"Sweden does not have a broader definition of rape"

Hugin · #1 by **Hugin** » Dec 07, 2010 6:05 pm

I came across this from a blog:

I’ve been following some threads on internationel websites concering the rape charges of WiliLeak’s Julian Assange the last month. I have some problems regardring the content of the threads.

In almost all of them I’ve found people claiming that the definition of rape in Sweden is broader than that of the US. This is falsehood. I’m writing this post in english to explain the differences between Sweden and the states of the US. I’ve been comparing the state laws found on the website of the US government with the laws of Sweden and I can find no difference in definitions at all.

CONTINUES

I'm not really read up on the Assange rape affair, but I do find this an interesting point.

I have no real idea if Sweden has broader rape laws than the USA or other Western countries. I've seen the notion advanced both in cases like this, but also in cases to defend Sweden when it comes to high rape statistics. I really don't know.

Aca · #2 by **Aca** » Dec 07, 2010 9:30 pm

This is what i read

http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2 ... ainst.html

And Assange's current London attorney - Mark Stephens - told AOL news that he doesn't even know what the charges against Assange are, but that they are not rape:

Stephens, told AOL News today that Swedish prosecutors told him that Assange is wanted not for allegations of rape, as previously reported, but for something called "sex by surprise," which he said involves a fine of 5,000 kronor or about $715.

***

"We don't even know what 'sex by surprise' even means, and they haven't told us," Stephens said, just hours after Sweden's Supreme Court rejected Assange's bid to prevent an arrest order from being issued against him on allegations of sex crimes.

"Whatever 'sex by surprise' is, it's only a offense in Sweden -- not in the U.K. or the U.S. or even Ibiza," Stephens said. "I feel as if I'm in a surreal Swedish movie being threatened by bizarre trolls. The prosecutor has not asked to see Julian, never asked to interview him, and he hasn't been charged with anything. He's been told he's wanted for questioning, but he doesn't know the nature of the allegations against him."

and i would really like to know more.

Is "sex by surprise" really an item in Swedish criminal code? if yes, what do they mean by it (as defined in Swedish law)?

trubble76 · #3 by **trubble76** » Dec 07, 2010 9:33 pm

Most of the sex I get these days is a surprise to me.

Wiðercora · #4 by **Wiðercora** » Dec 07, 2010 9:35 pm

"sex by surprise"

WTF?

Aca · #5 by **Aca** » Dec 07, 2010 9:41 pm

Wiðercora wrote:"sex by surprise"

WTF?

thats what i thought

but, if what was said by his lawyer in that article true, my next question is if $ 715 is worth putting someone on Interpol red notice list?

all this for $ 715?

really?

King Hazza · #6 by **King Hazza** » Dec 07, 2010 10:40 pm

Well it would have to be a broad definition of rape indeed if the charge KEEPS CHANGING and is undefinable.

Thommo · #7 by **Thommo** » Dec 07, 2010 10:51 pm

I think it's hard to shrug off for Sweden that either (a) they have a ludicrously broad definition of rape or (b) this is a trumped up charge, given that it seems both women consented to sex with Julian Assange and at least one of them somehow didn't realise they'd been raped for days afterwards.

I'm leaning towards (b) personally.

PS: If I'm wrong and he actually committed those crimes then I'll eat my words, rape is a hideous crime, but I have never in my life seen something that screams "fit up" at me like this does.

virphen · #8 by **virphen** » Dec 07, 2010 11:00 pm

It's hard to resist jumping to conclusions, because the way this whole thing has been conducted seems totally ridiculous - if you believe the statements made by Assange's lawyers. Which are of course biased. I am very interested to see exactly what the charges are - is there a point where they need to be made public?

Rohm · #9 by **Rohm** » Dec 10, 2010 5:28 am

In Sweden, sex assault gets little tolerance:

"Sometimes we lawyers joke that soon you have to have a written permission before you can have sex..."

http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/in-sw ... -+World%29

=============

Sweden prides itself on gender equality and fairness, a tradition underpinning an interpretation of rape that often requires only a low level of coercion. A minor threat or force, such as pulling an arm, can be enough to result in charges. Sex with a person who is unconscious, drunk or asleep can be classed as rape.

http://www.mercurynews.com/california/c ... ck_check=1

NineOneFour · **#10** by **NineOneFour** » Dec 10, 2010 6:52 am

Anyone who got pissed at someone when a condom broke in the US would be shown the door out of a lawyer's office. The charges are nothing short of ludicrous.

NilsGLindgren · **#11** by **NilsGLindgren** » Dec 10, 2010 9:00 am

I don't know what "sex by surprise" is, and I am Swedish. Nothing I have seen in Swedish newspapers translates into "sex by surprise". Unfortunately, it is a widely spread misapprehension that Swedes speak English.

(Same goes for people in a few other countries I could name but will not :evilgrin:

)

Rohm · **#12** by **Rohm** » Dec 10, 2010 9:07 am

NilsGLindgren wrote:I don't know what "sex by surprise" is, and I am Swedish. Nothing I have seen in Swedish newspapers translates into "sex by surprise". Unfortunately, it is a widely spread misapprehension that Swedes speak English.

(Same goes for people in a few other countries I could name but will not )

...but it sounds like the sex was consensual on the condition that a condom was used. It also sounds like in one case, condom use was negotiated for and Assange agreed to wear a condom but didn’t, and the woman didn’t realize it until after they had sex; in the second case, it sounds like the condom broke and the woman told Assange to stop, which he did not.

http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2 ... -surprise/

Understand that in another sexual encounter with the 2nd woman, she was asleep and therefore could not provide consent.

mrjonno · **#13** by **mrjonno** » Dec 10, 2010 10:07 am

I found it quite interesting that some people on that blog think rapists only get 10 years in jail in Sweden which probably isnt that different in most countries. I actually think your average rape would carry a lower sentence in the uk probably half that

Remember murder in the UK carries a mandatory life sentence but the average time spent in jail is about 12 years (probation for life). If you narrow the penalty between rape and murder you arent going to get many rape survivors , why bother leaving a witness

Thommo · **#14** by **Thommo** » Dec 10, 2010 10:58 am

Rohm wrote:Understand that in another sexual encounter with the 2nd woman, she was asleep and therefore could not provide consent.

That's the accusation. It may not be what happened and I'd bet that version of events is contradicted by the defence's version.

Rohm · **#15** by **Rohm** » Dec 10, 2010 2:43 pm

Assange may have committed the third type of rape charge ("less severe rape'):

There is a category identified as "severe rape," which involves a high degree of violence and which carries a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison for the perpetrator; another known as "regular rape," which may involve some violence and calls for a maximum sentence of six years; and a third called "less severe rape," which may not involve violence but still includes the imposition of sexual intercourse on a person against her will.

The prosecutors seeking Mr. Assange's extradition suspect that he may have engaged in this last category, which is punishable by as much as four years in prison.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/in-sw ... -+World%29

purplerat · **#16** by **purplerat** » Dec 10, 2010 3:09 pm

Rohm wrote:Assange may have committed the third type of rape charge ("less severe rape'):

There is a category identified as "severe rape," which involves a high degree of violence and which carries a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison for the perpetrator; another known as "regular rape," which may involve some violence and calls for a maximum sentence of six years; and a third called "less severe rape," which may not involve violence but still includes the imposition of sexual intercourse on a person against her will.

The prosecutors seeking Mr. Assange's extradition suspect that he may have engaged in this last category, which is punishable by as much as four years in prison.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/in-sw ... -+World%29

Severe rape has a maximum sentence of 10 years?

zomgwtf · **#17** by **zomgwtf** » Dec 10, 2010 4:51 pm

This is from Swedens Penal Code:

A person who by violence or threat which involves, or appears to
the threatened person to involve an imminent danger, forces another
person to have sexual intercourse or to engage in a comparable
sexual act, that having regard to the nature of the violation and the
circumstances in general, is comparable to enforced sexual
intercourse, shall be sentenced for rape to imprisonment for at least
two and at most six years. Causing helplessness or a similar state of
incapacitation shall be regarded as equivalent to violence.
If having regard to the nature of the violence or the threat and
the circumstances in general, the crime is considered less serious, a
sentence to imprisonment for at most four years shall be imposed.
If the crime is gross, a sentence to imprisonment for at least four
and at most ten years shall be imposed for gross rape. In assessing
whether the crime is gross, special consideration shall be given to
whether the violence involved a danger to life or whether the
perpetrator caused serious injury or serious illness or, having regard
to the method used or the victim's youth or other circumstances,
exhibited particular ruthlessness or brutality. (Law 1998:393)
Section 2
A person who, under circumstances other than those defined in
Section 1, makes someone engage in a sexual act by unlawful
coercion shall be sentenced for sexual coercion to imprisonment for
at most two years.
If the person who committed the act exhibited particular
ruthlessness or if the crime is otherwise considered gross, a sentence
of at least six months and at most four years shall be imposed for
gross sexual coercion. (Law 1992:147)

http://wings.buffalo.edu/law/bclc/sweden.pdf (Just do a search for sexual crimes or just go to Chapter 6)

Now to search for cases which define each section. However, this seems to be in accordance with Rohm has quoted from ndtv.

Just to sum up for those that may not understand it seems there is: Regular rape, a lesser rape, and gross rape. There is also sexual coercion and gross sexual coercion. The charges would be: 2-6yrs, max 4yrs, 4-10yrs, max 2yrs and 6mths to 4yrs respectively.
I don't know about $715 fines for surprise sex I couldn't find that in here.

So since, to my knowledge, these rape allegations have not been defined as violent, I would say a lesser rape charge and perhaps gross coercion would apply. So that's max 4yrs and 6mths to 4yrs respectively.

NilsGLindgren · **#18** by **NilsGLindgren** » Dec 10, 2010 7:38 pm

Rohm wrote:...but it sounds like the sex was consensual on the condition that a condom was used

Now, that is a surprise! We can then proceed to charge the culprit, what?