Scientology convicted in France

aban57 · #1 by **aban57** » Feb 02, 2012 9:03 am

http://www.20minutes.fr/societe/871922- ... erie-appel

(couldn't find an article in english, maybe it's too early).

The Paris appeal court confirmed the sentence of organized fraud for the 2 main french Scientology branches. The got a 600K euros fine, and 4 people in charge got prison (suspended sentence) and fines.

Wuffy · #2 by **Wuffy** » Feb 02, 2012 9:40 am

mattwilson · #3 by **mattwilson** » Feb 02, 2012 9:41 am

Google translator sorted it out for me

mrjonno · #4 by **mrjonno** » Feb 02, 2012 10:00 am

Always thought scientology was a useful unwilling ally it taking out the bigger cults like Christianity.

If it gets full rights as a religion and someone wants to ban it then they need to explain why other religions don't get banned as well (using arguments like its made up but christianity isnt would look great in court!)

wtargentina · #5 by **wtargentina** » Feb 02, 2012 2:34 pm

Oh happy day - number 1 in a fucking massive list I hope.....

Federico · #6 by **Federico** » Feb 02, 2012 3:22 pm

mrjonno wrote:Always thought scientology was a useful unwilling ally it taking out the bigger cults like Christianity.

If it gets full rights as a religion and someone wants to ban it then they need to explain why other religions don't get banned as well (using arguments like its made up but christianity isnt would look great in court!)

You have to finally accept the awful truth, mrjonno: Scientology is not a religion but a scam, which purpose is to make money.
In a previous post, I wrote this:

"I have been following this extremely dangerous, rich, and powerful sect for a while, so I'm glad you raised the issue, since keeping a searchlight shining on it all the time is the most we can do for the moment.

For those who always wanted to know everything about Scientology but were afraid to ask, I suggest this link: Operation Clambake.

mrjonno · #7 by **mrjonno** » Feb 02, 2012 3:33 pm

Religion/cult/scam/money making/control

How is scientology any different from other religions bar just being more efficient at what it does?

Sityl · #8 by **Sityl** » Feb 02, 2012 3:45 pm

Federico wrote:
mrjonno wrote:Always thought scientology was a useful unwilling ally it taking out the bigger cults like Christianity.

If it gets full rights as a religion and someone wants to ban it then they need to explain why other religions don't get banned as well (using arguments like its made up but christianity isnt would look great in court!)

You have to finally accept the awful truth, mrjonno: Scientology is not a religion but a scam, which purpose is to make money.
In a previous post, I wrote this:

"I have been following this extremely dangerous, rich, and powerful sect for a while, so I'm glad you raised the issue, since keeping a searchlight shining on it all the time is the most we can do for the moment.

For those who always wanted to know everything about Scientology but were afraid to ask, I suggest this link: Operation Clambake.

I got the feeling that mrjonno readily accepts the awful truth, he's merely pointing out that ALL religions are scams.

Scot Dutchy · #9 by **Scot Dutchy** » Feb 02, 2012 3:50 pm

mrjonno wrote:Religion/cult/scam/money making/control

How is scientology any different from other religions bar just being more efficient at what it does?

Discovered a more effecient way of sqeezing more money out of people. Passing a plate round is not an effecient way is it.
Organise courses and charge the earth for following them now that is a money spinner.

mrjonno · **#10** by **mrjonno** » Feb 02, 2012 3:51 pm

I got the feeling that mrjonno readily accepts the awful truth, he's merely pointing out that ALL religions are scams.

Yup I want to see Scientology faith schools just so we have an excuse to ban them all

ED209 · **#11** by **ED209** » Feb 02, 2012 4:11 pm

I find it amusing how many americans fucking hate scientology, and fucking love jesus so much. I don't mean in highbrow debate but on places like youtube and imdb, where people like Jason Lee get shitloads of criticism for being scientologists, presumably because they reject the teachings of our lord jesus H. christ.

Oh, and 'Operation Clambake'? :scratch:

LIFE · **#12** by **LIFE** » Feb 02, 2012 4:15 pm

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/02/02 ... onviction/
http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report_fr ... ng_1645164

DoctorE · **#13** by **DoctorE** » Feb 02, 2012 5:18 pm

A French appeals court on Thursday upheld the Church of Scientology's 2009 fraud conviction on charges it pressured members into paying large sums for questionable remedies.

The case began with a legal complaint by a young woman who said she took out loans and spent the equivalent of euro21,000 ($28,000) on books, courses and "purification packages" after being recruited in 1998. When she sought reimbursement and to leave the group, its leadership refused to allow either. She was among three eventual plaintiffs.

"It's a severe defeat for the Church of Scientology, which is hit at the very heart of its organization in France," Olivier Morice, a lawyer for the National Union of Associations Defending Family and Individual Victims of Sects, told reporters after the decision.

Karin Pouw, a spokeswoman for the church in Los Angeles, denounced Thursday's decision, calling it a "miscarriage of justice."

She said the group would appeal the decision to the Court of Cassation and plans to bring a complaint to the European Court of Human Rights. Another complaint is pending with a U.N. special rapporteur.

About 50 Scientologists — holding signs saying "No to a heresy trial" and "No to justice under pressure" — protested outside the Paris court hours after the decision.

Continues: http://abcnews.go.com/International/wir ... yrE34FDTWt

Fallible · **#14** by **Fallible** » Feb 02, 2012 5:20 pm

!	GENERAL MODNOTE Duplicate topics merged.

BrandySpears · **#15** by **BrandySpears** » Feb 02, 2012 5:36 pm

Sounds like a dispute over tithes and offerings. France doesn't like Scientology's unorthodox method of collecting coins from the gullible.

Islamophobia loving France should stop their Scientologyphobia and pay closer attention to Thechurchofjesuschristoflatterdaysaintsphobia running unbridled in that country.

j.mills · **#16** by **j.mills** » Feb 02, 2012 5:41 pm

Surely they'll appeal though?

Corneel · **#17** by **Corneel** » Feb 02, 2012 6:04 pm

j.mills wrote:Surely they'll appeal though?

This was already an appeal. The only recourse left within France is the Cour de Cassation. And they can only judge a case on procedures not on its merits (they can annul the ruling and order a (partial) retrial before another court). After that there is the European level (European Court of Human Rights).

mrjonno · **#18** by **mrjonno** » Feb 02, 2012 6:33 pm

Scientology in the UK is not legally a charity of religion its officially a business same for Israel for some reason, its banned in Germany totally. Not sure about other countries

aban57 · **#19** by **aban57** » Feb 03, 2012 7:47 am

BrandySpears wrote:Sounds like a dispute over tithes and offerings. France doesn't like Scientology's unorthodox method of collecting coins from the gullible.

Islamophobia loving France should stop their Scientologyphobia and pay closer attention to Thechurchofjesuschristoflatterdaysaintsphobia running unbridled in that country.

LOL

That's the only thing this comment inspires me.

BrandySpears wrote:Islamophobia loving France

?? really ? where did you get that from ?

BrandySpears wrote:Thechurchofjesuschristoflatterdaysaintsphobia running unbridled in that country.

Yeah sure, because America doesn't have a problem with a religion "running unbridled" :lol:

France is a secular country, where religion has been banned from all public places.

We surely have a few religion-based movements, but they're very small. A play representing jesus in a wierd position brought protests, but protesters were about 200/300.

And at least we don't have creationnists....

So don't think that what happens in your country happens in France too

Federico · **#20** by **Federico** » Feb 03, 2012 2:21 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
mrjonno wrote:Religion/cult/scam/money making/control

How is scientology any different from other religions bar just being more efficient at what it does?

Discovered a more effecient way of sqeezing more money out of people. Passing a plate round is not an effecient way is it.
Organise courses and charge the earth for following them now that is a money spinner.

Quite right, Scot, but not only.
Actually Scientology and the people who run it are a nasty web and its living-in spiders, always ready to suck the blood of the poor suckers who get cought in the web. And, if you try and run away or the family succeeds in freeing you, they try to force you back by day and night phone calls, by threats and actual mistreatments.

If you want to read and watch a real eye-opener, have a go at the interview of Tommy Davis, Head of Scientology, done for BBC News Panorama in May 2007 by John Sweeney, who lost his temper leading the interiew into a shouting match.