Republican Watch

People who say "Democrats are as bad as Republicans" are almost as bad as Republicans.

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Re: Republican Watch

#1661  Postby The_Piper » Jan 15, 2021 12:01 am

SafeAsMilk wrote:
I don't understand why this "excuse" seems so outlandish to you. My position is fuck them, they made their bed now lie in it. But their buyer's remorse doesn't seem strange and mystifying to me.

Didn't you see my first post on this that you quoted? It starts out with 2 sentences that say what you say, minus the fuck them part.
The_Piper wrote:I understand it being physically dangerous for anyone to vote for impeachment, and not just Republicans. I can empathize with not wanting to have death threats. However, the Democrats in Congress were a lot closer to looking down the barrel of a gun than any Republican voting for impeachment. The people inside the capitol with a noose and hand ties protesting that their president lost the election, were probably planning on physically harming Democrats.
In that sense Republicans not voting for impeachment due to safety concerns after what went down on January 6, are failures. That's no excuse.
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Re: Republican Watch

#1662  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jan 15, 2021 1:10 am

I saw it, I just disagree with you that any democrat who voted for impeachment is in just as much danger as a Republican. Surely you'd agree that the gravy seals weren't surprised in the slightest that every democrat voted to impeach. They are already on the shit list because of the D next to their name. Any Republican, on the other hand, probably thinks they will be viewed as an especially heinous traitor, and with good reason. They live and work amongst republicans. Republicans are their constituents. It's not a stretch for them to think they're easier targets. Again, the gallows was built for Mike Pence, reporters heard rioters talking about hanging him and they were looking for him in the capitol, that's not a rumor, that's a fact.
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Re: Republican Watch

#1663  Postby The_Piper » Jan 15, 2021 1:16 am

You're saying my position is that it's an outlandish excuse, which is not my position. I thought I made that clear by saying that I empathize with their fear.
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Re: Republican Watch

#1664  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jan 15, 2021 2:41 am

I guess I just don't understand what your point is, then. Could you sum it up for my dull, addled brain? :dopey:
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Re: Republican Watch

#1665  Postby Agi Hammerthief » Jan 15, 2021 6:32 am

SafeAsMilk wrote:[Voting to impeach him has not removed him from office, in case you hadn't noticed.

of cause a wafer thin vote to impeach isn’t helping.
a ¾ or more majority and pressure on Mitch might have helped.
* my (modified) emphasis ( or 'interpretation' )

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Re: Republican Watch

#1666  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jan 15, 2021 12:21 pm

Agi Hammerthief wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:[Voting to impeach him has not removed him from office, in case you hadn't noticed.

of cause a wafer thin vote to impeach isn’t helping.
a ¾ or more majority and pressure on Mitch might have helped.

Believe it or not, this was the most bipartisan impeachment we've ever had and Mitch had apparently expressed his support in private. Just because Trump is a republican and was useful doesn't change that Mitch is an opportunist, and the word is this seems like a good time to separate from Trump. I honestly thought it was going to be years ago so they could install Pence, to me it says how useful he was and how much they're willing to accept. I'd almost gotten to the point where I thought the threshold didn't exist after all.
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Re: Republican Watch

#1667  Postby Agi Hammerthief » Jan 15, 2021 12:27 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:
Agi Hammerthief wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:[Voting to impeach him has not removed him from office, in case you hadn't noticed.

of cause a wafer thin vote to impeach isn’t helping.
a ¾ or more majority and pressure on Mitch might have helped.

Believe it or not, this was the most bipartisan impeachment we've ever had and Mitch had apparently expressed his support in private. Just because Trump is a republican and was useful doesn't change that Mitch is an opportunist, and the word is this seems like a good time to separate from Trump. I honestly thought it was going to be years ago so they could install Pence, to me it says how useful he was and how much they're willing to accept. I'd almost gotten to the point where I thought the threshold didn't exist after all.

Would be nice if Mitch only is not allowing the quick vote in the Senate to prevent a pardon from Pence.
* my (modified) emphasis ( or 'interpretation' )

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Re: Republican Watch

#1668  Postby Thommo » Jan 15, 2021 1:23 pm

Is that what's going on?
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Re: Republican Watch

#1669  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jan 15, 2021 1:24 pm

How would Mitch not convening the senate to vote on Trump prevent a pardon from Pence? As far as I can tell, Trump can resign at any point during the time left and Pence can pardon him a la Nixon. Also I understand it's not just Mitch, the members of the senate would have to agree to reconvene.
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Re: Republican Watch

#1670  Postby Agi Hammerthief » Jan 15, 2021 1:35 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:.. Trump can resign at any point during the time left and Pence can pardon him a la Nixon.

considering the wording re: pardon in the constitution

The President ... shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of impeachment.

the one for Nixon was pretty fishy.
* my (modified) emphasis ( or 'interpretation' )

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Re: Republican Watch

#1671  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jan 15, 2021 2:16 pm

I don't know well enough to say, but I was under the impression that the exception for pardon is referring to the president pardoning themselves if they're being impeached. I don't think it prevents a different president from doing it.
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Re: Republican Watch

#1672  Postby Spearthrower » Jan 15, 2021 2:17 pm

Agi Hammerthief wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:.. Trump can resign at any point during the time left and Pence can pardon him a la Nixon.

considering the wording re: pardon in the constitution

The President ... shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of impeachment.

the one for Nixon was pretty fishy.



I think we need to all be clear here: impeachment is not a criminal charge, it's a political one. The President can't stop himself from being impeached, but he can - insofar as is yet established by any precedent - pardon himself in advance for any criminal charge. Again, it would certainly end up at the SC, and it would probably result in a precedent for the future. It wouldn't matter that it amounts to an admission of guilt - which logically it must - because he's been pardoned for that crime by the President.

It's a hot sticky mess that needs to be addressed.
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Re: Republican Watch

#1673  Postby Spearthrower » Jan 15, 2021 2:18 pm

This almost certainly explains it better and with more credibility than I can offer:

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Re: Republican Watch

#1674  Postby The_Piper » Jan 15, 2021 3:59 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:I guess I just don't understand what your point is, then. Could you sum it up for my dull, addled brain? :dopey:

My point was for the thread, not you. That risk of safety concerns wasn't a good reason for Republicans not voting to impeach Trump. I understand it and I wouldn't want to open up my family to those threats either, but I'm not a representative. It's an unfortunate risk of the job. I wouldn't vote to re-elect someone who legislated according to personal risk. Though I'm sure I already have in the past, but when the choices are bad and worse, what's a person to do.
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Re: Republican Watch

#1675  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jan 15, 2021 5:21 pm

The_Piper wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:I guess I just don't understand what your point is, then. Could you sum it up for my dull, addled brain? :dopey:

My point was for the thread, not you. That risk of safety concerns wasn't a good reason for Republicans not voting to impeach Trump. I understand it and I wouldn't want to open up my family to those threats either, but I'm not a representative. It's an unfortunate risk of the job. I wouldn't vote to re-elect someone who legislated according to personal risk. Though I'm sure I already have in the past, but when the choices are bad and worse, what's a person to do.

You probably wouldn’t be voting for them anyway since they are republican. So whether you think risk to their lives is a good enough reason or not is probably not part of their decision making. Whereas, how their constituents will vote, or increasing the odds of being killed by them, is. I don’t think “it’s part of the job” is reasonable, we’re not talking about celebrities complaining that have to deal with overzealous fans when they go grocery shopping.
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Re: Republican Watch

#1676  Postby The_Piper » Jan 15, 2021 6:03 pm

Never mind.
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Re: Republican Watch

#1677  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jan 15, 2021 6:29 pm

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be a pain :hide: Apologies if I've misrepresented your position to the forum, it was not my intention.
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Re: Republican Watch

#1678  Postby Tortured_Genius » Jan 15, 2021 7:04 pm

The_Piper wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:I guess I just don't understand what your point is, then. Could you sum it up for my dull, addled brain? :dopey:

My point was for the thread, not you. That risk of safety concerns wasn't a good reason for Republicans not voting to impeach Trump. I understand it and I wouldn't want to open up my family to those threats either, but I'm not a representative. It's an unfortunate risk of the job. I wouldn't vote to re-elect someone who legislated according to personal risk. Though I'm sure I already have in the past, but when the choices are bad and worse, what's a person to do.


The moment you modify your voting position directly based on the demands (or expectations) of an armed terrorist because of the threat of violence, then that terrorist has won. This is the sort of dilemma that was frequently faced by UK politicians during "the troubles" and appeasement never worked. You can negotiate, but if you give in to the threat of violence you just get more threats and more demands.

And, alas, the risk is part of the job - if you can't or won't accept the risk then you can no longer do the job. It's still a very real risk for any active MP. (The last MP to be murdered in such a manner was Jo Cox only a few years ago).
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Re: Republican Watch

#1679  Postby Seabass » Jan 15, 2021 7:19 pm

I have zero sympathy for any Republicans. Think of the threats and harassment that congresswomen like Ilhan Omar and AOC get.
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Re: Republican Watch

#1680  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jan 15, 2021 7:36 pm

Seabass wrote:Think of the threats and harassment that congresswomen like Ilhan Omar and AOC get.

I suspect it's the first, maybe second thing that comes to their minds. "None for me, thanks." It's the kind of long view that's gotten republicans into this position to begin with.
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