US administrations misled the people

on Afghanistan, according to new report

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Re: US administrations misled the people

#2  Postby felltoearth » Dec 10, 2019 12:58 pm

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Re: US administrations misled the people

#3  Postby aban57 » Dec 10, 2019 2:10 pm

Why is that ? I only read it in diagonal.
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Re: US administrations misled the people

#4  Postby felltoearth » Dec 10, 2019 4:10 pm

aban57 wrote:Why is that ? I only read it in diagonal.

They basically presented pull quotes from the report with a "rebuttal" for "balance" at the end. No analysis, no context for the report. It's this kind of journalism that simply serves to reinforce group bias because you really can read it any way you want to.
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Re: US administrations misled the people

#5  Postby laklak » Dec 10, 2019 5:13 pm

So in other words, standard U.S. "journalism". Sometimes I despair, but then I spark a J and realize none of it makes a cosmic shitload of difference anyway.
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Re: US administrations misled the people

#6  Postby felltoearth » Dec 10, 2019 5:27 pm

laklak wrote:So in other words, standard U.S. "journalism". Sometimes I despair, but then I spark a J and realize none of it makes a cosmic shitload of difference anyway.

The thing is, if done well it can. See: Watergate and Vietnam War.
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Re: US administrations misled the people

#7  Postby Hermit » Dec 11, 2019 2:57 am

felltoearth wrote:
laklak wrote:So in other words, standard U.S. "journalism". Sometimes I despair, but then I spark a J and realize none of it makes a cosmic shitload of difference anyway.

The thing is, if done well it can. See: Watergate and Vietnam War.

Yabutt, there's no difference whether a people lives in a country run by a bunch of racist kleptocrats with user-pays health care and a murder rate of 5.3/100,000, a country headed by a woman and a parliamentary team with a comprehensive, tax payer funded welfare net and a murder rate of 0.7/100,000 or an absolutist monarch of a bankrupt nation who just bought 11 Rolls Royces for his 15 wives and 125 new BMWs for his outriders, with no social infrastructure worth mentioning and a murder rate of 9.6/100,000. Laklak doesn't see one anyway because that man is an island - as everyone should be.
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Re: US administrations misled the people

#8  Postby laklak » Dec 11, 2019 3:18 am

Shoulda, woulda, coulda. Plenty of things we all should be that we ain't, ask any preacher, they'll tell you.
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Re: US administrations misled the people

#9  Postby Hermit » Dec 11, 2019 4:46 am

laklak wrote:Shoulda, woulda, coulda. Plenty of things we all should be that we ain't, ask any preacher, they'll tell you.

Yes, there are plenty of things we all should be that we ain't. You sound like Seth, who kept arguing that unless perfection can be attained any attempt to change things is futile.

I was listing actual, factual differences between conditions people living in the USA, New Zealand and Eswatini respectively live in, not shoulda, woulda, couldas.
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Re: US administrations misled the people

#10  Postby Cito di Pense » Dec 11, 2019 7:20 am

felltoearth wrote:
laklak wrote:So in other words, standard U.S. "journalism". Sometimes I despair, but then I spark a J and realize none of it makes a cosmic shitload of difference anyway.

The thing is, if done well it can. See: Watergate and Vietnam War.


I think we've had several re-runs of Watergate and Vietnam war crimes in the Internet Age. The new paradigm is "energize your base". What's weird is how much admiration trailer trash have for powerful kleptocrats. It must be some kind of vicarious thrill. And when the bill for that party finally comes due, who gets the blame? Damn furriners. Tralier trash know we libbies look down on them, and this is their revenge.

Really, though, the stealthy restructuring of congressional districts and the equal representation that flyover states get in the Senate come in for some heat, too.
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Re: US administrations misled the people

#11  Postby Cito di Pense » Dec 11, 2019 7:38 am

Hermit wrote:a country headed by a woman and a parliamentary team with a comprehensive, tax payer funded welfare net and a murder rate of 0.7/100,000


Last I heard, NZ is also a hotbed (pun intended) of free enterprise, where tourists to a privately-owned volcanic island end up getting a bit steamed over the irresponsibility of their tour operators. If you're looking for the land where everyone's lovely and peaceful, go with God, Hermit. Let's not make perfect the enemy of good, and keep a hope there's a place where almost everybody is cruddy. Except for thee and me.

And, since this is a thread about how administrations mislead people, we can also note that 40 years after the Mt. Erebus Air NZ accident, they're finally clearing the air (oops!) about all the facts of that case.
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Re: US administrations misled the people

#12  Postby Hermit » Dec 11, 2019 7:52 am

Cito di Pense wrote:If you're looking for the land where everyone's lovely and peaceful...

...New Zealand is not the place to go to. I've actually been there, so I have first hand experience. It is better than others, though. For that we have statistics.

You also have posted in a manner that suggests I made claims about perfection. Not a very attentive reader, are you? My initial post here was limited to contradict laklak's claim along the lines that "none of it makes a cosmic shitload of difference anyway".
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Re: US administrations misled the people

#13  Postby Fallible » Dec 11, 2019 8:53 am

It’s just a knee jerk to someone comparing the US unfavourably to another country.
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Re: US administrations misled the people

#14  Postby Hermit » Dec 11, 2019 9:16 am

Fallible wrote:It’s just a knee jerk to someone comparing the US unfavourably to another country.

Thanks for pointing that out. Probably not for the first time, but my memory is shit. At any rate, it explains Cito's misreading of my post. Rather than being a wilful act, it is a knee-jerk reaction.
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Re: US administrations misled the people

#15  Postby Cito di Pense » Dec 11, 2019 2:03 pm

Hermit wrote:
Fallible wrote:It’s just a knee jerk to someone comparing the US unfavourably to another country.

Thanks for pointing that out. Probably not for the first time, but my memory is shit. At any rate, it explains Cito's misreading of my post. Rather than being a wilful act, it is a knee-jerk reaction.


You're not collecting statistics in a rigorous way, Hermit. Because of the way news media are constituted, and the way English has become the lingua franca for the time being, there is more news per capita about the US reportable here than any place else except maybe for the UK, which as we speak is on the precipice of turning itself into a Second or Third World entity. Since most news is bad news, the US looks pretty bad. You'd have to live there for awhile, dodging the bullets, to appreciate that there's an upside. There wasn't for me, eventually, so I left, although not simply on the coat-tails of my elders; however, I had many fun-filled years there, enjoying life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I actually learned how to use statistics (and even calculus!) while attending several quality US universities.
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Re: US administrations misled the people

#16  Postby laklak » Dec 11, 2019 3:02 pm

You're still looking at it from a limited ground ape's persective, Hermit, while I'm in the more rarefied Kozmik Stoner Zone. Or was, as it's morning now and I'm no wake-n-baker. We'll all be in lone and level sandsville soon enough.
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Re: US administrations misled the people

#17  Postby Hermit » Dec 12, 2019 12:48 am

Cito di Pense wrote:You're not collecting statistics in a rigorous way, Hermit.

Many thanks for pointing that out, Cito. Had you not done so I would have remained under the impression that I had written a thesis concerning all differences between three countries. Thanks to your perspicacity I now realise that I have merely picked three factors that seemed significant to me in order to illustrate that what people do does make a difference to how entire populations live. Murder rates, health systems and what have you do not pop up spontaneously and they change (for better or worse) due to media influences and political campaigns.

Cito di Pense wrote:Since most news is bad news, the US looks pretty bad. You'd have to live there for awhile, dodging the bullets, to appreciate that there's an upside.

Once again you appear to be under the impression that I think in black and white, as in, say, New Zealand = all good, the USA = all bad.
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Re: US administrations misled the people

#18  Postby Cito di Pense » Dec 12, 2019 5:09 am

Hermit wrote:Thanks to your perspicacity I now realise that I have merely picked three factors that seemed significant to me in order to illustrate that what people do does make a difference to how entire populations live.


I'm pleased, then, to find you're guided by the way things seem to you. In another thread, JJ has spent years telling us about the way things seem to him. It's a different world over there, because someone can actually point out facts that contradict his assertions about the way things seem to him. I'll easily grant that your opinions are on safer ground given the paucity of facts available to contradict the way things seem to you, especially about how entire populations live. As far as JJ is concerned, nothing will ever contradict the way things seem to him; you're doing better than that simply by picking a topic on which no one can find any solid facts that support a contradictory position. Well done, you.

Enjoy some facts that relate to how entire populations live:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... egal-basis

I mean, look: Another administration misled the people. It's what administrations do.

My point is that you can find any amount of dirt you like on anybody in order to feed your take on the way things seem to you. My take continues to be that there aren't a bunch of bad guys and a bunch of good guys duking it out. There's just a bunch of ground apes doing what ground apes are prone to do.

Hermit wrote:
Once again you appear to be under the impression that I think in black and white, as in, say, New Zealand = all good, the USA = all bad.


I'm standing by waiting to see if you'll do any more than think about the way things seem to you.

Hermit wrote:Murder rates, health systems and what have you do not pop up spontaneously and they change (for better or worse) due to media influences and political campaigns.


Many thanks for pointing that out, Hermit. Who knew?
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Re: US administrations misled the people

#19  Postby Hermit » Dec 12, 2019 6:13 am


I've read that article already, but thanks anyway. Being an avid reader of (and occasional donator to) the Grauniad, I have also read that Australia ranked worst of 57 countries on climate change policy

No need to educate me about Australia. I am painfully aware of our fuckwitted governments, what they do, and most of all that we keep electing and re-electing them. With the exception of the the period between December 2007 and September 2013 we seem to have preferred the utterly conservative, neoliberal Coalition to the slightly better alternative offered by the Labor Party.

When I say "slightly better" I am excepting racism. Australian politicians of all stripes (except for the Greens) could teach Trump a thing or two on how to be cruel to refugees and asylum seekers, what with our offshore, outsourced concentration camps and the recent repeal of the Medevac Bill. Labor is almost as bad in that regard as the conservatives.

Image
Three Prime Ministers and one Labor leader of the opposition. All from the Labor Party.

It also keeps the sheet anchor firmly engaged in regard to proactive climate control policies. See Adani.

Cito di Pense wrote:...you can find any amount of dirt you like on anybody in order to feed your take on the way things seem to you.

Agreed. What that has to do with my attempt to illustrate that what people do does make a difference to how entire populations live, mystifies me, and with that comment I let you have the last word, should you so desire.
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Re: US administrations misled the people

#20  Postby WayOfTheDodo » Dec 23, 2019 11:57 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:I mean, look: Another administration misled the people. It's what administrations do.

Well great then! Carry on! Business as usual! Let the rich and powerful keep running the country and lying to the people in order to pad their own pockets! Jolly good!
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