Tory Party watch

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Re: Tory Party watch

#6221  Postby chairman bill » Aug 25, 2021 9:32 am

British workers are the worst idlers in the world and they need to get back into the office, says a politician from his beach towel whilst not even bothering to make one fucking phone call.
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6222  Postby ronmcd » Aug 26, 2021 10:58 am

chairman bill wrote:British workers are the worst idlers in the world and they need to get back into the office, says a politician from his beach towel whilst not even bothering to make one fucking phone call.

No, no, that's unfair. I saw him explain in an interview yesterday that the idea he was on the beach or playing table tennis or in the pool relaxing was nonsense. He was running the whole operation from his room, on the phone, taking charge, like a boss.

What sort of monster would think he was lying?
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6223  Postby Spearthrower » Oct 05, 2021 1:51 am

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-58796805

Home Secretary Priti Patel will announce new powers for courts to prevent people attending protests, in a speech to Conservative conference.

A Tory source said the measures would cover people with a "history of disruption", or where intelligence suggested they were might commit crime.


Might commit a crime now actually a crime sufficient to infringe on your liberties.

She's a budding fascist, ain't she?

So a protestor blocks a road, it's considered a crime, then that protestor is forbidden from further protesting. Only state-sanctioned forms of protest, please! Send letters to your MP that can be safely ignored and won't upset anyone - because that's how protesting works.
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6224  Postby Seabass » Oct 05, 2021 2:26 am

Spearthrower wrote:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-58796805

Home Secretary Priti Patel will announce new powers for courts to prevent people attending protests, in a speech to Conservative conference.

A Tory source said the measures would cover people with a "history of disruption", or where intelligence suggested they were might commit crime.


Might commit a crime now actually a crime sufficient to infringe on your liberties.

She's a budding fascist, ain't she?

So a protestor blocks a road, it's considered a crime, then that protestor is forbidden from further protesting. Only state-sanctioned forms of protest, please! Send letters to your MP that can be safely ignored and won't upset anyone - because that's how protesting works.

When she legalizes vehicular manslaughter against protestors, she can become an honorary Republican.
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6225  Postby Calilasseia » Oct 05, 2021 5:26 am

Seabass wrote:
Spearthrower wrote:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-58796805

Home Secretary Priti Patel will announce new powers for courts to prevent people attending protests, in a speech to Conservative conference.

A Tory source said the measures would cover people with a "history of disruption", or where intelligence suggested they were might commit crime.


Might commit a crime now actually a crime sufficient to infringe on your liberties.

She's a budding fascist, ain't she?

So a protestor blocks a road, it's considered a crime, then that protestor is forbidden from further protesting. Only state-sanctioned forms of protest, please! Send letters to your MP that can be safely ignored and won't upset anyone - because that's how protesting works.


When she legalizes vehicular manslaughter against protestors, she can become an honorary Republican.


She passed that point some time ago, with her half-baked effort to resurrect the Nazi "Madagascar Plan" to deal with "migrants" ... this individual is an Eichmann-level hardcore fascist.
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6226  Postby Tortured_Genius » Oct 06, 2021 1:09 pm

Is Boris even aware that the Tories have been power for the last 11 years?

I only ask because if they are now having to "Build Back Better" (the new party slogan) it implies that someone fucked up mightily over the last decade.
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6227  Postby Spearthrower » Oct 06, 2021 7:28 pm

Say it in 3, 2, 1... wrote:Corbyn!
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6228  Postby Agi Hammerthief » Oct 07, 2021 4:50 am

Tortured_Genius wrote:Is Boris even aware that the Tories have been power for the last 11 years?

I only ask because if they are now having to "Build Back Better" (the new party slogan) it implies that someone fucked up mightily over the last decade.

Learning from Kohl and Merkel is learning to be in power for 16 years.
* my (modified) emphasis ( or 'interpretation' )

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Re: Tory Party watch

#6229  Postby Tortured_Genius » Oct 12, 2021 5:51 pm

Hilarious.

Charity asks Tory MP who confuses two ethnic minority ministers to step back from role (BBC)

I'm a slightly brain-fried member of joe-public who is not a member of a political party, and I was still able to identify Zahawi from his picture in the article (without reading the caption). That apparently puts me up on a sitting Conservative MP who can't even identify members of his own government's cabinet. Although to be fair, the main pre-requisite for the job seems to be possession of the correct old school tie and the ability to bellow "Hear, Hear".
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6230  Postby Alan C » Oct 12, 2021 11:50 pm

Sorry, me trying again to get my head around British politics; what is it that keeps these Tories in power? It doesn't appear to be any actual competence other than any related skills for maintaining said death grip at any cost. I'm struggling to recall times when they weren't in charge.
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6231  Postby Hermit » Oct 13, 2021 4:43 am

Alan C wrote:Sorry, me trying again to get my head around British politics; what is it that keeps these Tories in power? It doesn't appear to be any actual competence other than any related skills for maintaining said death grip at any cost. I'm struggling to recall times when they weren't in charge.

In no particular order:
Xenophobia
Mainstream media
Labour Party
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6232  Postby Spearthrower » Oct 13, 2021 8:03 am

Alan C wrote:Sorry, me trying again to get my head around British politics; what is it that keeps these Tories in power?


Bizarre British conservatism wherein people routinely vote against their own self-interests for exceptionally poor reasons, plus an ineffectual and chaotically disorganized opposition.
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6233  Postby chairman bill » Oct 13, 2021 8:36 am

Let's not forget a compliant media. Their role in maintaining Tory dominance is considerable.
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6234  Postby Spearthrower » Oct 13, 2021 2:50 pm

chairman bill wrote:Let's not forget a compliant media. Their role in maintaining Tory dominance is considerable.


While true, people still do need to choose to consume such media.
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6235  Postby Tortured_Genius » Oct 13, 2021 3:19 pm

Hermit wrote:
Alan C wrote:Sorry, me trying again to get my head around British politics; what is it that keeps these Tories in power? It doesn't appear to be any actual competence other than any related skills for maintaining said death grip at any cost. I'm struggling to recall times when they weren't in charge.

In no particular order:
Xenophobia
Mainstream media
Labour Party


Add to that the Faustian pact Nick Clegg's Lib Dems entered into with the Tory's in 2010 which enabled Brexit and basically eliminated any sort of centrist party in UK politics. That had to go down as one of the worst betrayals in UK political history.

I just realised I can't for the life of me remember the name of the current Lib Dem leader, they are now that irrelevant. In contrast I correctly remembered that Caroline Lucas is the Green MP.

More than anything else it's the first past the post system keeping these twats in power.
None are so hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. - Goethe
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6236  Postby Alan C » Oct 13, 2021 9:57 pm

Hmm. Down here our Tories are very similar, they had a 9-year period of ru[i]ning the country, also helped by compliant sections of the media. The Horrid, sorry The Herald's political editors are all shades of right-wing, opinion[ated] editors frequently dispensing their rectally-sourced reckons and they are particularly egregious trying their venal best to undercut our covid response.
However, thankfully we're on our second term with the Tories not in charge. They got edged out by a coalition the first time around and got handily thumped the second time around [on the back of a well-received government covid response]. They used to poll mid-40s in support, now they are generally mid-20s as they steadily disappear up their own arseholes with their fourth leader since Key thankfully fucked off.
We've had MMP for a while, that might not have necessarily been the answer in the past but it certainly helped in our last two elections. I wonder what an MMP UK would look like?
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6237  Postby ronmcd » Oct 13, 2021 10:02 pm

Alan C wrote:Sorry, me trying again to get my head around British politics; what is it that keeps these Tories in power? It doesn't appear to be any actual competence other than any related skills for maintaining said death grip at any cost. I'm struggling to recall times when they weren't in charge.

This is an interesting question.

Frankly, it's incredibly difficult now for Labour to win IMO. The only Labour governments since 1979 were down to Tony Blair (Brown briefly became PM mid-term after Blair stood down but couldn't win an election). It's amazing to think about that, now in 2021. ONLY Blair has won for Labour.

Blair realised when taking control of the party in 1994 that Labour were not electable, and so changed them to "New Labour" to attract the centre. It was deliberate - winning was the goal, and changing into Tory-lite was the way. Tory voters could look at Blair and his policies and say, yes, okay.

All things being equal:

Can Labour win in a UK GE with actual socialist policies? No chance.
Can Labour win in a UK GE with social democratic policies? No.
Can Labour win in a UK GE with centrist policies aimed at the widest pool of voters? Probably not.

That's the problem. All things being equal, Labour won't win a UK GE now.

But ...

all things are not equal. The single factor that WOULD allow a Labour win would be the same factor that brought Blair to power, combined with targeting the centre ground as Blair did. And that factor was voters just being sick to the back teeth of the Tories. That simple. They were done, tired, incompetent, corrupt, and voters were just sick of them. Potentially a once in a generation occurrence.

Boris and his waste of space cabinet *should* be having the same sickening effect on voters, but sadly I don't think we're anywhere near that yet. Inexplicably people seem to like Boris. He can be more racist than a cancelled comedian, and *shrug*. He can lie, to Parliament, demonstrably, and *meh*. His ministers can be lying shits and it makes no difference.

But eventually a tipping point will be reached I think. Labour's current leadership hope their sub-Blair centrism will take advantage when the tide turns.





(I'm not convinced it will turn)
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6238  Postby Tortured_Genius » Oct 13, 2021 10:58 pm

Oh, and an absolute killer that I hadn't mentioned and that Ronmcd reminded me of indirectly - Labour used to control virtually every seat in Scotland which is now dominated by the SNP. Removing that Labour voting bloc was a major win for the Tories and on its own is enough to keep Labour out of power no matter what else the Cons do.

Alas, gone are the days when obvious sleazebags like Neil Hamilton would bring the likes of Martin Bell out to stand against them as happened in the 1997 election (happy days). "Cash for questions" looks like pretty small beer now compared to the looting of the public coffers by the PM and his chums.
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6239  Postby ronmcd » Oct 13, 2021 11:30 pm

Tortured_Genius wrote:Oh, and an absolute killer that I hadn't mentioned and that Ronmcd reminded me of indirectly - Labour used to control virtually every seat in Scotland which is now dominated by the SNP. Removing that Labour voting bloc was a major win for the Tories and on its own is enough to keep Labour out of power no matter what else the Cons do.



It *sounds* right, is received wisdom the right expression? I don't think it is though.

The only times Labour have won since 79 were Blair's 3 wins. And he did it by winning England. Those Scottish seats would have made no difference if they had all been SNP.

Labour like to say there's no path to power without Scottish seats, especially Scottish Labour lol. But it's not true, and it wasn't in any of Blair's 3 wins.

I remember reading an article with the numbers, can't find it, butt did find this which was part of a letter to the New Statesman mag during the Miliband Labour leadership:


But how true is this? Without Scotland, Labour would still have won in 1997 (with a majority of 139, down from 179), in 2001 (129, down from 167) and in 2005 (43, down from 66). What those who say that Labour cannot win without Scotland are really saying is that they do not believe Labour can ever win a sizeable majority again. This may or may not be true but it’s a different debate. History suggests that England and Wales alone are capable of electing a Labour government when the conditions are right.


2010 was different, Labour won most seats in Scotland - the last time they did - and without those seats there wouldn't have been any need for a coalition with the libdems, Cameron could have governed alone. Ironically in 2017 it was Tory Scottish MPs that ensured the Tories were in power, albeit as a minority. So obviously Scottish MPs can affect the final result, like any group of ~50 seats out of 650 can.

But do Labour NEED Scotland to win? No. If Labour are going to win, like 97 01 and 05, they need to do what the Tories did in 2019 and win England.
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6240  Postby Tortured_Genius » Oct 13, 2021 11:50 pm

Thanks for that ron - interesting to see the actual numbers. So much for perception!
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