Tory Party watch

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Re: Tory Party watch

#6241  Postby ronmcd » Oct 14, 2021 12:12 am

Tortured_Genius wrote:Thanks for that ron - interesting to see the actual numbers. So much for perception!

It makes perfect sense tbh, I thought the same but it came up during the 2014 referendum campaign, with some saying Labour couldn't afford to lose Scottish seats, and some on the pro-independence side pointed out Blair would still have won regardless.

Of course since then Scottish seats have made a difference, in 2010 and 2017, so ... it depends :smile:
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6242  Postby Alan C » Oct 14, 2021 10:02 pm

Jebus, that's rather depressing.
We had this little thing here called Dirty Politics whereby Dear Leader Shon Key was working behind the scenes with an absolute gobshite engineering 'hit' pieces and digging up dirt on his blog, interesting read by Nicky Hager if you can find it. Plenty of other scandals like a dodgy Saudi sheep deal, the fucker seemed to be untouchable. Before Mango Maniac or BoJo the clown came into my view I would have called him the most disingenuous politician around [backed up with a long list of his lies and broken promises] but just before the election that kicked his party out he quit being PM and handed it over to his bland deputy. I think this was around the time of the Panama Papers where he got a mention.

I'd love to be able translate how things changed here to UK but I'm not sure. As I said it was by virtue of a Labour/Greens/NZ First coalition [with NZ First being the kingmaker] that edged out the Tories. Nz First were annoyingly contrarian on a few matters so they burned on the last election, Labour/Greens therefore took control.

If it were possible, would there be a workable coalition in UK politics?
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6243  Postby chairman bill » Oct 15, 2021 1:12 pm

Alan C wrote:... If it were possible, would there be a workable coalition in UK politics?


I'd like to think so but we can't even manage a workable coalition in the main opposition party (Labour). The party's right-wing spent the last few years undermining the leadership, and now, having lied to get in charge of things, they're hell-bent on purging anything left of Genghis Khan. It feels like we're fucked for a generation.
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6244  Postby ronmcd » Oct 15, 2021 1:52 pm

Tory MP stabbed at a constituency meeting

Armed police officers on scene, following the stabbing of Conservative MP Sir David Amess in Leigh-on-Sea

A man has been arrested and police are not looking for anyone else in connection with the attack

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58929453

Sounds awfully like a terror attack, but who knows.
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6245  Postby The_Piper » Oct 15, 2021 4:45 pm

He died. Jesus Christ! :shock:
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6246  Postby chairman bill » Oct 15, 2021 8:11 pm

An attack on our democracy. Fuck whether you agreed with his politics (I didn't), we remove them via democracy, not violence.
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6247  Postby BlackBart » Oct 15, 2021 8:21 pm

:this:
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6248  Postby Tortured_Genius » Oct 16, 2021 12:42 am

Let's face it - killing anyone for what ever reason is appalling and horrible.

Latest is that the motive appears to be Islamic extremist terrorism, so it's not so likely he was killed for his politics beyond being an MP.
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6249  Postby chairman bill » Oct 17, 2021 6:52 pm

Fucking Tory journos ... Dan Hodges demanding that those on the left should not say nasty things about Tory MPs & picking specifically on Angela Rayner for rightfully calling Boris Johnson & his mates 'scum'. This is the same Dan Hodges who wrote an article, headlined, 'Kill vampire Jezza now.' Given the hate-filled rhetoric that spewed from the mouths of right-wing journalists & politicians, directed at Corbyn & Diane Abbott, they've got some fucking brass neck.
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6250  Postby Calilasseia » Oct 19, 2021 2:28 pm

Bear in mind that these are the same people who presided over fake "austerity" that killed 120,000 people, and who are presiding over the current Covid-19 policy, which has again lead to 120,000 or more preventable deaths.

Quite simply, we're dealing with architects of democide. They don't have any morals. They'll weaponise anything to fuel personal gain, and the extermination of those of us they regard as "surplus plebs".

They are scum. Vermin. A pestilence in need of eradicating.
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6251  Postby Sidewalk » Oct 21, 2021 11:06 pm

Calilasseia wrote:Bear in mind that these are the same people who presided over fake "austerity" that killed 120,000 people


Sorry to pick on you because I have seen this figure a number of times in a number of places but I never recall seeing any explanation of it, so I will ask you about it since you've just used it.

Lawd knows I want to believe it but I have the ONS figures for deaths here and I think I am correct in saying this figure of 120,000 (or is it 130,000? I've seen this figure too) is supposed to refer to the years between 2010 and 2015 when they were in cahoots with the Liberals.

Okay, here's the table and forgive me but I cannot see where the 120,000 deaths are

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transpar ... 1990to2020

I would bear in mind that these are only figures for England and Wales so it's only about 90% of the whole UK populace. However we could assume the trend is similar in Scotland and Norn Iron.

It looks like number of deaths increased a bit between 2010 and 2015 but you would expect this because there are more people. Albeit the death rate is a little bit higher too, but again you would expect this because the populace is older.

In fact the age-standardised mortality rate was lower in 2015 than 2010.

I trust you can see my confusion because while I can sincerely believe people died under the Tories and assistants, I cannot find the deaths in the figures.

Yours confuzzled.
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6252  Postby Matt_B » Oct 22, 2021 12:02 am

Here's a fact check on the 120,000 figure:

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck ... 000-people

The original study it's based upon is here:

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/7/11/e017722.full

There's also a more recent study that puts the number of excess deaths at around the 50,000 mark and takes into account a much longer period and many more factors.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... five-years

Original publication here:

https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... for_201314

TL;DR - We can only ever estimate the number of deaths that austerity caused but it's certainly not a small number and you're better off citing a more solid 50,000 than a wildly extrapolated 120,000.
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6253  Postby chairman bill » Oct 22, 2021 8:45 am

Cali's figure of 120,000+ does only apply to the government's response to Covid as leading to that number of avoidable deaths. I wonder whether the previous mention (attributed to austerity) was a typo.
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6254  Postby Matt_B » Oct 23, 2021 12:57 am

chairman bill wrote:Cali's figure of 120,000+ does only apply to the government's response to Covid as leading to that number of avoidable deaths. I wonder whether the previous mention (attributed to austerity) was a typo.


Possibly, although it's a specific number that's been spreading like wildfire ever since Ash Sarkar brought it up on Question Time. I won't fault her for that, as it's a format where nobody ever cites sources and others will quite often just pluck figures out of their backsides. However, it's a number that really needed context and, as evidenced by further studies, was subject to revision.

In contrast, the number of Covid deaths in the UK currently stands at 139,326 and that's indisputable right down to the last digit as the methodology behind it is very clear.

Either way, the word Conservative ought to be practically synonymous with murderer by now.
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6255  Postby Alan C » Oct 31, 2021 8:43 am

So I see part of the problem;

https://twitter.com/MJowen174/status/1454562086848172036

Screen Shot 2021-10-31 at 9.42.30 PM.png
Screen Shot 2021-10-31 at 9.42.30 PM.png (1.98 MiB) Viewed 348 times
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6256  Postby Calilasseia » Nov 03, 2021 2:10 am

chairman bill wrote:Cali's figure of 120,000+ does only apply to the government's response to Covid as leading to that number of avoidable deaths. I wonder whether the previous mention (attributed to austerity) was a typo.


Actually, that figure of 120,000 deaths arises from the British Medical Journal study that's already been linked to, and which the authors attributed to the ToryScum's fake "austerity". Which I downloaded as a PDF shortly after it was published in 2017. Indeed, I recall that one of the authors of that paper described ToryScum policy as "economic murder" in an interview with The Guardian.

Even if that figure has been subsequently revised to 50,000, this still leaves the ToryScum guilty of deliberate democide, even before we factor in their Covid-19 policy, which was described in a letter to The Lancet as "a dangerous and unethical experiment". Again, I have the PDF.

The last time a government weaponised legislation to kill a significant section of the population, its members were hanged. At Nuremberg in 1946.
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6257  Postby minininja » Nov 03, 2021 6:30 pm

Tory MP avoids suspension after Boris Johnson intervenes in sleaze row

Not only are this government openly corrupt but they are also happy to re-write the rules to avoid the consequences of being found to be corrupt.
[Disclaimer - if this is comes across like I think I know what I'm talking about, I want to make it clear that I don't. I'm just trying to get my thoughts down]
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6258  Postby Tortured_Genius » Nov 03, 2021 8:19 pm

"Treason doth never prosper" has always been the unofficial motto of the Conservative party.

Sir John Harington, Epigrams, Book iv, Epistle 5 wrote:Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason.
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6259  Postby zerne » Nov 04, 2021 12:46 pm

minininja wrote:Tory MP avoids suspension after Boris Johnson intervenes in sleaze row

Not only are this government openly corrupt but they are also happy to re-write the rules to avoid the consequences of being found to be corrupt.


Having read the headlines in the morning papers, and how bad it makes them look. It appears that the Tory's will be having a rerun of this on Monday.

Then presumably they will then hope we all suffer collective amnesia.

What's gross is that the consequences are so light. A rebuke of 30 days suspension. A minor inconvenience for the MP involved and a token punishment for a flagrant abuse of power. Yet the Tory administration were quite willing to completely abolish the structures that brought the MP to task.

Yikes.
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Re: Tory Party watch

#6260  Postby chairman bill » Nov 04, 2021 1:05 pm

zerne wrote:What's gross is that the consequences are so light. A rebuke of 30 days suspension. A minor inconvenience for the MP involved and a token punishment for a flagrant abuse of power. Yet the Tory administration were quite willing to completely abolish the structures that brought the MP to task.

Yikes.


A 30-day suspension opens up the opportunity for a constituency to hold a recall ballot. If you can get 10% of a constituency to sign a petition, it will trigger a by-election.
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