too bad art 50 can only be activated by the concerned state, not a majority of the others, we'd have some real weight to load on top of the fascists in Hungary and Poland.

Theoretically, membership in the EU is tied to a certain degree of basic freedoms and human rights being guaranteed by the concerned state, I wonder if states that turn bad can be expelled on grounds of no longer having the basic prerequisites.

aufbahrung wrote:

Scot Dutchy wrote:What is unelected about the EU just for starters? Import what? You are missing something. They are called facts. Nice thing facts they make your claims look just that.

There are elements of democracy around the edges, I'll admit that much.

Countries provide representatives through free elections and can choose to leave the union. How much more democracy does it need to have to count as democratic?

aufbahrung wrote: Look at the fascists rising up like in Hungary? Don't see it lasting really?

Look at those goal posts moving, it's almost as if you cannot back up your initial claim.

aufbahrung wrote: Why should producing what fascists crave, a functional superpower in Europe, protect Europe from war etc anyways? Another topic...can see how the EU might represent safety, security for miniscule countries also.

And the situation in Russia has no fascist tendencies at all of course and provides a stable, democratic way to end fascism in Hungary....

aufbahrung wrote:

Scot Dutchy wrote:What is unelected about the EU just for starters? Import what? You are missing something. They are called facts. Nice thing facts they make your claims look just that.

There are elements of democracy around the edges, I'll admit that much. Look at the fascists rising up like in Hungary? Don't see it lasting really? Why should producing what fascists crave, a functional superpower in Europe, protect Europe from war etc anyways? Another topic...can see how the EU might represent safety, security for miniscule countries also.

Populists come and go and are just products of the system. Hungary is one of twenty nine. So a few others appear like our May fly party Forum For Democracy. The system allows them to say their peace, takes note and moves on. In May are European Elections and the populist vote will rise but that is politics and the result of a PR system. They cant take over as there are too many checks and balances in place. How many want to leave? They all know without the EU teat they would be poor.

Scot Dutchy wrote:

aufbahrung wrote:

Scot Dutchy wrote:What is unelected about the EU just for starters? Import what? You are missing something. They are called facts. Nice thing facts they make your claims look just that.

There are elements of democracy around the edges, I'll admit that much. Look at the fascists rising up like in Hungary? Don't see it lasting really? Why should producing what fascists crave, a functional superpower in Europe, protect Europe from war etc anyways? Another topic...can see how the EU might represent safety, security for miniscule countries also.

Populists come and go and are just products of the system. Hungary is one of twenty nine. So a few others appear like our May fly party Forum For Democracy. The system allows them to say their peace, takes note and moves on. In May are European Elections and the populist vote will rise but that is politics and the result of a PR system. They cant take over as there are too many checks and balances in place. How many want to leave? They all know without the EU teat they would be poor.

You have much optimism in history not repeating from out of nowhere. I can think of several scenarios where the wheels could come off your optimism. You only have to look at the state of British politics to see how quickly a sensible system of checks and balances built on the soup of human nature can start to run wild.