'runaway dads' should be 'shamed'

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Re: 'runaway dads' should be 'shamed'

#21  Postby BrandySpears » Jun 19, 2011 8:08 pm

You can't get blood out of a turnip.

California will even take your driver's license away for failure to pay child support which seems to be a double-edged sword. 76% of defaults on child support payments come from people making less than $10k a year.

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Re: 'runaway dads' should be 'shamed'

#22  Postby j.mills » Jun 19, 2011 11:34 pm

BBC reports backlash.
David Cameron has been accused of "ripping away" support from single parents, just hours after making a stinging attack on absent fathers.

The prime minister said "runaway dads" should be "stigmatised" in the same way as drink-drivers.

But charity Gingerbread said government proposals to charge those needing state help to obtain child maintenance would make life harder for lone parents...
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Re: 'runaway dads' should be 'shamed'

#23  Postby orpheus » Jun 19, 2011 11:43 pm

melchior wrote:
Paul G wrote:Erm, they're already shamed. It won't make them give a shit. What does he think will happen? How will they be shamed more than they already are? Public flogging?


How are they already shamed? There has always been plenty of 'shaming' of women are single mothers, but we never hear anything said about men who don't step up to their responsibilities.


Really? I'm sorry to ask, but what world do you live in?

Google "deadbeat dads" and see what you come up with.
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Re: 'runaway dads' should be 'shamed'

#24  Postby johnbrandt » Jun 20, 2011 6:21 am

Only if they similarly "stigmatise" mothers who deny access to the mans children. Unless of course there is proven abuse involved. I say "proven" as it's far too easy for a woman to just claim anything she likes and be believed without proof "just to err on the safe side".

I know plenty of guys out here whose wife has moved to another state with the kids and smugly says "well I'm not stopping him seeing them". Not to mention the fact they remarry someone making a lot of money, and yet the man still has to pay money to support her. One workmate at the moment is agonising over his girlfriend, as his ex-wife is taking proceedings to get increased levels of child support out of him, even though she herself works at a coal mine in the area and makes the same huge wage that he does, well over $100,000 a year. He isn't sure whether he can afford to support his partner, and they are putting marriage plans on hold until they work something out. Why keep punishing a guy for years? Not to mention that it was his wife that left him...for another woman as a matter of fact :shock: ...so the rest of us kind of fail to see why he should continue to support her at all apart from maybe some money for the kids.

From what I see in the news, it would appear that the system around the world is pretty biased against fathers, as if they are nothing but a genetic material donor and should have no rights to any further say in their kids lives.
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Re: 'runaway dads' should be 'shamed'

#25  Postby Gallstones » Jun 20, 2011 7:09 am

The delinquent father to my son was my husband. He owes more in child support than I owed when I assumed the mortgage on my house. He has never been denied visitation, but he only requests it when he needs our son to perform some job or other function that serves the father. This has been going on for 16 years.
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Re: 'runaway dads' should be 'shamed'

#26  Postby KennyH » Jun 20, 2011 7:14 am

The Tories love to take the moral high ground, especially when it fits in nicely with policy - in this case financial policy. The benefits system spends huge amounts on supporting lone parents (the vast majority of whom are women), and there is also strong evidence that children from lone parent families are likely to do less well at school, be more at risk of getting into offending behaviour and so on - all of which has financial as well as social costs. Cameron thinks he can't lose with this issue.
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Re: 'runaway dads' should be 'shamed'

#27  Postby Paul G » Jun 20, 2011 12:20 pm

Gallstones wrote:The delinquent father to my son was my husband. He owes more in child support than I owed when I assumed the mortgage on my house. He has never been denied visitation, but he only requests it when he needs our son to perform some job or other function that serves the father. This has been going on for 16 years.


And?
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Re: 'runaway dads' should be 'shamed'

#28  Postby talkietoaster » Jun 20, 2011 12:43 pm

How does stigmatising help any situation at all? It won't motivate anyone to change their behaviours unless they actually feel responsibility or care. Just like a conservative to stigmatise something to make yourself feel superior in some way, how about actually coming up with a contructive why in dealing with these issues of abandoning children regardless if they are the father or mother.
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Re: 'runaway dads' should be 'shamed'

#29  Postby Ironclad » Jun 20, 2011 3:50 pm

I have never known my father and from time to time it made me quite distressed when I thought about where he was, what he was like, why he was gone.. and that. Some years ago I discovered that he had disowned his mother when he found out that she and my mother were infrequently communicating, an attempt to allow me an avenue should I wish it; this really spun me out - now I felt he never ever wanted to know about me.
Things were difficult when I was smaller, we had no money and mother had a few relationship disasters that ranged from twattage to full-on violence. It's pretty hard on a kid growing up with little stability, without a father - not even an alienated/divorced father - this guy simply wanted nothing to do with me whatsoever.

At times I feel dread bitterness toward this 'man' and still some of that childhood confusion, which is why, occasionally, I ponder on this question: as a 42 year old man now (me) can I sue this guy? Can I track him down and force him to pay for... what? Neglect? Missing child support?
He must be 60 by now. Do I track him down and run crying into his hesitant arms? Do I track him down and smash his face in? Should I find him, shame him, fine him?? Questions questions..

I, unfortunately, agree with Cameron. But I understand the objections too.
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Re: 'runaway dads' should be 'shamed'

#30  Postby Scarlett » Jun 20, 2011 5:21 pm

Ironclad wrote:I have never known my father and from time to time it made me quite distressed when I thought about where he was, what he was like, why he was gone.. and that. Some years ago I discovered that he had disowned his mother when he found out that she and my mother were infrequently communicating, an attempt to allow me an avenue should I wish it; this really spun me out - now I felt he never ever wanted to know about me.
Things were difficult when I was smaller, we had no money and mother had a few relationship disasters that ranged from twattage to full-on violence. It's pretty hard on a kid growing up with little stability, without a father - not even an alienated/divorced father - this guy simply wanted nothing to do with me whatsoever.

At times I feel dread bitterness toward this 'man' and still some of that childhood confusion, which is why, occasionally, I ponder on this question: as a 42 year old man now (me) can I sue this guy? Can I track him down and force him to pay for... what? Neglect? Missing child support?
He must be 60 by now. Do I track him down and run crying into his hesitant arms? Do I track him down and smash his face in? Should I find him, shame him, fine him?? Questions questions..

I, unfortunately, agree with Cameron. But I understand the objections too.


That's a shame you grew up feeling like that and still have bad feelings. I wonder if it's because you're in your 40's? My eldest has never had contact with her father but is totally cool about it, she's 24. The most I'd say is she occasionally gets a bit curious and talks about tracking him down but not to have a go at him or even to build a relationship. Just plain nosiness.
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Re: 'runaway dads' should be 'shamed'

#31  Postby Ironclad » Jun 20, 2011 6:17 pm

I'm pleased she's ok. :thumbup:

EDITED: too much information, I guess...
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Re: 'runaway dads' should be 'shamed'

#32  Postby akigr8 » Jun 20, 2011 7:04 pm

I wouldn't want to have my drunken mom-beating biological father in my life, I'd probably have to lend him money or be his shoulder to cry on. My mom was actually so broken down that she was minutes away from aborting me because of him, she changed her mind in the waiting room.

Well, he's dead so need to create scenarios.
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Re: 'runaway dads' should be 'shamed'

#33  Postby Gallstones » Jun 20, 2011 7:46 pm

Paul G wrote:
Gallstones wrote:The delinquent father to my son was my husband. He owes more in child support than I owed when I assumed the mortgage on my house. He has never been denied visitation, but he only requests it when he needs our son to perform some job or other function that serves the father. This has been going on for 16 years.


And?


And what?
Last edited by Gallstones on Jun 20, 2011 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 'runaway dads' should be 'shamed'

#34  Postby j.mills » Jun 20, 2011 8:13 pm

Ironclad wrote:I have never known my father... this guy simply wanted nothing to do with me whatsoever.

FWIW, Ironclad, if you've never really known each other then his 'rejection' isn't something to take personally: you could be some other person entirely and his actions would have been identical. Presumably he didn't want a child. :dunno:
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Re: 'runaway dads' should be 'shamed'

#35  Postby Ironclad » Jun 20, 2011 8:51 pm

I presumed this too, for sure.
I did, however, take this rejection personally when I was told he had disowned his mother; she wrote a xmas card to my mother for several years. It just appeared to me an awful effort to cover ones tracks, or erasure, for a man in his (best guess) mid-40s.

I still ponder the litigation route; me and my mother lived a frugal life, I think that even if he could not support us something, even just an infrequent presence, would have made my path quite a different one. But it is tiresome to think about, i'll either have to bite that bullet or bury the emotions deeper still.

Thanks for your thoughts. :thumbup:
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Re: 'runaway dads' should be 'shamed'

#36  Postby KennyH » Jun 20, 2011 9:04 pm

Any man who has sex with a woman and does not think of the potential outcome, i.e. a child is being criminally neglectful in my view. Any man who has sex with a woman, gets her pregnant and fucks off without considering his responsibility should be punished in my view. Everything possible should be done to make sure the man has some - if possible 50% - of the responsibility for supporting the child. It isn't morally, socially, or for that matter financially acceptable to do otherwise.
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Re: 'runaway dads' should be 'shamed'

#37  Postby maik » Jun 22, 2011 2:39 pm

A man (or a woman), that is not responsible for his (or her) own actions, is naturally (or should be) socially criticized. If in "actions" we include "having a kid" and by "criticized" we mean "shame on him (or her)", then runaway parents should be ashamed. If in "parent" we include dads, then, indeed, "runaway dads should be ashamed". What's the big deal? That Cameron said it on father's day?
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Re: 'runaway dads' should be 'shamed'

#38  Postby byofrcs » Jun 22, 2011 2:49 pm

Say aren't a reasonable number of army types married with children ? Is he suggesting that the army rotate the married dads back to England for the weekend with their kids ?
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Re: 'runaway dads' should be 'shamed'

#39  Postby j.mills » Jun 22, 2011 6:20 pm

maik wrote:What's the big deal? That Cameron said it on father's day?

That Cameron thinks it's for him to dictate what the rest of us should say and do on a matter of conscience.
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