When Was The Last Time Iran Started a War?

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Re: When Was The Last Time Iran Started a War?

#61  Postby Propagangster » Jun 13, 2010 1:17 am

Weaver wrote:It could be argued that they last started a war sometime in 2003-2004, when they began actively attacking US and other Coalition Forces in Iraq, both through direct action and through supplied weapons and training.


I guess you don't want to go into the unofficial military interventions involving American troops which have occured in Iran and that began about as far back? :coffee:
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Re: When Was The Last Time Iran Started a War?

#62  Postby Alnilam » Jun 13, 2010 1:18 am

WayOfTheDodo wrote:
You are trying to make Iran look innocent by artificially narrowing down your question.


No, he is clarifying the question in an attempt to stop you lot dodging and pettifoggerying around said question. It's the same question.

If Iran funds terrorist cells, or the Taliban, they are involved and responsible.


The USA has funded the Taliban and trained Bin Laden, they are involved and responsible.

Superlative logic.
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Re: When Was The Last Time Iran Started a War?

#63  Postby james1v » Jun 13, 2010 1:19 am

Alnilam wrote:
james1v wrote:
Alnilam wrote:Your posts seem to be the expert on that so I'll take your word for it. :coffee:



Please point them out, im honest, i will correct them. :think:


Point out where my posts were unfactual about Saudi being just as bad and in some cases worse than Iran.

Although if you did want to source where the President declared war on the rest of humanity I'd be vaguely interested in reading that.


Another quote mine... :think:
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Re: When Was The Last Time Iran Started a War?

#64  Postby WayOfTheDodo » Jun 13, 2010 1:22 am

Alnilam wrote:
WayOfTheDodo wrote:
Alnilam wrote:It was the CIA who funded the Taliban back in the day

Important words: "Back in the day"

So it's ok to fund terrorists if it was a few years ago, that was fine, but anyone funding terrorists now would be deeply wrong and totally incomparable.

I didn't say anything about anything being OK. The discussion is about whether Iran has started any wars lately. I explained how they did, by funding terrorism. But I think the question is deceptively and artificially narrow.
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Re: When Was The Last Time Iran Started a War?

#65  Postby Alnilam » Jun 13, 2010 1:24 am

james1v wrote:
Alnilam wrote:
james1v wrote:
Alnilam wrote:Your posts seem to be the expert on that so I'll take your word for it. :coffee:



Please point them out, im honest, i will correct them. :think:


Point out where my posts were unfactual about Saudi being just as bad and in some cases worse than Iran.

Although if you did want to source where the President declared war on the rest of humanity I'd be vaguely interested in reading that.


Another quote mine... :think:


Nope.

You said "The current government have declared war on the whole of humanity". The leader of the current government is the President. No one else can declare war other than the President. Can some underling in the Obama administration declare war on someone? I think not. I would be interested in seeing where President Ahmadinejad has declared war on the whole of humanity. If you can't provide a link to where it says President Ahmadinejad himself declared war on humanity, which would be the only official way of the government of Iran to declare war, I will accept your submission of the thing you are attempting to pass off as official policy.
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Re: When Was The Last Time Iran Started a War?

#66  Postby Alnilam » Jun 13, 2010 1:26 am

WayOfTheDodo wrote:
Alnilam wrote:
WayOfTheDodo wrote:
Alnilam wrote:It was the CIA who funded the Taliban back in the day

Important words: "Back in the day"

So it's ok to fund terrorists if it was a few years ago, that was fine, but anyone funding terrorists now would be deeply wrong and totally incomparable.

I didn't say anything about anything being OK. The discussion is about whether Iran has started any wars lately. I explained how they did, by funding terrorism. But I think the question is deceptively and artificially narrow.


Your explanation was hokum and pettifoggery.

(Clutching at straws)
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:insane:
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Re: When Was The Last Time Iran Started a War?

#67  Postby Alnilam » Jun 13, 2010 1:27 am

Bedtime for little old me. I shall return to Andys so far unanswered question thread later on.
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Re: When Was The Last Time Iran Started a War?

#68  Postby Madmaili » Jun 13, 2010 1:28 am

WayOfTheDodo wrote:If Iran funds terrorist cells, or the Taliban, they are involved and responsible.

By that same logic the Untied states is responsible for every Palestinian civilian that Israel has ever dispatched. So are the British by the way.
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Re: When Was The Last Time Iran Started a War?

#69  Postby andyx1205 » Jun 13, 2010 1:28 am

WayOfTheDodo wrote:
Alnilam wrote:
WayOfTheDodo wrote:
Alnilam wrote:It was the CIA who funded the Taliban back in the day

Important words: "Back in the day"

So it's ok to fund terrorists if it was a few years ago, that was fine, but anyone funding terrorists now would be deeply wrong and totally incomparable.

I didn't say anything about anything being OK. The discussion is about whether Iran has started any wars lately. I explained how they did, by funding terrorism. But I think the question is deceptively and artificially narrow.


You said that Iran started the War in Afghanistan by funding the Taliban that attacked the WTC, even though the Taliban didn't attack America but Al Qaeda did. I'd like to see some evidence that shows Iran's connection to 9/11.

You sir, have no idea what you are talking about.
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Re: When Was The Last Time Iran Started a War?

#70  Postby Propagangster » Jun 13, 2010 1:35 am

If I was part of the Iranian authority, with the world's premier military power right next door occupying Iraq, and maintaining a threatening stance on Iran, I may get involved, indirectly, to some extent to make that conflict a bit more difficult as a means to prevent an invasion against my country - hypothetically speaking.
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Re: When Was The Last Time Iran Started a War?

#71  Postby Mayak » Jun 13, 2010 1:55 am

Is the reasoning behind the question that since Iran does not have a warmongering past than it will not have a warmongering future?

(if it is, then that is pretty damn stupid reasoning)
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Re: When Was The Last Time Iran Started a War?

#72  Postby andyx1205 » Jun 13, 2010 2:01 am

Mayak wrote:Is the reasoning behind the question that since Iran does not have a warmongering past than it will not have a warmongering future?

(if it is then that is then that is pretty damn stupid reasoning)


We do not know if Iran will or will not have a warmongering future. I don't have magical powers that allow me to look into the future. Nonetheless, empirical evidence points towards the hypothesis that a future major war involving Iran is very unlikely to be initiated by Iran. It may be initiated by Iran, but it is very unlikely.
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Re: When Was The Last Time Iran Started a War?

#73  Postby Mayak » Jun 13, 2010 2:10 am

andyx1205 wrote:
Mayak wrote:Is the reasoning behind the question that since Iran does not have a warmongering past than it will not have a warmongering future?

(if it is then that is then that is pretty damn stupid reasoning)


We do not know if Iran will or will not have a warmongering future. I don't have magical powers that allow me to look into the future. Nonetheless, empirical evidence points towards the hypothesis that a future major war involving Iran is very unlikelyto be initiated by Iran. It may be initiated by Iran, but it is very unlikely.



Evidence?

:rofl:

Dude, first you say we don't know. Then you say we do know! :lol: And top of the fact that you have no idea of the social, religious, and economic considerations that are never constant.

This is a joke of a thread. :thumbdown:
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Re: When Was The Last Time Iran Started a War?

#74  Postby Toontown » Jun 13, 2010 2:20 am

Propagangster wrote:If I was part of the Iranian authority, with the world's premier military power right next door occupying Iraq, and maintaining a threatening stance on Iran, I may get involved, indirectly, to some extent to make that conflict a bit more difficult as a means to prevent an invasion against my country - hypothetically speaking.


Why? Do you want to be the enemy of the world's premier military power? Do you want it to attack you? That's not very intelligent.

Particularly when you've got 12 of the 15 members of the UNSC eyeballing you and passing a new round of sanctions. And several European countries considering imposing their own individual sanctions.

Not very intelligent at all.

But of course, the UNSC are all bad guys. Israel too. Iran is the only good guy, simply because blitzkrieg invasions are not Iran's preferred way of fucking up other countries. Iran prefers infiltrating them with saboteurs to open invasion. That way, Andyx can dubiously claim that Iran never "invades" other countries. Well, not in the blitzkreig sense. And that's important, because...well, it's important for overtly dishonest propagandistic reasons.

It's like saying heartworms don't really "invade" dogs. They just sneak in and fuck them up big time. You know, like the Iranian saboteurs have been fucking up thousands of Iraqi civilians for years. But that's not like an "invasion". Nothing at all like an invasion. Because it would be inconvenient for Andyx's propagandistic purposes to define sending in saboteurs with sophisticated explosive devices as an "invasion". Very inconvenient.

BTW, the latest direct Iranian military incursion into Iraq was apparently last friday. Reuters reports that, according to Iraq, Iranian troops seized an Iraqi oil field near the border. The Iranians, of course, deny it, for whatever that's worth. But of course, that kind of provocation doesn't fit Andyx's narrow definition either. As long as they just lop off little slices of Iraq here and there, it's not "invasion" in the Andyx sense.

So it really is like saying heartworms don't actually "invade" dogs. Technically, they don't, if you narrowly define "invade" as a massive incursion of hundreds of thousands of troops, or heartworms driving little heartworm tanks. We all know that's not the way Iranians and heartworms operate. And there is only one kind of aggression that is being considered here by Andyx and his cohorts. That would be precisely the kind of aggression that Iran does not prefer and has not done for a while. Unless you count the incursions. Which, of course, you don't. Because that would be inconvenient.

How conveeeeenient...
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Re: When Was The Last Time Iran Started a War?

#75  Postby andyx1205 » Jun 13, 2010 2:22 am

Mayak wrote:
andyx1205 wrote:
Mayak wrote:Is the reasoning behind the question that since Iran does not have a warmongering past than it will not have a warmongering future?

(if it is then that is then that is pretty damn stupid reasoning)


We do not know if Iran will or will not have a warmongering future. I don't have magical powers that allow me to look into the future. Nonetheless, empirical evidence points towards the hypothesis that a future major war involving Iran is very unlikelyto be initiated by Iran. It may be initiated by Iran, but it is very unlikely.



Evidence?

:rofl:

Dude, first you say we don't know. Then you say we do know! :lol: And top of the fact that you have no idea of the social, religious, and economic considerations that are never constant.

This is a joke of a thread. :thumbdown:


I never said I "know" anything. Lets read that post again.

What do know? We do not know if Iran will or will not have a warmongering future.
= we do not know with 100% certainty what Iran may or may not do

empirical evidence points towards the hypothesis that a future major war involving Iran is very unlikely to be initiated by Iran.
= we do not know if Iran will start a war in the future, however, it is very unlikely for it to do so
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Re: When Was The Last Time Iran Started a War?

#76  Postby Mayak » Jun 13, 2010 2:33 am

andyx1205 wrote:
Mayak wrote:
andyx1205 wrote:
Mayak wrote:Is the reasoning behind the question that since Iran does not have a warmongering past than it will not have a warmongering future?

(if it is then that is then that is pretty damn stupid reasoning)


We do not know if Iran will or will not have a warmongering future. I don't have magical powers that allow me to look into the future. Nonetheless, empirical evidence points towards the hypothesis that a future major war involving Iran is very unlikelyto be initiated by Iran. It may be initiated by Iran, but it is very unlikely.



Evidence?

:rofl:

Dude, first you say we don't know. Then you say we do know! :lol: And top of the fact that you have no idea of the social, religious, and economic considerations that are never constant.

This is a joke of a thread. :thumbdown:


I never said I "know" anything. Lets read that post again.

What do know? We do not know if Iran will or will not have a warmongering future.
= we do not know with 100% certainty what Iran may or may not do

empirical evidence points towards the hypothesis that a future major war involving Iran is very unlikely to be initiated by Iran.
= we do not know if Iran will start a war in the future, however, it is very unlikely for it to do so


You know:

1) there is empirical evidence for your claim. You haven't shown any though :scratch: .
2) the non-existent empirical evidence you provided proves that it is unlikely for Iran to initiate a conflict


Fail. :thumbdown:
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Re: When Was The Last Time Iran Started a War?

#77  Postby andyx1205 » Jun 13, 2010 2:41 am

I haven't shown any empirical evidence? The last time Iran started a war by attacking/invading another country was in the middle of the 1800s. If Iran didn't start a war by attacking/invading another country for 250 years, the chances of it breaking that record are very slim. They're not non-existent, but they're very slim.
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Re: When Was The Last Time Iran Started a War?

#78  Postby Toontown » Jun 13, 2010 2:48 am

We know, in part, what Iran is doing now. Iran is, among other things, sending saboteurs into Iraq, launching troop incursions into Iraq, helping it's surrogate Hisbollah maintain it's death grip on Lebanon, enriching far more uranium than it would need to run a reactor, and developing medium and long range offensive missiles, the intended payloads of which remain a matter of ignorance among...well, the willfully ignorant.

And training and equipping a large army.

And dishonestly maintaining it's nominal membership in the NPT while simultaneously refusing to cooperate with the IAEA and the UNSC in violation of it's NPT obligations.

And that's just a sampling of what we know for facts.

And yet there is no empirical evidence that Iran might start a war. None whatsoever. Unless you count the empirical evidence.
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Re: When Was The Last Time Iran Started a War?

#79  Postby Propagangster » Jun 13, 2010 2:55 am

Toontown wrote:
Propagangster wrote:If I was part of the Iranian authority, with the world's premier military power right next door occupying Iraq, and maintaining a threatening stance on Iran, I may get involved, indirectly, to some extent to make that conflict a bit more difficult as a means to prevent an invasion against my country - hypothetically speaking.


Why? Do you want to be the enemy of the world's premier military power? Do you want it to attack you? That's not very intelligent.


It seems clear that the Iranian authority is already defined as an enemy of the United States, and my point is that Iran may have an interest in keeping the situation difficult in Iraq as, without a secured Iraq, It will prove more difficult to carry out an invasion of Iran, for one, as it may also cause the situation in Iraq to degenerate rapidly - Hence, double your trouble.

I don't deny that Iran may have had dealings with insurgents in Iraq to this effect. However, I do not overlook that it has been documented that covert military operations involving US troops have also been carried out in Iran. Again, this is not the one-sided affair some would like for it to be.

I have no intention to legitimize the rest of your post by addressing it, especially as it contains personal attacks against a fellow member, and one which I genuinely respect.
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Re: When Was The Last Time Iran Started a War?

#80  Postby andyx1205 » Jun 13, 2010 2:55 am

Toontown wrote:We know, in part, what Iran is doing now. Iran is, among other things, sending saboteurs into Iraq, launching troop incursions into Iraq, helping it's surrogate Hisbollah maintain it's death grip on Lebanon, enriching far more uranium than it would need to run a reactor, and developing medium and long range offensive missiles, the intended payloads of which remain a matter of ignorance among...well, the willfully ignorant.

And training and equipping a large army.

And dishonestly maintaining it's nominal membership in the NPT while simultaneously refusing to cooperate with the IAEA and the UNSC in violation of it's NPT obligations.

And that's just a sampling of what we know for facts.

And yet there is no empirical evidence that Iran might start a war. None whatsoever. Unless you count the empirical evidence.


There's a difference between giving aid and supplies to terrorists and "starting wars by invading/attacking countries." Canada made some money by selling arms to Indonesia when Suharto invaded East Timor, but that doesn't mean that Canada's financing of terrorists (Indonesia was terrorizing East Timor) makes it more likely for Canada to start a major war by attacking/invading another country.

Poking around in other countries for economic and political reasons is different from outright starting major wars by invading/attacking other countries.
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