Brexit: Corbyn sees off grassroots remain demand amid conference chaos

minininja wrote:What am I missing here? Or is Peston genuinely trying to twist a false narrative out of thin air? I don't see how that can possibly be described as a stitch up. CLPs chose delegates to send to conference, and then the delegates in the conference hall voted on the policy. Surely that's the whole point of deciding these things democratically?

Laura Kuenssberg was claiming something equally bizarre yesterday, suggesting that because there was a deadline to get the policy drafted but that it would be considered agreed if a majority of people emailed to say they agreed with it, that that supposedly disadvantaged anyone who disagreed. Even though it would be a majority agreeing.

There seems to be genuine active attempts by people with high level positions in the media to manipulate the narrative, to attack anything that might undermine their own cosy stitch-ups with the establishment.

Just to explain in more detail the preceding points, a senior member of the shadow cabinet told me days ago that constituency Labour Party delegate selection had been organised to favour Corbyn loyalists.

About half those present were trade union delegates, who were thought to narrowly favour Corbyn’s Brexit ambivalence.

And immediately before the vote a delegate made a point of order from the platform alleging there were many in the conference room not entitled to vote - which was a suggestion she thought the vote was not being conducted in a robustly fair way.

Also there were lots of shouts at the end for a card vote, to verify the result via a formal counting process - which showed not everyone present thought the results accurately captured the view of Labour members.

All that said, Jeremy Corbyn won handsomely, which his allies told me he would over the preceding hours.

You can admire or criticise the professionalism of the operation to secure the win.

And of course I regret and apologise for my comparison with China which I thought was a joke but has caused unnecessary offence.

minininja wrote:So Peston tries to row back after being called out. But if as he says "Corbyn won handsomely" then the claims that there might have been people in the room voting that shouldn't have (not that there's any way you could ensure these theoretical people supported one position over another) or that it needed to go to a card vote, are rather weak, and certainly nothing to justify Peston's unchanged headline of a Corbyn stitch-up.

What do you think? Was it carried or lost?

This is not good. Not good at all. As a contact texts me: “This is a bullshit fix. Chair says it’s carried, general sec intervenes and she changes her mind. Disgrace. democracy in Labour only wins when Unite decide it does

Another Labour source: “Formby has fixed that for JC. She sounded panicked on the TV when she said no no it's lost! Card vote was fair option. V disappointing show whatever said you're on.”

Presumably the leadership were worried that given the card vote isn’t conducted in the room (and therefore without pressure of show of hands to support the leadership) they’d narrowly lose.

Another disgruntled Labour member tells me: “I’m still in shock over vote. I was sitting in balcony with eagle’s view. Thought was won. Party bosses may forget that the people hacked off are the main foot soldiers in any election. They are demotivated unnecessarily.”

But an alternative view from another member: “The vote was clearly lost and there was no need at all for a card vote. Any suggestion otherwise is clear politicking from those who want to undermine conference and the leadership because they didn't get their way. It stinks.”

This divergence of view might imply there was some merit in, well, verifying it somehow...

Things quickly turned nasty in the hall, as many of the grassroots members who were brandishing placards saying “Labour members say stop Brexit” began to suspect that the party hierarchy had packed the room with stooges. Old habits die hard. Never hold a vote unless you know the outcome in advance. Something David Cameron should have remembered three years earlier.

Speaker after speaker came to the podium to declare undying loyalty to Corbyn. Brexit had become a side issue, a neoliberal conspiracy to stop the country from talking about Corbyn’s anti-austerity policies. Remain and leave were just arbitrary constructs of false consciousness. Nothing was more important than maintaining belief in Jeremy. To have even a trace of doubt in Corbyn’s divinity was a complete betrayal. There could be no challenge or sign of original thought. Total belief was all that counted.

Come the votes, the NEC statement and composite 14 were passed overwhelmingly. Chants of ‘Oh Je-re-my Cor-byn’ broke out around the room. The good old days were back again. Composite 13 appeared to be too close to call. To everyone except Nichols, who was having her ear bent by Jennie Formby, general secretary of the Labour party, sat beside her on the stage.

“Um, I though the vote had gone one way,” Nichols said, “But Jennie’s just told me something else. So the vote is lost.” VAR had ruled. Cue uproar and demands for the vote to be rerun on a card count rather than a show of hands. That way there would be no room for error and no votes accidentally included from anyone ineligible. Heaven forbid.

Nichols hastily doubled down on her own fuck-ups. “The vote has been passed,” she said. Formby pulled out a gun and pointed it at her head. “I meant lost. Lost. Lost. LOST.” Jeremy had definitely won. He had at least 110% of the vote. It had been the most democratic vote in the history of all democratic votes. The confusion had been that all the remainers couldn’t see all the people who had voted for Jeremy who had been standing just outside the hall.

It had been a shambles. Labour had clutched defeat from the jaws of ambiguity. Just when the Tories were on their knees, Labour had proved itself unwilling to subject itself to scrutiny. The voice of the majority of its members ignored. Not even allowed a proper count. Party policy was now “make me something, but I’ve no idea what”.

The Saviour had been saved and the Labour elite might have won the battle. But it could have just lost the war.

It's a quite extraordinary state of affairs actually. The chair originally thought it was passed, then decided it wasn't. And now won't offer a card vote.

ronmcd wrote:Updated by Peston:
https://www.itv.com/news/2019-09-23/how ... rt-peston/

Just to explain in more detail the preceding points, a senior member of the shadow cabinet told me days ago that constituency Labour Party delegate selection had been organised to favour Corbyn loyalists.

Beatsong wrote:

Matt_B wrote:It's all a bit 4D chess to me. Let's face it, the vast majority of Labour's MPs, members and voters all support remaining in the EU when polled, but the party ends up with a policy that could take it back to the negotiating table if they end up in power. This is for the benefit of whom exactly?

Ah well, it's not like any of the other major parties are going to do what their supporters want either.

There's no contradiction there. It's perfectly possible to support Remain and simultaneously support the Labour Party's position of holding a second referendum and not immediately declaring a side. All you have to do is understand that both the party, and the democratic context in which it operates, is larger and more complex than yourself and includes a lot of people you disagree with.

“A new Scotland Act under a Labour government will also see employment law devolved to Edinburgh, he added.”

It was Labour that BLOCKED devolution of Employment Law during Smith Commission! #hypocrisy #FoolMeTwice

NEW: Leaflet doing the rounds at Labour conference calling for members to walk out of the ⁦@tom_watson⁩ speech today or to stand and chant “Oh Jeremy Corbyn” during it.

"The coming general election will be a once in a generation chance for real change." - @jeremycorbyn #Lab19

Churlish of Corbyn not to mention that Scotland already has free prescriptions but then...

Corbyn announcing Free Personal Care, free prescriptions, and no tuition fees. [basically advocating that England starts to look more like Scotland]

Corbyn's message to Scotland appears to be that he likes what @thesnp has delivered in Scotland on free personal care, free tuition and free prescriptions so he's going to do the same down south.

Labour Party risks bankruptcy over antisemitism investigation, executive members fear

Members of the National Executive Committee (NEC) have expressed concerns that a damning verdict from the equalities watchdog about Labour’s handling of antisemitic abuse could open the party up to a slew of lawsuits from Jewish members and former members, possibly resulting in hefty damages having to be paid.
It is understood that the issue was discussed at a recent NEC meeting, with members of the committee voicing major concerns about the fallout from the probe and who would be financially responsible.
Party bosses were asked what protections are in place for a scenario in which Labour has to cover the cost of multiple legal battles and potential payouts.
Two sources said the discussion was quickly “shut down” by party officials and allies of Jeremy Corbyn, and that the committee remains in the dark about the potential financial implications.
The fears are fuelled by the party’s worsening finances. Figures revealed this week showed that Labour made a loss of £655,000 last year, compared to a profit of £1.45m the year before, as a result of a fall in membership, rising staffing costs and losses incurred by last summer’s Labour Live event. The party's finances are likely to come under further strain if it has to fight a general election later this year.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/l ... spartanntp

Brexit news latest: Sadiq Khan tells Jeremy Corbyn 'be braver and tell Leave voters they are wrong'

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/b ... spartanntp

ronmcd wrote:See, this is a problem. "full-fibre". Boris incidentally was slated a couple of months ago for promising everyone would have full fibre.

Because of what full fibre actually is. I make my living on the internet, I don't have full fibre, it's not required and it's not cost effective. How do you replace the copper from the central cabinets with fibre to every single premises? Yikes. But that is apparently what Corbyn is promising, for free?

Only 8-10% of premises in the UK are connected to full-fibre broadband. It's 97% in Japan.

8 in 10 of us experienced internet problems in the last year.

So we'll make the very fastest full-fibre broadband free to everybody, in every home in our country.

That's real change.

https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status ... 3059582979

Nationalising water, energy and Royal Mail would pay for itself within seven years, research says

Professor Hall calculates that the average household would be £142 better off a year as a result of nationalising energy grids, and £113 better off if English water companies were publicly owned.
“Based on intensive empirical research, this paper shows that public ownership of utilities would result in annual savings of just under £8bn – so nationalisation would pay for itself in less than seven years,” said Prof Hall.
“Nationalisation would cost less than £50bn if shareholders are compensated for the amount they have actually invested, rather than costing the country nearly £200bn as claimed by the CBI last month.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/n ... spartanntp