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Formerly Anthony Kennedy: US supreme court justice to retire. Goodbye Roe v Wade, Obergefell

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Re: Anthony Kennedy: US supreme court justice to retire

#41  Postby Cito di Pense » Jun 28, 2018 1:29 pm

Fallible wrote:Good lord, I don’t care. If you think current country of residence precludes you from bias in favour of your country of origin, visit the Costa del Sol. If you don’t think it’s necessary, why do you care he ‘forgot’ to say ‘also’? And no, I don’t see that as the difference between what you and OldSkeptic do, mainly because what you just did is what OldSkeptic does.


Oh, now you don't care. Thanks for clearing that up. My bias goes against my country of origin. Your bias is your own business, but if you live where I think you live, your (adopted?) country is down the dumper, too, along about 2019.

I entered this thread replying to lak lak remarking that anyone's surprise at what is happening with SCOTUS is overdone.

Listen to old Scot Dutchy. The only country worth anything in the world today is NL, and I somewhat agree with him today. I don't like the way bicyclists there act like they own the place. You can't have everything, but the only greenhouse gases they give off are farts.
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Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Anthony Kennedy: US supreme court justice to retire

#42  Postby Fallible » Jun 28, 2018 1:52 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
Fallible wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
aban57 wrote:
No, I think your lack of argument answers it all.


Well, now you want arguments. I'm going with the empirical, so you should be all about presenting evidence for your view. But that will be selective attention, I'm just betting.

How is it that you don't see there's no conclusion to this discussion except your complaining about somebody's lack of argument? That means this is philosophy, and not science.

aban57 wrote:That's a position of belief, not one of looking at facts


What fucking facts have you tried to present?


This is the kind of stuff theists say when someone points out they don’t have an argument. You’d call it shifting the burden of proof in that situation.


What was I arguing for? I forget. When I need to present facts, I present AGW, or something like that. I ain't one o' them nasty climate change denialists. Was I arguing there were no social progress achievements in human history? No, I don't think I was. In fact, the mining of petroleum has been one of the great social achievements of human history, in terms of improving living standards for lots of folks. If, that is, you don't have it in for oil barons.


Did I say that you were arguing for something? No, I don’t think I did. I made the observation that if a theist were to try to make a comment on their lack of an argument a reason to ask the commenter for facts of their own as though they were making a concrete argument rather than simply commenting, you’d be all over it like you on an opinion. Back to my point - aban was commenting on your post, not making an argument of his own. The only evidence he needs is the evidence of what you said, plus knowledge of what words mean. If you don’t hold out hope for ground apes despite instances of positive change, you’re not going with the empirical because you are excluding whole chunks of data. For some reason you can express an opinion, but cyghost is held to a different standard. Why is it that you feel his comments warrant a homily on the pointlessness of expressing opinions but you can scatter yours about the place like spoor?
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Re: Anthony Kennedy: US supreme court justice to retire

#43  Postby Cito di Pense » Jun 28, 2018 1:56 pm

Fallible wrote:Why is it that you feel his comments warrant a homily on the pointlessness of expressing opinions but you can scatter yours about the place like spoor?


Such are the hazards of issuing opinions. I can dish it out, and I can take it. But you do have it there: It's not that I don't accept that my opinions are pointless; if someone else has a problem finding out his opinions are pointless (as opposed to all this humanist claptrap), that's entirely his problem. The same thing happens with theists when they hear that their brand of humanism is pointless. Perhaps you can see some parallels with what has happened with old cyghost.

Fallible wrote:If you don’t hold out hope for ground apes despite instances of positive change, you’re not going with the empirical because you are excluding whole chunks of data.


It's not as if failing to hold out hope for the ground apes is some kind of crime. When people see stuff and it gives them hope, it just means like like feeling hopeful. When people have actually done something to create positive change, instead of ranting like we do on an obscure forum, then they have a basis for their hope. I'm sure you have generated much hope from all the good therapeutic work you've done, so you have your reasons.
Last edited by Cito di Pense on Jun 28, 2018 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Anthony Kennedy: US supreme court justice to retire

#44  Postby laklak » Jun 28, 2018 1:58 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:Panic on the switchboard, tongues are in knots
Some come out in sympathy, some come out in spots...



Well don't go around tonight
It's bound to take your life
There's a bad moon on the rise.


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Re: Anthony Kennedy: US supreme court justice to retire

#45  Postby Fallible » Jun 28, 2018 2:00 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
Fallible wrote:Good lord, I don’t care. If you think current country of residence precludes you from bias in favour of your country of origin, visit the Costa del Sol. If you don’t think it’s necessary, why do you care he ‘forgot’ to say ‘also’? And no, I don’t see that as the difference between what you and OldSkeptic do, mainly because what you just did is what OldSkeptic does.


Oh, now you don't care. Thanks for clearing that up.


No, not just now. I never have cared for what you feel will work as an excuse for how the standards you apply to everyone else are not to be applied to you.

My bias goes against my country of origin.


So you say.

Your bias is your own business, but if you live where I think you live, your (adopted?) country is down the dumper, too, along about 2019.


Is tu quoque your fallacy of the day or something? I don’t give a shit about how many different ways you can whine ‘you too!’ and blow a raspberry. We are back where we started. I don’t need to comment on how my ‘adopted’ country is soon heading down the shitter even when I’m commenting on someone else’s country being shitter-bound. Even less so when I’m not doing that, but am commenting on your OldSkeptic impersonation.
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Re: Anthony Kennedy: US supreme court justice to retire

#46  Postby Fallible » Jun 28, 2018 2:01 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
Fallible wrote:Why is it that you feel his comments warrant a homily on the pointlessness of expressing opinions but you can scatter yours about the place like spoor?


Such are the hazards of issuing opinions. I can dish it out, and I can take it. But you do have it there: It's not that I don't accept that my opinions are pointless; if someone else has a problem finding out his opinions are pointless (as opposed to all this humanist claptrap), that's entirely his problem. The same thing happens with theists when they hear that their brand of humanism is pointless. Perhaps you can see some parallels with what has happened with old cyghost.


Why do you think you told him anything he didn’t already know?
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Re: Anthony Kennedy: US supreme court justice to retire

#47  Postby aban57 » Jun 28, 2018 2:22 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
aban57 wrote:
Missing the point and shifting discussion, AGAIN.


Oh, you could always tell me what you think your point is, instead of screeching. I'm just a cynic; sue me.


Explaining it a 4th time you mean ? What's the point, if you didn't get it the first 3 times ?
Or maybe it's just that you won't admit you were wrong in the first place. :dunno:
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Re: Anthony Kennedy: US supreme court justice to retire

#48  Postby Fallible » Jun 28, 2018 3:01 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
Fallible wrote:Why is it that you feel his comments warrant a homily on the pointlessness of expressing opinions but you can scatter yours about the place like spoor?


Such are the hazards of issuing opinions. I can dish it out, and I can take it. But you do have it there: It's not that I don't accept that my opinions are pointless; if someone else has a problem finding out his opinions are pointless (as opposed to all this humanist claptrap), that's entirely his problem. The same thing happens with theists when they hear that their brand of humanism is pointless. Perhaps you can see some parallels with what has happened with old cyghost.

Fallible wrote:If you don’t hold out hope for ground apes despite instances of positive change, you’re not going with the empirical because you are excluding whole chunks of data.


It's not as if failing to hold out hope for the ground apes is some kind of crime. When people see stuff and it gives them hope, it just means like like feeling hopeful. When people have actually done something to create positive change, instead of ranting like we do on an obscure forum, then they have a basis for their hope. I'm sure you have generated much hope from all the good therapeutic work you've done, so you have your reasons.


Editing your post substantially after it has been replied to is verboten for a reason. I don’t have the time to keep going back to check if you have snuck something wrong or trolly in under the radar after I’ve replied once.
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Re: Anthony Kennedy: US supreme court justice to retire

#49  Postby theropod » Jun 28, 2018 3:08 pm

So the proceeding two pages are about the thread subject in what way? This old geezer can’t see the connection?

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Re: Anthony Kennedy: US supreme court justice to retire

#50  Postby Cito di Pense » Jun 28, 2018 3:18 pm

theropod wrote:So the proceeding two pages are about the thread subject in what way? This old geezer can’t see the connection?


It's a panic about the conservative tendencies being realized in the US. Some folks think there is still reason for hope. Their cup runneth over anyone who rains on that parade.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Anthony Kennedy: US supreme court justice to retire

#51  Postby theropod » Jun 28, 2018 3:45 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
theropod wrote:So the proceeding two pages are about the thread subject in what way? This old geezer can’t see the connection?


It's a panic about the conservative tendencies being realized in the US. Some folks think there is still reason for hope. Their cup runneth over anyone who rains on that parade.


Yeah, I get that, but the topic has seriously drifted to personal opinions with little, if any, relationship to the subject matter. Trust me, others share my assessment that the thread has become a defacto debate outside the scope of the topic.

The “Get a room” comment seems appropriate, IMO.

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Re: Anthony Kennedy: US supreme court justice to retire

#52  Postby Cito di Pense » Jun 28, 2018 4:52 pm

theropod wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
theropod wrote:So the proceeding two pages are about the thread subject in what way? This old geezer can’t see the connection?


It's a panic about the conservative tendencies being realized in the US. Some folks think there is still reason for hope. Their cup runneth over anyone who rains on that parade.


Yeah, I get that, but the topic has seriously drifted to personal opinions with little, if any, relationship to the subject matter. Trust me, others share my assessment that the thread has become a defacto debate outside the scope of the topic.

The “Get a room” comment seems appropriate, IMO.

RS


I lack any further commitment to derailing this thread. Do your best not to preserve the derail with admonitory comments. Let it move on to a collective weeping into handkerchiefs over the hotly anticipated imminent demise of Roe v. Wade.

I've done my time on the front lines and stood toe to toe with anti-abortion protesters outside a women's clinic somewhere in the Pacific Northwest. Excuse me if I've become a bit bored with extended lamentations in internet chat rooms.
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Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Anthony Kennedy: US supreme court justice to retire

#53  Postby aban57 » Jun 28, 2018 5:13 pm

theropod wrote:So the proceeding two pages are about the thread subject in what way? This old geezer can’t see the connection?

RS

No, it's just about a guy who can't stop misrepresenting people's comments because he can't admit he was wrong. Classic Cito.
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Re: Anthony Kennedy: US supreme court justice to retire

#54  Postby Cito di Pense » Jun 28, 2018 5:15 pm

aban57 wrote:
theropod wrote:So the proceeding two pages are about the thread subject in what way? This old geezer can’t see the connection?

RS

No, it's just about a guy who can't stop misrepresenting people's comments because he can't admit he was wrong. Classic Cito.


Hey, if it means that much to ya: I was wrong. I don't know about what, yet, but seems you can't drop it. If it was something somebody could clearly be wrong about, I'd have figured that out by now. You have your wrongs to right. You go, girl.
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Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Anthony Kennedy: US supreme court justice to retire

#55  Postby Fallible » Jun 28, 2018 6:24 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
theropod wrote:So the proceeding two pages are about the thread subject in what way? This old geezer can’t see the connection?


It's a panic about the conservative tendencies being realized in the US. Some folks think there is still reason for hope. Their cup runneth over anyone who rains on that parade.


Oh, is it? I thought it was you taking inane pot shots at people for expressing their opinions and then doing nothing but yourself. You didn't rain on anyone's parade, as usual you decided to give it the old mountains-out-of-molehills treatment. Of course our opinions here are pointless. What do you think people here are expecting to happen when they voice them? At least you made me chuckle with making your point about how pointless it is to rant in an obscure corner of the internet by ranting in an obscure corner of the internet.
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Re: Anthony Kennedy: US supreme court justice to retire

#56  Postby Fallible » Jun 28, 2018 6:28 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
aban57 wrote:
theropod wrote:So the proceeding two pages are about the thread subject in what way? This old geezer can’t see the connection?

RS

No, it's just about a guy who can't stop misrepresenting people's comments because he can't admit he was wrong. Classic Cito.


Hey, if it means that much to ya: I was wrong. I don't know about what, yet, but seems you can't drop it. If it was something somebody could clearly be wrong about, I'd have figured that out by now. You have your wrongs to right. You go, girl.


Aban can't drop it? I've worked a full day, come home and what do I find? You still here, flapping your gums about how pointless it all is and characterising yourself as the maverick.
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Re: Anthony Kennedy: US supreme court justice to retire

#57  Postby Cito di Pense » Jun 28, 2018 8:00 pm

Fallible wrote:What do you think people here are expecting to happen when they voice them?


I guess they expect to become part of the usual chorus.

I'd think you'd get down to business already on the Anthony Kennedy thing, but some other stuff is just too juicy for ya. I can always hope.
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Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Anthony Kennedy: US supreme court justice to retire

#58  Postby willhud9 » Jun 28, 2018 8:09 pm

This whole "talking" of Roe v Wade and other cases being overturned in a quick time ignores the decades of court precedent.
The current justices, especially the conservative ones, but most especially Chief Justice Roberts, are not keen on changing previous verdicts by the Supreme Court and only do so when left with no other choice.

Even the most recent case Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission did not deal with the general issue of discrimination laws but was a very narrow ruling pertaining to the CCRC's handling of the original trial.

The Supreme Court is not in anyway out to change the law of the land.

Furthermore, Roe v Wade has gone through several courts dominated by conservative justices and none have stripped it of its legal status. Even if Roe v Wade were overturned there is still the matter of Planned Parenthood v Casey which affirms that woman have the right to seek an abortion without undue burdens prior to viability.

Planned Parenthood v Casey is more pertainent to abortion rights and activism than Roe v Wade, but the latter has a more familiar name.

Regardless, the following criteria would have to come forth in order for the SCOTUS to overturn Roe v Wade:

a) a Constitutional challenge from the lower courts detailing the state restricting or punishing a woman for seeking an abortion.
b) Conflict between a lower and higher court verdicts which creates confusion either for the plaintiff or state. Successful appeals to each court leads to:
c) The Supreme Court agrees to hear the case. They are highly selective which ones they choose. If they do not choose to hear a particular case they allow the highest court standing to rule. They do this quite often and only do so when they believe there is no clear court precedent.

Take the recent immigration law.

It was not the original version of Trump's Muslim ban that got brought to court. Nor the second one. It was a third rendition of the executive order. The court ruled that as many edits that have gone into the immigration ban (which falls under clear Presidential authority), the claim that it is specifically targetting religious groups due to speech made on the campaign trail is a tenuous connection.

The reinforced the constitution with the notion that trump had changed the executive order several times to bring about their conclusion. Am I satisified with it? No. But it is how the court opperates. They do not bring about sweeps into Constitutional law or policy lightly, and only do so if they believe with certainty that a previous court's ruling was mistaken.

That sort of verdict change does not come quickly.
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Re: Anthony Kennedy: US supreme court justice to retire

#59  Postby Fallible » Jun 28, 2018 8:38 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
Fallible wrote:What do you think people here are expecting to happen when they voice them?


I guess they expect to become part of the usual chorus.

I'd think you'd get down to business already on the Anthony Kennedy thing, but some other stuff is just too juicy for ya. I can always hope.


Oh look, you used the word 'hope' in your reply, because that's the feeling you decided to lambast cyghost for possessing. You used italics to draw attention to it. That's clever! Here's another question for you to ignore. Why is it OK for you to find something that's not the topic under discussion 'too juicy for ya', and why does this only become a problem when others do it? This whole diversion was started by you and your urge to school people on how insignificant sharing their hopes is. All day. One could say it was an all-day bitchfast, or something equally toe-curlingly contrived, if one were a loudmouth frog from deepest Anusshire.
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She never listened to no hater, liar,
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Re: Anthony Kennedy: US supreme court justice to retire

#60  Postby Cito di Pense » Jun 28, 2018 9:25 pm

Fallible wrote:This whole diversion was started by you and your urge to school people on how insignificant sharing their hopes is.


Well, there's the empirical for you, again: Sharing their hopes seems to have scant appeal in comparison to the attraction of whatever it is you're up to at this point. Maybe you could help me out, here, and give it a name. I'd suggest one for you, but I'm sure you'd much rather lead your own parade.
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Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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