mrjonno wrote:You seriously think anyone who votes UKIP cares about anything other than point 1?, you are confusing UKIP with being a genuine political party as opposed to just a hate group which Farage has made acceptable probably for the first time since Mosley in the 1920/30's

You think anyone ever voted for the BNP based on their health or income tax policies?

False equivalence. The BNP was formed out of the National Front. UKIP was formed as a euroskeptic party. It just happens to chime with a lot of racists.

DarthHelmet86 wrote:Of course she does, she knows people who vote for them for other reasons. Do try and pay attention when reality proves your assertions wrong. Again.

For example, my dad's an ex-serviceman who thinks we could do with bulking up our hardware, and both my parents hate wind farms and don't think the very poor should have to pay tax.

Cthulhu's Trilby wrote:...The BNP was formed out of the National Front. UKIP was formed as a euroskeptic party...

UKIP were formed from the hard-right of the Tory Party.

I bet 90% of the people who voted for the BNP, before they were outed all over the media as being racist, now vote UKIP. It's more the BNP vote than anything else IMO. The retard cunt vote. I'm glad most such folk can't be bothered to make it to the polling station.

mrjonno wrote:
The fact is there is no future in being 'working class', UKIP doesnt offer one it just pretends to by blaming foreigners for their problems. We simply got to the state where a high % of people are simply not needed. It's not a matter of education as all improving education will do is give you a better educated underclass.

+1

Peter Brown wrote:If UKIP is the answer to the Lefty-Conservative party, where is the alternative to the tory-Labour party?

The Green Party. 1 MP and a few MEPs. Quite the symmetry. Except that the Green Party actually has a coherent, positive and comprehensive list of policies.

http://policy.greenparty.org.uk/record-of-policy-statements.html

I'm With Stupid wrote: I don't think anyone is more anti-immigration or anti-EU than they ever were, there's just now a party for people who are, after years of the Tories and Labour largely agreeing on an open border, single market policy with the rest of the EU.

There's a lot more anti-polish sentiment I've noticed in recent years and there sure seems to be a lot more of them around (and a lot more of their lager!). When visiting Yorkshire recently we went to a pub and chatted with a local a bit. He even had a slang name for them - sausage rolls. He was surprised I hadn't heard it before, living down south (relatively speaking) - as if all southerners are privy to advances in cockney rhyming slang reckon he'll be voting UKIP....if he votes (unlikely IMO).

I think where there are lots of immigrants like in the South or big cities people tend to accept them and UKIP do very badly (immigrants do NOT get the vote for MP's)

Horwood Beer-Master wrote:

Cthulhu's Trilby wrote:...The BNP was formed out of the National Front. UKIP was formed as a euroskeptic party...

UKIP were formed from the hard-right of the Tory Party.

How are we defining 'hard-right' here?

How are we defining 'hard-right' here?

I would go for the racist working classes some of whom voted Labour, the Nazi's combined traditional 'left' and 'right' against a common enemy which is exactly UKIP are doing. They are far right ie unrestricted capitalism when it comes to economic policies but that isnt what is getting them votes (plenty of Tories can supply that) its about race and foreigners

Most of UKIP supporters are either ex BNP or people who wanted to but were too embarrassed to vote for such a party

mrjonno wrote:

How are we defining 'hard-right' here?

I would go for the racist working classes some of whom voted Labour, the Nazi's combined traditional 'left' and 'right' against a common enemy which is exactly UKIP are doing. They are far right ie unrestricted capitalism when it comes to economic policies but that isnt what is getting them votes (plenty of Tories can supply that) its about race and foreigners

Most of UKIP supporters are either ex BNP or people who wanted to but were too embarrassed to vote for such a party

That doesn't begin to answer my question. We're talking about the 'hard-right tories' who left the Conservative party to set up UKIP. Founder, Alan Sked, stood as a Liberal candidate (and, as noted previously, left the party fearing it had been infiltrated by the far right). The initial members were anti-Europe. Unsurprisingly most racists are also anti-Europe, so it's no surprise UKIP gathers them.

Incidentally your claim about UKIP supporters being ex-BNP or BNP-leaning is almost certainly wrong. The three main parties are pro-Europe (yes, even the Tories - hence the number of MPs defecting to UKIP), hence anyone who is anti-Europe for any reason might vote UKIP. Lots of people probably don't see voting UKIP as sleepwalking into fascist territory. It's a little too close to that territory for my liking and I'm broadly pro-Europe, so I wouldn't touch them, but I can see why "normal" voters might.

You are confusing UKIP politicians and their voters, who are a very different

The politicians are basically the illiberal, extreme nationalist/racist part of the Conservative party

Their electorate however are just the uneducated masses which have been fodder for all parties. I realise now that as a Labour supporter than the party of sun dried tomatoes Guardian readers is also includes parts of the racist underclass (well used to UKIP is getting rid of the for us but their votes need to be replaced)

mrjonno wrote:You are confusing UKIP politicians and their voters, who are a very different

Actually that's your confusion. I was talking about the politicians - specifically the ones who set up the party.

The politicians are basically the illiberal, extreme nationalist/racist part of the Conservative party

I certainly agree that the nationalist/racist part of the Conservative Party would be attracted the nearest thing to a mainstream anti-European party. Hence why the defectors go there. Hence also why UKPI's founder left the party.

Their electorate however are just the uneducated masses which have been fodder for all parties. I realise now that as a Labour supporter than the party of sun dried tomatoes Guardian readers is also includes parts of the racist underclass (well used to UKIP is getting rid of the for us but their votes need to be replaced)

Their electorate includes but is not limited to those people. The wider voting public really ought to wake up to this point sooner rather than later. They have voter bases in all social classes and that ought to worry us.

Are the middle classes really voting for UKIP in any great numbers?

UKIP voters are generally the unemployed or retired, I suppose you could consider the retired to be middle class but I tend to see middle class referring to occupation . UKIP are the party for chav's and the nearly deads

mrjonno wrote:Are the middle classes really voting for UKIP in any great numbers?

I don't think there are any reliable numbers on it. Anecdotally though I'm hearing more and more middle class people making those rumblings.

UKIP voters are generally the unemployed or retired, I suppose you could consider the retired to be middle class but I tend to see middle class referring to occupation . UKIP are the party for chav's and the nearly deads

UKIP voters tend to be older. Not sure about unemployed though. Most of them are former Tory supporters.

Cthulhu's Trilby wrote:

Horwood Beer-Master wrote:

Cthulhu's Trilby wrote:...The BNP was formed out of the National Front. UKIP was formed as a euroskeptic party...

UKIP were formed from the hard-right of the Tory Party.

How are we defining 'hard-right' here?

The kind of folks who felt that the only problem with Thatcher was that she was a bit of a wishy-washy compromiser (and of course, not a chap).

Had a run in with the Scottish Defence League outside my local Tescos at the weekend. They showed up with a poorly spelled sign referencing the Rotherham abuse scandal, which was somehow related to an attempted rape outside the local pub where the suspect was described as "Asian." There wasn't any reference to who they were on their banners and they claimed to be "concerned locals". The web link on their leaflet took me straight through to the SDL Twitter site.

Eventually after some "discussion" where I was accused of supporting rape because I didn't support the SDL using the incident to drum up support, and my girlfriend getting abuse, I phoned the cops. The fuzz informed me that they had travelled through from Glasgow and they had given one of them a caution.

All staunch supporters of the Union by the way.

Keep It Real wrote:

Peter Brown wrote:If UKIP is the answer to the Lefty-Conservative party, where is the alternative to the tory-Labour party?

The Green Party. 1 MP and a few MEPs. Quite the symmetry. Except that the Green Party actually has a coherent, positive and comprehensive list of policies.

http://policy.greenparty.org.uk/record-of-policy-statements.html

I notice you still haven't addressed their anti-nuke power stance.

Also just from skimming through that page here are a bunch of other really stupid policies that would discourage me from voting Green:

The Green Party is opposed to shooting and hunting and would bring an end to these 'sports'. Until this happens The Green Party are calling for magazines that promote the shooting and hunting of animals to have blank wrapping and be kept out of the reach of children.

Obsession with animal rights over human enjoyment (animals die much more horribly in the animal kingdom all the time, shooting them kills them downright humanely).

The Green Party is deeply concerned about sexual violence and all forms of violence perpetrated against civilians, particularly the high levels of violence against women and children, in situations of armed conflict.

Stupid feminist assumption that women always get the raw deal. Reminds me of that Hillary Clinton quote that women are the main victims of war because their husbands and sons die.

The Green Party reaffirms it's commitment to a liberal immigration policy. Everyone is equal no matter what the colour of their passport. The Coalition's policy of introducing an immigration cap restricts people's rights based purely on their nationality, harms the economy and is not conducive to a free and happy society.

BS pie-in-the-sky thinking that ignores the massive population density of England and the huge problem with integrating mass numbers of immigrants.

The law to follow Norway's in requiring that companies listed on the Stock Exchange have 40% of their board members being female within five years of the date of the passing of the legislation.

Idiotic feminist assumption that the whole reason fewer board members are women must be down to sexism, rather than women not working so hard / long hours. In practice, forcing a certain % of women is going to give some women unfair advantages by promoting them when a man would've done the job better. Theirs is actually a really sexist policy.

I do also agree with a bunch of their policies. The trouble is that there's too much total crap dogma that's built up within the Greens that isn't going to go away any time soon.

There is another dimension the media hasn't totally drenched us in yet. There are guys attacking Muslims because they are Muslims up and down the country, and there are guys attacking Jews up and down the country because they are Jews.

The media isn't profiling these attacking guys, which is unusual, very unusual. It make me wonder if it was the Muslims picking on the Jews because of Gaza and everyone else picking on the Muslims because of ISIL rapes etc

I figure in a bit more time next summer post Royal baby burp, it will explode in the media.

jez9999 wrote:
I notice you still haven't addressed their anti-nuke power stance. Also just from skimming through that page here are a bunch of other really stupid policies that would discourage me from voting Green:

I addressed your points with this post. Might I suggest that is the correct thread to post your concerns over Green Party policy.