “If this isn’t a violation of the Constitution’s First Amendment, what is?”

The tweets in question included explicit pictures and video of President Joe Biden’s son, Hunter—unambiguous violations of the platform’s standards. Nevertheless, the Fox News pundit Tucker Carlson called their deletion a “systemic violation of the First Amendment, the largest example of that in modern history.”

There are some problems with this assertion. One is that Twitter is not the government and so is not bound by the First Amendment. Another is that the Biden campaign was not the government and was also not bound by the First Amendment. Still another is that there is no constitutional obligation for private actors to host images of a candidate’s son’s penis, and indeed, rather than a violation of the First Amendment, the choice not to host such images is itself an exercise of free speech.

The catalyst for these novel interpretations of the First Amendment was a Twitter thread by the journalist Matt Taibbi, which included the recently purchased platform’s internal deliberations over whether the Hunter Biden story violated the company’s policy on hosting hacked materials. Taibbi wrote in his newsletter that he was granted access to the files under unspecified “conditions.” The New York Times said it had requested access to the same files, but did not get a response.

Curiously, as the writer Osita Nwanevu notes, among Taibbi’s observations was that requests by the Trump White House for deletions were also “honored.” The Trump White House, of course, actually was the government.

Now, those requests for deletions were not necessarily nefarious. Sources attempt to persuade media outlets not to publish things fairly frequently. Sometimes, those sources are in the government. Unless coercion or threats of retaliation are involved, there’s no violation of the First Amendment. Of course, the Trump White House did openly threaten to punish tech companies over their editorial decisions, to broad support from people who think the Constitution bars Twitter from deleting Hunter Biden’s dick pics.

Reconciling that apparent contradiction requires understanding how freedom of speech has been redefined to confer a right to say only what conservatives want you to say.

full article:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/12/legal-right-to-post-free-speech-social-media/672406/
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Re: Republican Watch

#2402  Postby THWOTH » Dec 12, 2022 4:16 pm

So-called "free speech absolutists" are always the ones overly eager to burn books or to do a massive cancel culture.

Fucking snowflakes.
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Re: Republican Watch

#2403  Postby Seabass » Dec 26, 2022 8:48 pm

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." —Voltaire

"They want to take away your hamburgers. This is what Stalin dreamt about but never achieved." —Sebastian Gorka
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Re: Republican Watch

#2404  Postby Thommo » Dec 26, 2022 9:30 pm

So I guess we should verify the source on that, or?
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Re: Republican Watch

#2405  Postby THWOTH » Dec 26, 2022 10:12 pm

What's "left-leaning media" in this context?
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Re: Republican Watch

#2406  Postby The_Piper » Dec 27, 2022 6:22 am

I love selfawarewolves. Not the wolves, the reddit. It's funny and sad. :lol:
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Re: Republican Watch

#2407  Postby The_Piper » Dec 27, 2022 6:25 am

THWOTH wrote:What's "left-leaning media" in this context?

Centrist mainstream media I'm guessing. CNN, MSNBC, ABC, etc. They certainly don't favor actually left-leaning views, but at least have a basis in fact and aren't purveyors of Infowars type shit. It's my guess anyways.
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Re: Republican Watch

#2408  Postby Thommo » Dec 27, 2022 10:19 am

The_Piper wrote:I love selfawarewolves. Not the wolves, the reddit. It's funny and sad. :lol:


It's funny in the way The Onion is funny. That post (for example) was allegedly written by a left-wing reddit user with a now deleted account who claimed that he paraphrased it from a real life friend.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfAwarewolve ... &context=3
Close, I have a very conservative friend who wants to discuss politics often, often by linking reddit threads and going from there. I sometimes post his most ridiculous takes so that the internet can tear him a new one.

I use some of the smarter and more nuanced replies when I try to re-engage him with previous discussions. Problem is the right-wing outrage/misinformation machine moves so fast it's like he's got a memory of a gold fish. There's a reason the most prominent voices on the right generate daily content as opposed to the left where the best content creators post at best monthly.

It's quite frustrating he won't even remember saying this stuff or the insanity of the points he makes. Kinda surreal to see the post on selfawarewolves though. I think I'm gonna stop posting his hot takes.


It might be possible to surmise that if his friend later denies saying the things attributed to him (like this paraphrase) and that he genuinely thinks right-wing prominent voices generate daily content where that doesn't happen on the left (I'm reasonably sure MSNBC airs 24/7 the same as Fox News) he might not be entirely unbiased as a source and his attributions at best contested.

Ultimately though, as the comment this was a reply to suggests, this should be marked as satire. Because people are very clearly seeing that quote and treating it as authentic and meaningful because of its presentation to the echo-chamber. It's every bit as othering and divisive as the nonsense you see in right-wing echo chambers, even if thankfully it presents somewhat less hateful ideas.
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Re: Republican Watch

#2409  Postby THWOTH » Dec 27, 2022 12:36 pm

The_Piper wrote:
THWOTH wrote:What's "left-leaning media" in this context?

Centrist mainstream media I'm guessing. CNN, MSNBC, ABC, etc. They certainly don't favor actually left-leaning views, but at least have a basis in fact and aren't purveyors of Infowars type shit. It's my guess anyways.


So mass media owned by the wrong kind of billionaires, corporations or hedge funds then? For a proper left-leaning left-leaner like me, when I look around the mass media landscape I see very little but right-leaning outlets - I count the self-declared centrist media in that. It's just that some bits of it present as a little less rabid than other bits.
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Re: Republican Watch

#2410  Postby Tortured_Genius » Dec 27, 2022 1:21 pm

Like creationists and cultists, you can't argue rationally with circular logic and batshit crazy.

And ignorance, circular logic and batshit crazy is the basic fuel of right-wing propaganda.

Right: "Biden is a Marxist". Ask them what a Marxist is and the reply will be "Someone like Biden".
Left: "Trump is a Fascist". Ask them what a fascist is and the reply will be "An authoritarian who demands power contrary to the will of the electorate" and similar actual arguments.

Right: "Same sex partnership is bad". Ask them why and the reply is "Because God said so".
Left: "Same sex partnership is fine". Ask them why and the reply is "Well there's no real reason why not".

You cannot rationally argue with circular logic and bat-shit crazy. Trying to educate the ignorant is very hard work and takes time, far longer than a snappy sound-bite or outright lie.
None are so hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. - Goethe
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Re: Republican Watch

#2411  Postby Seabass » Dec 27, 2022 3:31 pm

Thommo wrote:So I guess we should verify the source on that, or?


Thommo wrote:
The_Piper wrote:I love selfawarewolves. Not the wolves, the reddit. It's funny and sad. :lol:


It's funny in the way The Onion is funny. That post (for example) was allegedly written by a left-wing reddit user with a now deleted account who claimed that he paraphrased it from a real life friend.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfAwarewolve ... &context=3
Close, I have a very conservative friend who wants to discuss politics often, often by linking reddit threads and going from there. I sometimes post his most ridiculous takes so that the internet can tear him a new one.

I use some of the smarter and more nuanced replies when I try to re-engage him with previous discussions. Problem is the right-wing outrage/misinformation machine moves so fast it's like he's got a memory of a gold fish. There's a reason the most prominent voices on the right generate daily content as opposed to the left where the best content creators post at best monthly.

It's quite frustrating he won't even remember saying this stuff or the insanity of the points he makes. Kinda surreal to see the post on selfawarewolves though. I think I'm gonna stop posting his hot takes.


It might be possible to surmise that if his friend later denies saying the things attributed to him (like this paraphrase) and that he genuinely thinks right-wing prominent voices generate daily content where that doesn't happen on the left (I'm reasonably sure MSNBC airs 24/7 the same as Fox News) he might not be entirely unbiased as a source and his attributions at best contested.

Ultimately though, as the comment this was a reply to suggests, this should be marked as satire. Because people are very clearly seeing that quote and treating it as authentic and meaningful because of its presentation to the echo-chamber. It's every bit as othering and divisive as the nonsense you see in right-wing echo chambers, even if thankfully it presents somewhat less hateful ideas.


You're taking this way too seriously, Thommo. It's not a Washington Post or BBC article or a quote from a head of state. It's just a post from some rando on a subreddit called "selfawarewolves". I thought it was funny, that's all.

If you're not familiar with Reddit, it's not a news organization; it's just a forum where anyone can post.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." —Voltaire

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Re: Republican Watch

#2412  Postby Thommo » Dec 27, 2022 4:16 pm

Seabass wrote:You're taking this way too seriously, Thommo. It's not a Washington Post or BBC article or a quote from a head of state. It's just a post from some rando on a subreddit called "selfawarewolves". I thought it was funny, that's all.


Fair enough. For me, spending 2 minutes looking at it wasn't taking it too seriously.

Serious things get discussed in this thread all the time though. The manner in which the US is polarised so that a left-winger's post mocking right-wingers is treated as if it were posted by a right-winger (by what, dozens, hundreds of reddit users?) is fairly symptomatic of the way the "outrage/misinformation machine moves" on both sides. Which is slightly ironic when the content itself implies that left-wingers like to fact check and have facts on their side. That point wouldn't be out of keeping with a lot of this thread, it just, perhaps, points in the wrong direction for some people's sensibility.

The reddit thread is absolutely riddled through with a sense that "the other side" are bad because they lack scepticism and substitute it with misinformation. For those not interested in the serious point, that's pretty funny too. Not because it makes right-wingers look foolish and unaware, but because it makes left-wingers do that.

Perhaps we could all do with a bit more self-awareness, or laughing at ourselves a bit more! Or perhaps not! :lol:
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Re: Republican Watch

#2413  Postby Seabass » Dec 27, 2022 5:20 pm

Image
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." —Voltaire

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Re: Republican Watch

#2414  Postby The_Piper » Dec 27, 2022 8:28 pm

Thommo wrote:
The_Piper wrote:I love selfawarewolves. Not the wolves, the reddit. It's funny and sad. :lol:


It's funny in the way The Onion is funny. That post (for example) was allegedly written by a left-wing reddit user with a now deleted account who claimed that he paraphrased it from a real life friend.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfAwarewolve ... &context=3
Close, I have a very conservative friend who wants to discuss politics often, often by linking reddit threads and going from there. I sometimes post his most ridiculous takes so that the internet can tear him a new one.

I use some of the smarter and more nuanced replies when I try to re-engage him with previous discussions. Problem is the right-wing outrage/misinformation machine moves so fast it's like he's got a memory of a gold fish. There's a reason the most prominent voices on the right generate daily content as opposed to the left where the best content creators post at best monthly.

It's quite frustrating he won't even remember saying this stuff or the insanity of the points he makes. Kinda surreal to see the post on selfawarewolves though. I think I'm gonna stop posting his hot takes.


It might be possible to surmise that if his friend later denies saying the things attributed to him (like this paraphrase) and that he genuinely thinks right-wing prominent voices generate daily content where that doesn't happen on the left (I'm reasonably sure MSNBC airs 24/7 the same as Fox News) he might not be entirely unbiased as a source and his attributions at best contested.

Ultimately though, as the comment this was a reply to suggests, this should be marked as satire. Because people are very clearly seeing that quote and treating it as authentic and meaningful because of its presentation to the echo-chamber. It's every bit as othering and divisive as the nonsense you see in right-wing echo chambers, even if thankfully it presents somewhat less hateful ideas.
Thus is the nature of Reddit and social media in general, as we know. Sometimes/often I don't know if a post is a "poe" or real. I still don't know if this is. See the subreddit "parlertrick" for genuine political satire. :) It started out to try and troll radical right wingers, hoping they'd think the posts are real. I haven't been on it for a while but I'm guessing the jig is mostly up by now.

These parts from that deleted user's post kill me "it's like he's got a memory of a gold fish" "I think I'm gonna stop posting his hot takes." :lol: :rofl:
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Re: Republican Watch

#2415  Postby Thommo » Dec 27, 2022 8:49 pm

:lol:

Yeah, you're not wrong!
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Re: Republican Watch

#2416  Postby The_Piper » Dec 27, 2022 9:11 pm

THWOTH wrote:
The_Piper wrote:
THWOTH wrote:What's "left-leaning media" in this context?

Centrist mainstream media I'm guessing. CNN, MSNBC, ABC, etc. They certainly don't favor actually left-leaning views, but at least have a basis in fact and aren't purveyors of Infowars type shit. It's my guess anyways.


So mass media owned by the wrong kind of billionaires, corporations or hedge funds then? For a proper left-leaning left-leaner like me, when I look around the mass media landscape I see very little but right-leaning outlets - I count the self-declared centrist media in that. It's just that some bits of it present as a little less rabid than other bits.

Pretty much I agree, although those outlets are, or at least portray themselves as supportive of some centrist views. Thankfully they are socially progressive to some degree, which is probably mostly why the right calls them left wing media. *Now they've taken way off from merely calling them left but I won't get into that now.

While I'm bringing up MSNBC, they inexplicably brought back Chris Matthews just a couple of years after he had to be retired for saying insane shit about Bernie Sanders when Bernie clearly had the momentum early in the 2020 primaries. MSNBC is complete garbage.
It's the comment at 0:14 when he say "certain other people" he means Bernie specifically, or Bernie and his supporters.

More lunacy here if you're inclined.

AFAIK nobody retired that asshole Carville yet when he's been toxic for years.
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Re: Republican Watch

#2417  Postby THWOTH » Dec 28, 2022 2:29 am

:shudder:
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Re: Republican Watch

#2418  Postby Alan C » Dec 31, 2022 9:45 am

So when is the insurrection caucus going to share a prison wing together? That they haven't been at minimum expelled is obscene, Almost two fucking years after the fact.
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Re: Republican Watch

#2419  Postby Alan C » Jan 04, 2023 7:45 am

Perhaps not entirely surprisingly, McCarthy is three for three in failing to get the requisite votes to be speaker of the house. Not surprisingly the mango maniac has thrown him under the bus, Kevin who?
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Re: Republican Watch

#2420  Postby Tortured_Genius » Jan 04, 2023 1:51 pm

House GOP ditches metal detectors 3 days before Capitol riot anniversary (Axios)

Presumably this is so the next set of terrorists can bring in guns unimpeded.

Got to wonder why they didn't go the whole hog and strip the place of all security completely.
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