Serena Williams accuses referee of sexism

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Serena Williams accuses referee of sexism

#1  Postby aban57 » Sep 10, 2018 2:28 pm

From here :

Serena Williams has accused an umpire of sexism and treating her more harshly than men as she used a press conference to double down on her earlier on-court tirade at the official during her US Open final defeat to Japan’s Naomi Osaka.

Williams was cited by official Carlos Ramos for three code violations during her 6-2, 6-4 loss to the 20-year-old Osaka on Saturday: for getting coaching signals; for breaking her racket, which cost her a point; and for calling the chair umpire a thief, which cost her a game.


All 3 violations are undisputable. Accusing the ref of sexism is just dishonest.
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Re: Serena Williams accuses referee of sexism

#2  Postby laklak » Sep 10, 2018 2:31 pm

Has she played the race card yet?
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Re: Serena Williams accuses referee of sexism

#3  Postby aban57 » Sep 10, 2018 2:32 pm

laklak wrote:Has she played the race card yet?


Race card is so 2017.
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Re: Serena Williams accuses referee of sexism

#4  Postby Alan B » Sep 10, 2018 2:42 pm

Men play five sets. Women play three sets.

Make women play five sets. (Or men play three sets...)
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Re: Serena Williams accuses referee of sexism

#5  Postby Fallible » Sep 10, 2018 2:53 pm

Yep, whether or not this incident was sexist, the world of pro tennis gets off on the wrong foot to start with. They should play the same number of sets as the men.
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Re: Serena Williams accuses referee of sexism

#6  Postby I'm With Stupid » Sep 10, 2018 3:38 pm

The reporting of this thing is bullshit. So many people saying that she was docked a game for "calling the referee a thief." She wasn't, she was docked a game after a third violation, after about 15 minutes of continuous ranting at the referee, basically accusing him of cheating and "stealing a point" from her, demanding an apology, threatening that he "will never referee one of my games again." I'm frankly amazed she wasn't sanctioned sooner. Yet people are reporting this like she was sanctioned for some isolated comment.

I'm also amazed she hasn't since come out an apologized, if nothing else, for ruining the first grand slam win of a young tennis player. I guess successful sports people aren't known for being good losers. But this is one of the worst examples of someone having a temper tantrum, essentially because they were getting soundly beat by an inferior opponent, that I've seen in a while.
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Re: Serena Williams accuses referee of sexism

#7  Postby Fallible » Sep 10, 2018 3:43 pm

Her complaint has also been upheld by the Tennis Association or whatever it's called, so I doubt she will apologise.
John Grant wrote:They say 'let go, let go, let go, you must learn to let go'.
If I hear that fucking phrase again, this baby's gonna blow
Into a million itsy bitsy tiny pieces, don't you know,
Just like my favourite scene in Scanners .
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Re: Serena Williams accuses referee of sexism

#8  Postby Keep It Real » Sep 10, 2018 3:48 pm

This is far and away the most entertaining thing that has happened in tennis, as a spectator sport, since "You cannot be serious!"

Talk about a repetitive game. Makes dishwater look like a flight of iridescent hummingbirds.
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Re: Serena Williams accuses referee of sexism

#9  Postby laklak » Sep 10, 2018 3:51 pm

For those who find tennis too exciting there's always golf.
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Re: Serena Williams accuses referee of sexism

#10  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Sep 10, 2018 3:57 pm

aban57 wrote:From here :

Serena Williams has accused an umpire of sexism and treating her more harshly than men as she used a press conference to double down on her earlier on-court tirade at the official during her US Open final defeat to Japan’s Naomi Osaka.

Williams was cited by official Carlos Ramos for three code violations during her 6-2, 6-4 loss to the 20-year-old Osaka on Saturday: for getting coaching signals; for breaking her racket, which cost her a point; and for calling the chair umpire a thief, which cost her a game.


All 3 violations are undisputable. Accusing the ref of sexism is just dishonest.

Her performance towards the judge was really rather nutty imo.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Serena Williams accuses referee of sexism

#11  Postby Thommo » Sep 10, 2018 3:58 pm

laklak wrote:Has she played the race card yet?


She hasn't but others have on her behalf.

Honestly, I think this is just people getting carried away after the Alizé Cornet incident, which clearly was a sexist double standard.
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Re: Serena Williams accuses referee of sexism

#12  Postby Thommo » Sep 10, 2018 3:59 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:Her performance towards the judge was really rather nutty imo.


The paper today pointed out she has form for this sort of thing too, having previously threatened a line judge with having a ball stuffed down her throat (for making a correct call).
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Re: Serena Williams accuses referee of sexism

#13  Postby laklak » Sep 10, 2018 4:00 pm

I remember John McEnroe. You, madam, are no John McEnroe.
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Re: Serena Williams accuses referee of sexism

#14  Postby GrahamH » Sep 10, 2018 4:01 pm

I haven't watched it, I'm not a tennis fan, but it seems there could be more to it than just Serena losing it.

Billie Jean King wrote:The cause and effect of this unsatisfactory sequence of events are pretty clear.
The cause was the inconsistent application of a rule — and the rule itself — that led to the warning that chair umpire Carlos Ramos gave to Williams for coaching coming from her player’s box: If tennis would catch up with the 21st century and allow coaching on every point, the situation on the court would never have escalated to the level of absurdity that it did. Every player, after all, still has to play the match — she has to execute on every point, and she should never be held responsible for the actions of a coach. Coaching happens all the time, at all levels of tennis. So why not just allow it?

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/tennis/ ... spartanntp
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Re: Serena Williams accuses referee of sexism

#15  Postby I'm With Stupid » Sep 10, 2018 4:05 pm

Fallible wrote:Her complaint has also been upheld by the Tennis Association or whatever it's called, so I doubt she will apologise.

Has it? I don't really know how tennis is organised, but while the Women's Tennis Association came out in her defence, she was also fined $17k for her behaviour, which doesn't suggest that her complaint has been upheld by anyone that matters. I've heard of lots of anecdotal evidence of male players engaging in similar behaviour without much actual statistical evidence that would suggest a gender discrepancy.

The BBC article on the topic gives the following info:

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As I said, I don't really watch tennis that much, but I've never seen another player rant for that long before, and certainly not after 2 prior offences.
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Re: Serena Williams accuses referee of sexism

#16  Postby GrahamH » Sep 10, 2018 4:10 pm

laklak wrote:I remember John McEnroe. You, madam, are no John McEnroe.


If you are ranking them on petulance you are right.

It's easy to find all-time rankings that put Serena ahead or on par with McEnroe and she has won more Grand Slam singles titles by a big margin.
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Re: Serena Williams accuses referee of sexism

#17  Postby GrahamH » Sep 10, 2018 4:17 pm

I'm With Stupid wrote:
Fallible wrote:Her complaint has also been upheld by the Tennis Association or whatever it's called, so I doubt she will apologise.

Has it? I don't really know how tennis is organised, but while the Women's Tennis Association came out in her defence, she was also fined $17k for her behaviour, which doesn't suggest that her complaint has been upheld by anyone that matters.



It is possible for her complaint to be justified or "upheld" and her broader onduct to be penalised. AIUI her core complaint is that she was penalised for something more harshly than a male player would be treated in a similar circumtance. She could be right about that but still be wrong in how she reacted to it.Various commentators have concluded just that.
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Re: Serena Williams accuses referee of sexism

#18  Postby Fallible » Sep 10, 2018 4:18 pm

I'm With Stupid wrote:
Fallible wrote:Her complaint has also been upheld by the Tennis Association or whatever it's called, so I doubt she will apologise.

Has it? I don't really know how tennis is organised, but while the Women's Tennis Association came out in her defence, she was also fined $17k for her behaviour, which doesn't suggest that her complaint has been upheld by anyone that matters.


Ah, OK, perhaps that's what I heard then, that they'd come out in support of her. I stand corrected.

I've heard of lots of anecdotal evidence of male players engaging in similar behaviour without much actual statistical evidence that would suggest a gender discrepancy.

The BBC article on the topic gives the following info:

Image

As I said, I don't really watch tennis that much, but I've never seen another player rant for that long before, and certainly not after 2 prior offences.


I haven't seen the whole incident, but what I did see certainly was rather OTT.
John Grant wrote:They say 'let go, let go, let go, you must learn to let go'.
If I hear that fucking phrase again, this baby's gonna blow
Into a million itsy bitsy tiny pieces, don't you know,
Just like my favourite scene in Scanners .
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Re: Serena Williams accuses referee of sexism

#19  Postby GrahamH » Sep 10, 2018 4:24 pm

I'm With Stupid wrote:
Fallible wrote:Her complaint has also been upheld by the Tennis Association or whatever it's called, so I doubt she will apologise.

Has it? I don't really know how tennis is organised, but while the Women's Tennis Association came out in her defence, she was also fined $17k for her behaviour, which doesn't suggest that her complaint has been upheld by anyone that matters. I've heard of lots of anecdotal evidence of male players engaging in similar behaviour without much actual statistical evidence that would suggest a gender discrepancy.

The BBC article on the topic gives the following info:

Image

As I said, I don't really watch tennis that much, but I've never seen another player rant for that long before, and certainly not after 2 prior offences.


That is an interesting graphic that article tends to support William's contention. But we would need to know how many code violations actually occurred as well as how they were dealt with establish if the coaching penalty was fair or not.
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Re: Serena Williams accuses referee of sexism

#20  Postby GrahamH » Sep 10, 2018 4:28 pm

This article offesr some different numbers that contradict Williams' initial complaint.

As for the notion, raised by many from both inside and outside the world of professional tennis, that Williams was singled out because she’s a woman: Earlier this year, Ramos penalized both Novak Djokovic and Marco Cecchinato for coaching—and the stats from this particular installment of the U.S. Open, at least, don’t support this argument either: Of the 32 code violations called, 23 of them were charged to men and only nine to women.

https://www.vogue.com/article/serena-wi ... aomi-osaka
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