The big complaint about this march appears to be that objectors seem to think it was designed to "antagonize" Muslims.

Well, the reason it would antagonize them is if they were opposed to homosexuality or homosexual rights.

Don't the Sweden Democrats and/or gay rights advocates have the right to publicly protest? Don't they have the right to do it in "Muslim neighborhoods?"

Sure, they have that right. But other groups also have the right to advert to the organizers actual motives and to counter-protest, don't they?

Gay pride parades are organized by groups from the gay community and not people that are actually opposed to gay rights as in this case. The gay community and their allies have all the right and in fact the obligation to make sure everyone knows this event does not represent them.

Oh, of course, and what the "Left" leaning groups are doing is advocating that the march be banned or prevented/stopped, and its organizers arrested. We can also comment on THEIR viewpoints on this matter, which are abhorrent.

The Sweden Democrats Party is not opposed to gay rights.

It's funny that the Left is suggesting that it is hate speech to have a gay pride march in a so-called "Muslim neighborhood." To march in a place where people are opposed to your message is the best place to march.

Forty Two wrote:Oh, of course, and what the "Left" leaning groups are doing is advocating that the march be banned or prevented/stopped, and its organizers arrested. We can also comment on THEIR viewpoints on this matter, which are abhorrent.

Citation required.

Forty Two wrote:
The Sweden Democrats Party is not opposed to gay rights.

it is.

The Sweden Democrats consider children raised in a traditional nuclear family as the preferred option. Those not raised by their biological parents should have the right to associate or at least find out about who they were. Government sanctioned adoption and insemination to single people, same-sex couples and polyamorous relationships should be avoided unless the adopting party are close relatives or already have a close relationship with the child.[91] They also state that children who live with a same-sex couple should be adopted to a same-sex couple if they become orphans and there is no pre-determined legal guardian.

Although SD strongly criticizes what it calls a Homosex Lobby, the party claims that it is not hostile to homosexuals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden_Democrats#Family

Forty Two wrote:It's funny that the Left is suggesting that it is hate speech to have a gay pride march in a so-called "Muslim neighborhood." To march in a place where people are opposed to your message is the best place to march.

It is for the gay community to decide what is the best place for them to march, isn't it? Hint: We prefer city centres.

NineBerry wrote:

Forty Two wrote:Oh, of course, and what the "Left" leaning groups are doing is advocating that the march be banned or prevented/stopped, and its organizers arrested. We can also comment on THEIR viewpoints on this matter, which are abhorrent.

Citation required.

http://instinctmagazine.com/post/swedis ... ghborhoods

NineBerry wrote:

Forty Two wrote:It's funny that the Left is suggesting that it is hate speech to have a gay pride march in a so-called "Muslim neighborhood." To march in a place where people are opposed to your message is the best place to march.

It is for the gay community to decide what is the best place for them to march, isn't it? Hint: We prefer city centres.

No, they do not own the public square, or the right to protest. It's for individuals to decide the best place to march. If some of the gay community want to march in Muslim neighborhoods along with Sweden Democrats, or at their behest, then that's their decision. Heck, if a bunch of straight homophobes want to hold a gay pride march in Muslim neighborhoods or Christian neighborhoods, that's their right too. It's not "hate speech."

Forty Two wrote:

NineBerry wrote:

Forty Two wrote:Oh, of course, and what the "Left" leaning groups are doing is advocating that the march be banned or prevented/stopped, and its organizers arrested. We can also comment on THEIR viewpoints on this matter, which are abhorrent.

Citation required.

http://instinctmagazine.com/post/swedis ... ghborhoods

So, sorry, where is the part where he writes that "the march be banned or prevented/stopped, and its organizers arrested"? All that article does is link to another post that says that "leftists" are doing this, which in support of that claim only links to another post that says "leftists" are doing this. So far, no link to any "leftists" actually doing this.

Grania Springles, writing on the "Why Evolution is True" blog, has what seems to me to be a quite reasonable position on this issue (Bascially, "A pox on both your houses"):

https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.co ... -olympics/

Shrunk wrote:

Forty Two wrote:

NineBerry wrote:

Forty Two wrote:Oh, of course, and what the "Left" leaning groups are doing is advocating that the march be banned or prevented/stopped, and its organizers arrested. We can also comment on THEIR viewpoints on this matter, which are abhorrent.

Citation required.

http://instinctmagazine.com/post/swedis ... ghborhoods

So, sorry, where is the part where he writes that "the march be banned or prevented/stopped, and its organizers arrested"? All that article does is link to another post that says that "leftists" are doing this, which in support of that claim only links to another post that says "leftists" are doing this. So far, no link to any "leftists" actually doing this.

Quoted in the article --

Many leftists are also calling for the parade to be legally banned, and for the people who organized it to be arrested for “hate speech” against Muslims

http://www.blazingcatfur.ca/2015/07/21/ ... as-racist/

It's the Left-leaning folks that are saying the march is racist and hate speech. Who else is doing it? The right wingers organizing the March?

Forty Two wrote:

Shrunk wrote:

Forty Two wrote:

NineBerry wrote:

Citation required.

http://instinctmagazine.com/post/swedis ... ghborhoods

So, sorry, where is the part where he writes that "the march be banned or prevented/stopped, and its organizers arrested"? All that article does is link to another post that says that "leftists" are doing this, which in support of that claim only links to another post that says "leftists" are doing this. So far, no link to any "leftists" actually doing this.

Quoted in the article --

Many leftists are also calling for the parade to be legally banned, and for the people who organized it to be arrested for “hate speech” against Muslims

http://www.blazingcatfur.ca/2015/07/21/ ... as-racist/

It's the Left-leaning folks that are saying the march is racist and hate speech. Who else is doing it? The right wingers organizing the March?

Read my post again.....

Shrunk wrote:Grania Springles, writing on the "Why Evolution is True" blog, has what seems to me to be a quite reasonable position on this issue (Bascially, "A pox on both your houses"):

https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.co ... -olympics/

What about this bit? "Personally I think that deciding to put a Pride march through such an area is deeply misconceived, it’s entirely possible that it will end in violence which is—and always will be—a bad end to seek." Why in the world would it end in violence? Are Muslims prone to be violent in the face of gay pride parades? Why would that be? She ultimately makes the argument against the march being misconceived, because she points out that there is no reason to think that the Muslims are violent homophobes.

To say that it is "misconceived" to march through a Muslim area over an issue that Muslims may be perceived to be against is like saying it is "misconceived" to march against the Confederate Flag in Columbia, South Carolina.

Here she is reasonable: "On the other hand, I think a Pride parade going through areas that were predominantly, for example, Southern Baptist would be praised by the media instead of denounced. None of us need try very hard to imagine the scorn and outrage if a Pride Parade was told that it could not march through through a neighborhood because the marchers had to be “culturally sensitive” to the religion of the ultra-conservative Christian inhabitants." Exactly. And, anyone saying a gay pride parade in a heavily evangelical Christian town is "misconceived" because they need to be sensitive to the culture in that town would be, rightly, laughed out of town.

Shrunk wrote:

Forty Two wrote:

Shrunk wrote:

Forty Two wrote:

http://instinctmagazine.com/post/swedis ... ghborhoods

So, sorry, where is the part where he writes that "the march be banned or prevented/stopped, and its organizers arrested"? All that article does is link to another post that says that "leftists" are doing this, which in support of that claim only links to another post that says "leftists" are doing this. So far, no link to any "leftists" actually doing this.

Quoted in the article --

Many leftists are also calling for the parade to be legally banned, and for the people who organized it to be arrested for “hate speech” against Muslims

http://www.blazingcatfur.ca/2015/07/21/ ... as-racist/

It's the Left-leaning folks that are saying the march is racist and hate speech. Who else is doing it? The right wingers organizing the March?

Read my post again.....

There are people named and quoted in the articles I've posted.

Forty Two wrote:There are people named and quoted in the articles I've posted.

Those two links are the only articles you've posted, and no one is named and quoted in either, as far as I can see. Please correct me if I've overlooked something.

Forty Two wrote:
The big complaint about this march appears to be that objectors seem to think it was designed to "antagonize" Muslims.

Unless antagonizing them constitutes advocating something perfectly acceptable and legal in that society, then I can't see how it's designed specifically to antagonize, or how it could antagonize.

Whether they're Muslim neighborhoods or not, they're still under Swedish law.

Forty Two wrote:Well, the reason it would antagonize them is if they were opposed to homosexuality or homosexual rights.

It's possible that some are, but that doesn't mean they have any right to be protected from the advocacy of something perfectly acceptable and legal in that society

Forty Two wrote:Don't the Sweden Democrats and/or gay rights advocates have the right to publicly protest?

They surely do.

Forty Two wrote:Don't they have the right to do it in "Muslim neighborhoods?"

'Muslim neighborhood' is an entirely irrelevant category with respect to what can or cannot be advocated under Swedish law.


However, having listened to the link above, and having run off to google to look around for some sources of the Swedish left wing being in a state of confusion.... I can't seem to find a single source expressing this. Just a few iterations of the article cited in the video saying that they are. All I can really see here is essentially 'bloke down pub says it', which to me doesn't make it true.

Forty Two wrote:What about this bit? "Personally I think that deciding to put a Pride march through such an area is deeply misconceived, it’s entirely possible that it will end in violence which is—and always will be—a bad end to seek." Why in the world would it end in violence? Are Muslims prone to be violent in the face of gay pride parades?

I don't know. What does that have to do with this particular issue? The relevant question here is whether they are prone to be violent in the face of provocations from racist xenophobes.

Shrunk wrote:

Forty Two wrote:

NineBerry wrote:

Forty Two wrote:Oh, of course, and what the "Left" leaning groups are doing is advocating that the march be banned or prevented/stopped, and its organizers arrested. We can also comment on THEIR viewpoints on this matter, which are abhorrent.

Citation required.

http://instinctmagazine.com/post/swedis ... ghborhoods

So, sorry, where is the part where he writes that "the march be banned or prevented/stopped, and its organizers arrested"? All that article does is link to another post that says that "leftists" are doing this, which in support of that claim only links to another post that says "leftists" are doing this. So far, no link to any "leftists" actually doing this.

Ah I see you spotted this too. 42 does like these nebulous claims made by 'many' people, yet seem thin on the evidence aside from anecdotal assurances.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/07 ... -outraged/

Canadian blog Blazingcatfur writes:

Gay pride parades in Europe generally don’t go anywhere near Muslim areas, for obvious reasons. In Nørrebro, Copenhagen (where only 30% of the population are Muslim, as opposed to the more than 75% in the Swedish areas), gay pride parades learned the hard way not to tread within Islamic strongholds. Formerly, there was a large gay pride parade that went through Nørrebrogade (the main high street of the area). Gays would take stones to the head every year from Muslims, so they re-routed.

http://copenhagenpride.dk/en/content/ro ... -and-place

Pride Parade August 15th, 2015 13:00 / 1pm

True to tradition the Parade takes place on the last day of Pride Week and thus marks "the beginning of the end" prior to the show on the Copenhagen City Hall Square.
The parade route

The route from previous years is repeated once again this year: From Frederiksberg Town Hall via Vesterbrogade to Copenhagen City Hall Square. Departure from Frederiksberg at 13:00 / 1pm

....


The old, traditional route via Nørrebrogade and Dronnings Louises Bro has been out of the question for several years due to extensive road works and construction work relating to the new Metro extension. The permits necessary for that route are simply not given.

It is not Inconceivable that the Parade might return to Nørrebro, but if so it will only be when we can guarantee that route for years to come. We would rather not have confusion as to which route we pick from one year to the next.

Spearthrower wrote:http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/07/23/nationalists-plan-gay-pride-march-through-muslim-area-left-outraged/

Canadian blog Blazingcatfur writes:

Gay pride parades in Europe generally don’t go anywhere near Muslim areas, for obvious reasons. In Nørrebro, Copenhagen (where only 30% of the population are Muslim, as opposed to the more than 75% in the Swedish areas), gay pride parades learned the hard way not to tread within Islamic strongholds. Formerly, there was a large gay pride parade that went through Nørrebrogade (the main high street of the area). Gays would take stones to the head every year from Muslims, so they re-routed.

That, of course, would be all the more reason to protest and march in that neighborhood. If there are people who would take violent action to stop a peaceful march, then those people need to be dealt with.

Spearthrower wrote:

Shrunk wrote:

Forty Two wrote:

NineBerry wrote:

Citation required.

http://instinctmagazine.com/post/swedis ... ghborhoods

So, sorry, where is the part where he writes that "the march be banned or prevented/stopped, and its organizers arrested"? All that article does is link to another post that says that "leftists" are doing this, which in support of that claim only links to another post that says "leftists" are doing this. So far, no link to any "leftists" actually doing this.

Ah I see you spotted this too. 42 does like these nebulous claims made by 'many' people, yet seem thin on the evidence aside from anecdotal assurances.

The articles I've posted quote people and name them. The people protesting the proposed march are Leftists. Those are the people that think it's hate speech. The articles I've linked provide the evidence. Nothing is nebulous here. You obviously didn't bother to read the articles. It's not MY claim.

Forty Two wrote:

Spearthrower wrote:http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/07/23/nationalists-plan-gay-pride-march-through-muslim-area-left-outraged/

Canadian blog Blazingcatfur writes:

Gay pride parades in Europe generally don’t go anywhere near Muslim areas, for obvious reasons. In Nørrebro, Copenhagen (where only 30% of the population are Muslim, as opposed to the more than 75% in the Swedish areas), gay pride parades learned the hard way not to tread within Islamic strongholds. Formerly, there was a large gay pride parade that went through Nørrebrogade (the main high street of the area). Gays would take stones to the head every year from Muslims, so they re-routed.

That, of course, would be all the more reason to protest and march in that neighborhood. If there are people who would take violent action to stop a peaceful march, then those people need to be dealt with.

Did you ignore the less than confirmatory piece beneath it?

Forty Two wrote: The articles I've posted quote people and name them.

So you say. But I see no such quotes, and you've been unable or unwilling to cite them. What should I conclude from that?