Snap UK General Election

June 8th 2017

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Re: Snap UK General Election

#481  Postby chairman bill » May 19, 2017 12:04 pm

solazy wrote:Didn't watch the leaders' debate, but I imagine it was artificial and boring.
I'm sure they pretended to be friends even when they dislike each other.
What do I do? I'm not any political colour, like many, but I feel obliged to vote.
In the past I've voted for various parties, but what difference does my vote make anyway?
I voted Lib in 2010, Tory in 2015 and for Brexit in 2016. Now I'm being asked to vote again.
France votes in a new party. I'd consider that.
If I don't vote why should I not have a right to criticize the winning party?


Of course you have the right to criticise the winning party. What you can't really do is moan about them & expect any sympathy from anyone else. As for your vote, it makes all the difference. Votes get counted & together they are enormously powerful. Not voting weakens the case for whichever party/candidate you would otherwise have voted for.

As for how you vote, that's entirely up to you, but you should vote. The outcome might make precious little difference to you, which places you in a hugely privileged position. There are millions of people in the UK, for whom not bothering to vote is a privilege they do not have. Children living in poverty because of government policies. Disabled people having the money they need to live a half-decent, dignified existence. Frail, elderly people, missing out on proper domicilliary care to enable them to continue living in their own homes. Sick people lying on hospital trolleys, waiting hours before they're seen in A&E, or sick people being left on waiting lists, suffering in pain & discomfort because the hospital can only manage emergency surgeries. People with learning disability, isolated and lonely, because the government has shut down their day centres.

Of course, you might not give a toss about these people, in which case feel free to not vote, or vote for a party that will simply continue the pain & suffering. But you can be bloody sure that your vote matters; it either adds to the fight against such inequity, or it is happy to support these things.The choice is very much your own.
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Re: Snap UK General Election

#482  Postby solazy » May 19, 2017 12:46 pm

I agree that everyone who can vote should do so and be thankful to live in a liberal democracy.
One problem I identify is that my constituency is never going to vote Labour. In 1983 where was an astonishing 33,000 majority of Tory over Labour. I would happily vote Labour this time but not for Corbyn. Yet the first past the post system is better for the UK I feel sure. I think many people share my views.
If I'm around at 21:30 on the 8th June I'll think about it, but only because the polling station is in walking distance.
How do you feel about people who spoil their paper?
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Re: Snap UK General Election

#483  Postby chairman bill » May 19, 2017 1:01 pm

solazy wrote:How do you feel about people who spoil their paper?


Marginally better than those that simply can't be arsed to vote. But if you're not living in Corbyn's Islington constituency, you're not voting for him. Voting Labour is voting for a manifesto, not a personality, policies not an individual.

I notice that May is saying that she needs to have a strong mandate to negotiate Brexit, yet she isn't negotiating Brexit, her Brexit secretary, David Davies is doing that. If Corbyn was PM, he wouldn't be negotiating Brexit either, Keir Starmer would be. And that is surely the point; it's a team effort.
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Re: Snap UK General Election

#484  Postby minininja » May 20, 2017 11:28 am

This is interesting and not something I've seen before. One party telling another to change their manifesto. Obviously there's always plenty of criticism of the other's policies, but not an outright demand that they be changed. And given the tendency for rapid u-turns from the Tories over the last couple years whenever they've come up with a policy that didn't land well it's going to be interesting to see what happens.

But the things is, May has staked her whole position and possibly career on this. It's Teresa's manifesto not merely a Conservative one, and it all depends on her personally being seen as "strong and stable". She now can't be seen to move an inch on the sort of policy that the party would normally kick into the long grass, otherwise the whole facade will crumble.

Jeremy Corbyn calls on Theresa May to drop 'anti-pensioner package'

“Where the Tories look to divide, Labour seeks to bring people together,” the Labour leader will say on Saturday. “The Tories are now trying to pitch the young against the old. Their manifesto is a typical nasty party attempt to set generations against each other.

“For pensioners, they offer a triple-whammy of misery, ending the triple-lock which protects pensioner incomes, means-testing the winter fuel allowance and slapping a ‘dementia tax’ on those who need social care by making them pay for it with their homes.

“Some claim that cutting support for the elderly is necessary to give more help to the young. But young people are being offered no hope by the Tories either – loaded up with tuition fee debts and next to no chance of [owning] a home of their own.”

He said Labour stood for unity across all ages and regions.

“It is simply wrong to claim that young people can only be given a fair deal at the expense of the old, or vice versa. We all depend on each other. That’s why we are calling on the Tories to drop their anti-pensioner package immediately – older people should not be used as a political football.”
[Disclaimer - if this is comes across like I think I know what I'm talking about, I want to make it clear that I don't. I'm just trying to get my thoughts down]
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Re: Snap UK General Election

#485  Postby chairman bill » May 20, 2017 9:09 pm

Latest polling

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Re: Snap UK General Election

#487  Postby ronmcd » May 20, 2017 9:25 pm

Meanwhile, in East Renrewshire ... ex Better Together Chief and Tory candidate ... Labour candidate Bliar McDougall, unveils his new poster.

(it's genuine, amazingly)

Image
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Re: Snap UK General Election

#488  Postby Calilasseia » May 21, 2017 4:33 pm

Will someone tell senior Labour figures that a cordial relationship with the SNP is an opportunity? A gold plated one to fuck the Tories that they should be grasping with the same enthusiasm (though not, of course, motivation) a Tory MP grasps a non-executive directorship from a private healthcare company?
Signature temporarily on hold until I can find a reliable image host ...
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Re: Snap UK General Election

#489  Postby mrjonno » May 21, 2017 7:32 pm

Calilasseia wrote:Will someone tell senior Labour figures that a cordial relationship with the SNP is an opportunity? A gold plated one to fuck the Tories that they should be grasping with the same enthusiasm (though not, of course, motivation) a Tory MP grasps a non-executive directorship from a private healthcare company?



Why would a unionist Labour party want to get in bed with a separatist SNP. Which country you want to belong to is a hell of a lot more important than well any other issue including tax, pensions or the NHS?. No one votes for Sinn Fein due to their 'progressive' policies, they vote for them due to them being pro-Catholic and republican
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Re: Snap UK General Election

#490  Postby ronmcd » May 21, 2017 8:39 pm

mrjonno wrote:
Calilasseia wrote:Will someone tell senior Labour figures that a cordial relationship with the SNP is an opportunity? A gold plated one to fuck the Tories that they should be grasping with the same enthusiasm (though not, of course, motivation) a Tory MP grasps a non-executive directorship from a private healthcare company?



Why would a unionist Labour party want to get in bed with a separatist SNP. Which country you want to belong to is a hell of a lot more important than well any other issue including tax, pensions or the NHS?. No one votes for Sinn Fein due to their 'progressive' policies, they vote for them due to them being pro-Catholic and republican

The two sides in the Scottish constitutional debate don't and haven't killed each other, and they aren't split by religion.

For Fuck's sake.
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Re: Snap UK General Election

#492  Postby mrjonno » May 21, 2017 8:41 pm

Yeah I'm sure independence is just a minor factor in Scottish politics and people are far more interested in what income tax rates will be :doh:
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Re: Snap UK General Election

#493  Postby ronmcd » May 21, 2017 8:45 pm

Let me put it this way - staunch unionists in Scotland switch to supporting independence (and SNP). Former SNP supporters switch to supporting Labour, or Tory etc.

You can see, can't you, the difference between this and Northern Ireland? Surely?
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Re: Snap UK General Election

#494  Postby mrjonno » May 21, 2017 8:52 pm

Are you seriously saying unionists vote SNP because they of their left wing politics and people who want independence vote Tory because they like Tory economic policies, get real

There hasn't been any real violence in NI for 20 years but Sinn Fein is clearly the catholic republic party and the DUP being the prot unionist party with left/right simply having no real meaning there as in Scotland
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Re: Snap UK General Election

#495  Postby Tracer Tong » May 21, 2017 9:05 pm

mrjonno wrote:

There hasn't been any real violence in NI for 20 years...


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Re: Snap UK General Election

#496  Postby ronmcd » May 21, 2017 10:01 pm

mrjonno wrote:Are you seriously saying unionists vote SNP because they of their left wing politics and people who want independence vote Tory because they like Tory economic policies, get real

There hasn't been any real violence in NI for 20 years but Sinn Fein is clearly the catholic republic party and the DUP being the prot unionist party with left/right simply having no real meaning there as in Scotland

No, I'm *clearly* saying that the constitutional debate in Scotland is a peaceful debate based on normal political arguments, hence people do move in both directions over time (although I believe the long term trend will be towards independence ... I might be wrong).

Comparing that debate to the sectarian divide in NI is ... whatever.
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Re: Snap UK General Election

#497  Postby Byron » May 21, 2017 11:20 pm

Labour's (well, SLab's, Labour-proper couldn't give much of a shit) loathing of the SNP's rooted in entitlement and envy, not constitutional principle. Scotland was viewed as their fiefdom, and the SNP "stole" it. Base as that.

Scotland can declare independence whenever she likes, and the SNP will do so when they think they can win a referendum. Meantime, so long as the SNP park the constitutional issue, which they'll do so long as Scotland remains in the EEA, it benefits Labour to work with another social democratic party. One day, they may even see that.
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Re: Snap UK General Election

#498  Postby chairman bill » May 22, 2017 3:45 pm

Labour support surges in Wales with 16-point shift towards Jeremy Corbyn's party
The party has overtaken the Tories in Wales and has a 10 point lead
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-poll-wales-general-election-2017-16-point-shift-swing-a7749786.html
Support for Labour has surged in Wales, with a massive 16-point shift in support towards Jeremy Corbyn's party, the latest poll shows.

A poll by YouGov just two weeks ago showed Welsh Labour trailing Theresa May's party, but a stunning reversal now puts Labour 10 points ahead.

The YouGov Welsh political barometer has Labour on 44 per cent up 9 per cent on two weeks ago and the Tories on 34 per cent down 7 per cent. (cont.)
“There is a rumour going around that I have found God. I think this is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.” Terry Pratchett
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Re: Snap UK General Election

#499  Postby minininja » May 22, 2017 5:15 pm

minininja wrote:This is interesting and not something I've seen before. One party telling another to change their manifesto. Obviously there's always plenty of criticism of the other's policies, but not an outright demand that they be changed. And given the tendency for rapid u-turns from the Tories over the last couple years whenever they've come up with a policy that didn't land well it's going to be interesting to see what happens.

But the things is, May has staked her whole position and possibly career on this. It's Teresa's manifesto not merely a Conservative one, and it all depends on her personally being seen as "strong and stable". She now can't be seen to move an inch on the sort of policy that the party would normally kick into the long grass, otherwise the whole facade will crumble.


:rofl:

I mean I saw it coming but I didn't think it would be that good.
Labour says social care U-turn illustrates 'weak and unstable leadership'

Going back on a manifesto commitment before the election, - when was the last time a party did that? Strong and stable Theresa, what a fucking joke.
[Disclaimer - if this is comes across like I think I know what I'm talking about, I want to make it clear that I don't. I'm just trying to get my thoughts down]
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Re: Snap UK General Election

#500  Postby ronmcd » May 22, 2017 6:14 pm

Just saw May being questioned at whatever fake event the Tories were running today, questioned by Michael Crick of C4 news she FLAPPED FLAP FLAP FLAPPITY FLAP :smile:
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