Security Guard arrested for removing man from women’s toilet

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Security Guard arrested for removing man from women’s toilet

#1  Postby the_5th_ape » May 25, 2016 3:13 pm

A female security guard working at a Washington, D.C. grocery store was arrested Monday afternoon for physically escorting a man out of the women’s restroom after he refused to leave because he identifies as a woman.

The shopper — a young, African-American male who identified himself as Ebony Belcher to local news outlets — reportedly passed the security guard on his way into the women’s restroom at a Giant grocery store in Northeast D.C.

After seeing Belcher walk into the women’s restroom, the security guard followed him in and ordered the man to leave. When he refused, the security guard had to physically escort him out of the women’s restroom.

Upon leaving the store, Belcher called police to have the security guard arrested. D.C. police confirmed to NBC4 Washington that the woman was arrested and charged with simple assault. D.C. police told TheDC that they are treating the incident as a “suspected hate crime.”

Belcher told NBC4 that the security guard told him: “You guys cannot keep coming in here and using our women’s restroom. They did not pass the law yet.”

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Re: Security Guard arrested for removing man from women’s toilet

#2  Postby Byron » May 25, 2016 10:24 pm

The progressive position is that any person who identifies themselves as transgender must be allowed into the restroom or locker room appropriate for their gender identity, regardless of their anatomy. Their self-identification cannot be questioned. Suspected predators should be dealt with not by exclusion, but under laws against harassment and voyeurism. It's not up for debate: to question this is to be trans-phobic.

Minus the accusations of phobia, I'm not saying that this is necessarily wrong, but it's a radical change, and I don't think many of its progressive advocates realize just how radical it is.
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Re: Security Guard arrested for removing man from women’s toilet

#3  Postby Agi Hammerthief » May 26, 2016 5:35 am

does the standard US toilet booth still have those huge gaps around the doors?
First time I went in a public toilet there I was like "WTF?" might as well gave glass doors.
* my (modified) emphasis ( or 'interpretation' )
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Re: Security Guard arrested for removing man from women’s toilet

#4  Postby Spinozasgalt » May 26, 2016 5:50 am

This is Ebony Belcher, apparently.
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Re: Security Guard arrested for removing man from women’s toilet

#5  Postby Rachel Bronwyn » May 26, 2016 8:24 am

Was she doing anything other than using the bathroom? No? Then it doesn't matter.
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Re: Security Guard arrested for removing man from women’s toilet

#6  Postby monkeyboy » May 26, 2016 8:36 am

Exactly. Security guard thinks someone is up to no good, take a stroll into the bathroom, check out what's occurring. If people are using the facilities as per usual and nobody is upsetting anyone, kind of like happens pretty much every day in bathrooms all around the world, then stay out of people's faces. Not being a dick isn't that hard with a bit of thought.
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Re: Security Guard arrested for removing man from women’s toilet

#7  Postby Briton » May 26, 2016 8:56 am

Byron wrote:The progressive position is that any person who identifies themselves as transgender must be allowed into the restroom or locker room appropriate for their gender identity, regardless of their anatomy. Their self-identification cannot be questioned. Suspected predators should be dealt with not by exclusion, but under laws against harassment and voyeurism. It's not up for debate: to question this is to be trans-phobic.

Minus the accusations of phobia, I'm not saying that this is necessarily wrong, but it's a radical change, and I don't think many of its progressive advocates realize just how radical it is.


What have transgender people been doing up to now? I suspect they have been using loos that match their gender identity; I've never seen a female gender looking person in a gents.
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Re: Security Guard arrested for removing man from women’s toilet

#8  Postby Byron » May 26, 2016 9:32 am

Briton wrote:What have transgender people been doing up to now? I suspect they have been using loos that match their gender identity; I've never seen a female gender looking person in a gents.

Of course: trans people simply used the appropriate facilities without bothering anyone; the moral panic about predators was a non-issue, stoked up by the religious right when they lost the equal marriage fight. They went looking for a new target, and being skilled and instinctive bullies, locked sights on transgender people.

In rebuttal, progressives have now staked out a position that, regardless of appearances, the second a person declares a gender identity, they have an absolute and unquestionable right to gain access to the corresponding facility. Perverts weren't masquerading as trans people before (those who've gone searching have found one possible case, and even that's debatable): once they get wind on the implications, they may well start.

I wouldn't be surprised if the self-proclaimed moral majority end up creating the very thing they denounced, and wouldn't be surprised if that was their plan all along.
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Re: Security Guard arrested for removing man from women’s toilet

#9  Postby Briton » May 26, 2016 9:54 am

Byron wrote:
Briton wrote:What have transgender people been doing up to now? I suspect they have been using loos that match their gender identity; I've never seen a female gender looking person in a gents.

Of course: trans people simply used the appropriate facilities without bothering anyone; the moral panic about predators was a non-issue, stoked up by the religious right when they lost the equal marriage fight. They went looking for a new target, and being skilled and instinctive bullies, locked sights on transgender people.

In rebuttal, progressives have now staked out a position that, regardless of appearances, the second a person declares a gender identity, they have an absolute and unquestionable right to gain access to the corresponding facility. Perverts weren't masquerading as trans people before (those who've gone searching have found one possible case, and even that's debatable): once they get wind on the implications, they may well start.

I wouldn't be surprised if the self-proclaimed moral majority end up creating the very thing they denounced, and wouldn't be surprised if that was their plan all along.


I doubt there will be any increase in sexual assaults in toilets. I suspect they are not good hunting grounds for sex offenders simply because they are so public. It would only take one case though for the right wing loons to say "we told you so".
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Re: Security Guard arrested for removing man from women’s toile

#10  Postby Byron » May 26, 2016 10:05 am

Briton wrote:I doubt there will be any increase in sexual assaults in toilets. I suspect they are not good hunting grounds for sex offenders simply because they are so public. It would only take one case though for the right wing loons to say "we told you so".

Exactly what I'm afraid will happen. Can also see groups of smirking dudebros using it to gain access to the women's locker room. Neither would've occurred before the bigoted North Carolina law: may be giving 'em too much credit, but I suspect that its cleverer supporters wanted to goad progressives into taking the positions they have, in order to stir up a backlash.
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Re: Security Guard arrested for removing man from women’s toilet

#11  Postby aliihsanasl » May 26, 2016 10:10 am

On such issues Turkish people are over prescriptive, I wish they would be the same on traffic rules, political life etc. In a cafe I go very often there are 1 cabin restrooms, one for male another for female. When there is someone inside s/he locks the door and second person cant come in strangly even if there is 3-4 guys in queue they never check female's one. I'm asking if there is someone in female's restroom and jump in while they're looking like Im alien. Isnt it weird to wait maybe 15 minutes for a 30 second activity. :smug:

I know there are people who can over react when they see you get out of female restroom but who cares. Just 500 meters away there is another Starbucks which have uni-sex restroom but rule is rule for some of us.
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Re: Security Guard arrested for removing man from women’s toilet

#12  Postby Spinozasgalt » May 26, 2016 11:12 am

I get it now. I was wondering why the original article read strangely to me. It refers to Belcher as a "man" or a "male" repeatedly. There's one mention that "he" identifies as a woman and that's it.
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Re: Security Guard arrested for removing man from women’s toile

#13  Postby purplerat » May 26, 2016 1:49 pm

Byron wrote:
Briton wrote:I doubt there will be any increase in sexual assaults in toilets. I suspect they are not good hunting grounds for sex offenders simply because they are so public. It would only take one case though for the right wing loons to say "we told you so".

Exactly what I'm afraid will happen. Can also see groups of smirking dudebros using it to gain access to the women's locker room. Neither would've occurred before the bigoted North Carolina law: may be giving 'em too much credit, but I suspect that its cleverer supporters wanted to goad progressives into taking the positions they have, in order to stir up a backlash.

What was to stop these smirking dudebros from simply throwing on a wig and dress and doing the same before? It's been a popular enough notion that they made an entire TV series on that very premise 30 years ago. Or if they just want a peek they could put holes in walls or the more modern approach of using hidden cameras. All of those are relatively just as easy and a lot less risky than just walking into a bathroom where you'll stick out like a sore thumb and be guaranteed to get caught if you start doing something beyond just being there.
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Re: Security Guard arrested for removing man from women’s toilet

#14  Postby purplerat » May 26, 2016 1:56 pm

Byron wrote:The progressive position is that any person who identifies themselves as transgender must be allowed into the restroom or locker room appropriate for their gender identity, regardless of their anatomy. Their self-identification cannot be questioned. Suspected predators should be dealt with not by exclusion, but under laws against harassment and voyeurism. It's not up for debate: to question this is to be trans-phobic.

Minus the accusations of phobia, I'm not saying that this is necessarily wrong, but it's a radical change, and I don't think many of its progressive advocates realize just how radical it is.

Is it radical? In western society we are fairly well non-segregated by gender. We let boys and girls go to the same schools, swim in the same pools, play together on the playground and we all go to the same beach. In a lot of those situations you'll see more skin than you would in a public restroom.

Certainly this would be a radical change in an Islamic country but I'm not so sure it's all that radical in countries where we are mostly non-segregated to begin with.
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#15  Postby I'm With Stupid » May 26, 2016 9:28 pm

The whole thing is ridiculous. Firstly, if someone's going to sexually assault someone in a public bathroom, I doubt they're going to give much of a shit about being in the wrong one. That's not really the main crime in that situation. Secondly, if someone's going to attempt to use it as an excuse to look at members of the opposite sex, how exactly? There are cubicles. And finally, if this really was an issue, we'd already have a massive issue with gay people sharing bathrooms with the gender they find attractive. And to my knowledge, there's not a vast number of incidents of gay people perving in public bathrooms. Maybe we can have separate bathrooms for everyone? One for straight men, one for straight women, one for gay men, gay women, MTF transgender, FTM transgender, one for children just in case a paedophile happens to be sharing a bathroom with them... Or maybe we can just acknowledge that no matter how attractive you are, nobody wants to see you taking a shit.
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Re: Security Guard arrested for removing man from women’s toilet

#16  Postby purplerat » May 26, 2016 9:35 pm

I'm With Stupid wrote:The whole thing is ridiculous. Firstly, if someone's going to sexually assault someone in a public bathroom, I doubt they're going to give much of a shit about being in the wrong one. That's not really the main crime in that situation.

:this:

The irony is that, in the US at least, many of the same people arguing to police bathroom usage will make the same argument presented above in favor of allowing guns everywhere. They'll argue that a person should be able to carry a gun wherever they like because if they are going to commit a crime with it they wouldn't care about it being illegal to carry the gun in the first place.

It seems they are more afraid of penises than guns.
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Re: Security Guard arrested for removing man from women’s toilet

#17  Postby ScholasticSpastic » May 26, 2016 9:40 pm

purplerat wrote:
It seems they are more afraid of penises than guns.

Most people, I think I'd rather see their gun than their penis. And I'm very glad there are more guys who are excited about showing me their guns than guys excited to show me their penises. That said, I'd rather there were a lot less waving about of penises and surrogate penises.
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Re: Security Guard arrested for removing man from women’s toilet

#18  Postby Byron » May 26, 2016 9:45 pm

Purplerat, allowing people with the anatomy of the opposite sex into gender-segregated changing rooms is, at the least, an innovation, and it doesn't just cause knuckle dragging hicks concern: as 'Time' report, it's become an issue even in NYC.

Trans people should absolutely have access to the facilities that match their gender identity, but access needs handling with care, and there needs to be some way to exclude people reasonably suspected of fraud, even if it's so tightly drawn it's rarely used. Yes, jerks have always snuck into locker rooms, but their misbehavior wasn't used to whip up fear of an entire community. People didn't care about equal marriage 'cause it didn't affect them: this does, and if the govt. plays it wrong, the fundies may have their backlash, which can only hurt trans people.
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Re: Security Guard arrested for removing man from women’s toilet

#19  Postby purplerat » May 26, 2016 9:56 pm

Byron wrote:Purplerat, allowing people with the anatomy of the opposite sex into gender-segregated changing rooms is, at the least, an innovation, and it doesn't just cause knuckle dragging hicks concern: as 'Time' report, it's become an issue even in NYC.

Trans people should absolutely have access to the facilities that match their gender identity, but access needs handling with care, and there needs to be some way to exclude people reasonably suspected of fraud, even if it's so tightly drawn it's rarely used. Yes, jerks have always snuck into locker rooms, but their misbehavior wasn't used to whip up fear of an entire community. People didn't care about equal marriage 'cause it didn't affect them: this does, and if the govt. plays it wrong, the fundies may have their backlash, which can only hurt trans people.

An innovation maybe but nothing too dramatic.

I was speaking with a coworker earlier today - completely unrelated to the current trans/bathroom topic - about high school gym classes, specifically pool usage. Apparently not too long ago it was a pretty big deal about not letting boys and girls swim in the pool at the same time during gym. I guess being half clothed or less in such close proximity was a big concern back then. People got over it though. They'll got over this.

The idea that people are any more going to use access to bathrooms or changing rooms to commit assaults is unfounded. We've gone from segregated to non-segregated in so many areas and it's not been a big deal yet.
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Re: Security Guard arrested for removing man from women’s toilet

#20  Postby purplerat » May 26, 2016 9:59 pm

FWIW, I think it's giving anti-trans folks too much credit to think they somehow painted progressives into this corner of staking the position that segregated bathrooms are unnecessary.

I've heard that position long before it was about gender identity and even initially balked myself before thinking it through and realizing it wasn't necessary. The response most people seemed to have was something along the lines of "ya, it's kind of dumb but nobody cares enough to bother changing it". Well now somebody does care.
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