UN Panel seem confused re idea of being a fugitive.

Think Assange claiming asylum is same as jail?

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UN Panel seem confused re idea of being a fugitive.

#1  Postby monkeyboy » Feb 05, 2016 10:57 am

Wikileaks founder Julian Assange should be allowed to walk free and be compensated for his "deprivation of liberty", a UN legal panel has found.
Mr Assange, 44, - who faces extradition to Sweden over a rape claim, which he denies - claimed asylum in London's Ecuadorean embassy in 2012.
He has been arbitrarily detained since his arrest in 2010, the panel said.

Story here

Allegedly, this panel is made up of legal experts. Now I'm no expert, let's have that out in the open, but is hiding the same as being locked up? As I understand things, an embassy is treated pretty much as a little chunk of another country's sovereign territory inside another country. So it's a bit like going abroad.
If I was on bail for any crime and skipped the country, could I whine to the UN after I got fed up of avoiding arrest and have them demand I get to walk freely back home and be compensated for my troubles?
Whether anyone thinks Assange is being neatly set up for an extradition to the USA in the long run is another discussion. How does avoiding arrest equate to being arbitrarily detained? He walked into the Ecuadorean embassy to avoid being arrested. He is staying there to avoid arrest. Nobody is detaining him there except himself.

Can anyone explain this?
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Re: UN Panel seem confused re idea of being a fugitive.

#2  Postby ED209 » Feb 05, 2016 12:27 pm

I don't see the reasoning either, but cannot get away from the fact that the charges are blatantly politically motivated and shame the swedish government.

Even so, assange has always offered to face them if he was given a guarantee that he would not be extradited to the US. A guarantee that was never given. Clearly the charges are pretense to extradite him to the US.

It's a shame that the US has no interest in bringing its 'collateral murderers' to justice and instead goes after the heroic whistleblowers who expose their misdeeds. And that europe leaves it to countries like ecuador and russia to shelter whistleblowers.
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Re: UN Panel seem confused re idea of being a fugitive.

#3  Postby Weaver » Feb 05, 2016 12:36 pm

ED209 wrote:I don't see the reasoning either, but cannot get away from the fact that the charges are blatantly politically motivated and shame the swedish government.

Even so, assange has always offered to face them if he was given a guarantee that he would not be extradited to the US. A guarantee that was never given. Clearly the charges are pretense to extradite him to the US.

It's a shame that the US has no interest in bringing its 'collateral murderers' to justice and instead goes after the heroic whistleblowers who expose their misdeeds. And that europe leaves it to countries like ecuador and russia to shelter whistleblowers.

Don't. Just don't. Don't give Assange any veneer of honesty and respectability for his utterly dishonest "collateral murder" video - massively edited to hide the truth and to blame people who were in fact lawfully engaged in combat operations, yet tarred as war criminals by an idiot with an agenda.
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Re: UN Panel seem confused re idea of being a fugitive.

#4  Postby ED209 » Feb 05, 2016 12:42 pm

That's just one example, and while I'm sure you could copy paste apologetics for all of the others it doesn't change the facts of the situation.
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Re: UN Panel seem confused re idea of being a fugitive.

#5  Postby Weaver » Feb 05, 2016 12:54 pm

There was only the one incident in the video titled "collateral murder". Your use of that bullshit title gives, as I said, respectability to the utterly fictional nonsense created by Assange in pursuit of his agenda, regardless of the actual truth of the matter.

If you want to give him credit for anything he actually truthfully and honestly did, you shouldn't point out his biggest lies.
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Re: UN Panel seem confused re idea of being a fugitive.

#6  Postby ED209 » Feb 05, 2016 1:00 pm

And I use it as an umbrella term to cover all the perpetrators of that and similar crimes exposed via wikileaks.

In a just world we'd see the extradition of US servicemen to stand trial at the hague, not assange and snowden etc to the US.
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Re: UN Panel seem confused re idea of being a fugitive.

#7  Postby mrjonno » Feb 05, 2016 1:04 pm

How the UN can say someone is illegally detained by the UK when he isn't detained is a bit beyond me.

If for some strange reason they want to say the arrest warrant is illegal under international law which I've can't remember the UN ever commenting on then go ahead, I've no problem with any organisation criticising the UK but they had better have some good evidence

As for Assange he should get 6 months for contempt of court then he can be deported to Sweden. Don't care why Sweden wants him, Sweden is a fellow EU country and the mere fact they want him should be enough. Then he is their problem. If his own country Australia doesn't like then they can talk to our embassy and try and block it (presumably they would want us to deport him to Australia which is also good).

So priorities for Assange are

1) jailing him followed by
2) deporting him preferably somewhere where there is no death penalty (or a legal guarantee that those deported won't be executed which is a deal we have with the US) as that can be a bit embarrassing
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Re: UN Panel seem confused re idea of being a fugitive.

#8  Postby GrahamH » Feb 05, 2016 1:27 pm

Assange’s lawyers had appealed to the UN panel claiming that his stay in the embassy was arbitrary because he had been unable to exercise his right to asylum, arguing: “The only way for Mr Assange to enjoy is right to asylum is to be in detention. This is not a legally acceptable choice.”

They also argued that UK law had changed since 2012, which meant that if arrested today he would no longer be liable to extradition under the European arrest warrant.
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/f ... estigation


Does Assange have a right to asylum? Can the Swedish warrant be shown to be an act of political persecution? Maybe statements today will make it clearer.
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Re: UN Panel seem confused re idea of being a fugitive.

#9  Postby monkeyboy » Feb 05, 2016 2:53 pm

GrahamH wrote:
Assange’s lawyers had appealed to the UN panel claiming that his stay in the embassy was arbitrary because he had been unable to exercise his right to asylum, arguing: “The only way for Mr Assange to enjoy is right to asylum is to be in detention. This is not a legally acceptable choice.”

They also argued that UK law had changed since 2012, which meant that if arrested today he would no longer be liable to extradition under the European arrest warrant.
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/f ... estigation


Does Assange have a right to asylum? Can the Swedish warrant be shown to be an act of political persecution? Maybe statements today will make it clearer.

The logic gets ever more baffling. He isn't in detention. He is hiding in a foreign embassy avoiding arrest. Had he managed to skip the country and get to Ecuador he would he enjoying more liberal asylum perhaps but he didn't manage to do that. He is still in breach of his bail conditions as set by UK law, not being detained by the UK. As for compensation for going into hiding and avoiding surrender to bail. Really? What in the blue blazes of fuck?
If this had been some challenge of the charges to European courts etc and this was their ruling? What sort of precedent does that set. Be arrested, jump bail, go hide out somewhere then bitching about being persecuted because you aren't wandering about freely and claim compensation for your own actions. It's mental.
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Re: UN Panel seem confused re idea of being a fugitive.

#10  Postby monkeyboy » Feb 05, 2016 2:56 pm

Please guys, can we try to stick to the issues in the Op where possible and not get into a full blown USA knocking/Assange deserves it all/Assange is a hero of virtue/Assange is a big fat fiber/whatever derail? Pretty please?
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Re: UN Panel seem confused re idea of being a fugitive.

#11  Postby ED209 » Feb 05, 2016 3:41 pm

You can't split assange from wikileaks, unless you believe that his treatment is not a direct result of his whistleblowing. The UN is needed to speak up for him because he faces rendition to the US, not the politically motivated swedish charges and you cannot seriously believe that if he were to set foot outside the embassy he would ever see a fair trial in a swedish court anyway.
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Re: UN Panel seem confused re idea of being a fugitive.

#12  Postby monkeyboy » Feb 05, 2016 3:48 pm

And if it turns out his treatment is a result of him sticking his cock into someone without their consent? There is someone who is being totally ignored in all this, whilst he whines he's being mistreated.
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Re: UN Panel seem confused re idea of being a fugitive.

#13  Postby ED209 » Feb 05, 2016 3:59 pm

He has always been ready to go to Sweden to face trial on the sole condition that Sweden guarantees that he would not be extradited to the US. Sweden has always refused, because that is exactly why the charges were brought in the first place. This should should tell you how much concern Sweden the US and uk have for his alleged victims.

He might well have cleared his name by now if he wouldn't end up on an aircraft carrier with a bag on his head the moment he sets foot in a country happy to act like a puppet regime.
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Re: UN Panel seem confused re idea of being a fugitive.

#14  Postby GrahamH » Feb 05, 2016 4:31 pm

monkeyboy wrote:And if it turns out his treatment is a result of him sticking his cock into someone without their consent? There is someone who is being totally ignored in all this, whilst he whines he's being mistreated.


That is a possibility, although it is also possible that false allegation have been brought for political ends.

ON the face of it an assurance the Sweden would pursue the Swedish charges and not extradite him elsewhere would seem a reasonable way to resolve that issue.
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Re: UN Panel seem confused re idea of being a fugitive.

#15  Postby Rachel Bronwyn » Feb 05, 2016 4:36 pm

The possibility its a false allegation is MORE reason to investigate the matter, not less, and deal with whoever committed which crime.
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Re: UN Panel seem confused re idea of being a fugitive.

#16  Postby GrahamH » Feb 05, 2016 4:44 pm

Rachel Bronwyn wrote:The possibility its a false allegation is MORE reason to investigate the matter, not less, and deal with whoever committed which crime.


If the allegations are false there is every reason to avoid extradition.
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Re: UN Panel seem confused re idea of being a fugitive.

#17  Postby ED209 » Feb 05, 2016 4:51 pm

"Oh Mr Assange, just come out of the embassy so we can help you deal with this slander against you..."

I guess the answer is no thanks.

Actually, reading today about it there is some confusion about whether the victim has actually made a complaint in the first place or whether he has actually been charged with anything. The swedish prosecutor has supposedly asked to question him in relation to 'minor degree rape', not charged him. Apparently also swedish prosecutors have questioned 44 other people within the UK while assange has been claiming asylum, yet they insist assange goes to them. Good thing wikileaks has nothing to do with anything, obviously, or that would look crooked as all fuck.
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Re: UN Panel seem confused re idea of being a fugitive.

#18  Postby mrjonno » Feb 05, 2016 5:08 pm

Couldn't care less about wikileaks or the Swedish charges, he is now an enemy of the British state. Punish him and kick him out to the first state will take him perhaps parachute him into Syria he can then film drone strikes personally
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Re: UN Panel seem confused re idea of being a fugitive.

#19  Postby ED209 » Feb 05, 2016 5:11 pm

And the prize for the most stupid bullshit anywhere on the internet goes to....
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Re: UN Panel seem confused re idea of being a fugitive.

#20  Postby GrahamH » Feb 05, 2016 5:12 pm

mrjonno wrote:Couldn't care less about wikileaks or the Swedish charges, he is now an enemy of the British state. Punish him and kick him out to the first state will take him perhaps parachute him into Syria he can then film drone strikes personally


How is he an enemy of the British state?
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