Why PIRACY IS a POSITIVE thing.

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Why PIRACY IS a POSITIVE thing.

 
 

Why PIRACY IS a POSITIVE thing.

#1  Postby MattHunX » Jan 22, 2012 3:24 pm

Yep.

I'll just mention movies and documentaries, not even the action, adventure...etc. genre, but educational ones. I've read this whole SOPA and PIPA idiocy may even affect sites like YouTube. Well, screw them very much!

If it weren't for piracy, torrents sites, YouTube...etc. I wouldn't even know this forum exist. I wouldn't have even heard of Dawkins, Hitchens, Dennett, Harris, Barker, Tyson, Krauss, Filippenko...etc. I wouldn't have even seen all the documentaries and other educational material that I have in these few years, which gave me more knowledge about the world than the poor education system we have in my country (and as I hear, in lots of others). And lets not even go into Wikipedia's recent struggle.

Television in my country is worthless. All educational programs are imported, dubbed from abroad. Sometimes, with serious mistakes, with no care at all. I couldn't have even learned English, as well as I did, without watching loads of television series, cartoons and movies that I got from torrent sites.

Apart from that obvious benefit of piracy, companies and the like shouldn't cry about lost profit, either. For every thousand internet users who get a pirated version of some product, there are thousands more who actually buy it*. They "lose" a lot more profit in the pockets of CEOs and other big-wigs. Most of the stuff that I have downloaded over the years I'd wager I could only obtain a fraction of it in my country. Delivered or personally purchased, doesn't matter, especially quality documentary series and science + religion debates.

And besides all that, I have just one simple question to ask the authorities/governments/companies...etc. Do they have enough prison cells/are they willing to handle as many lawsuits as there are internet users WORLDWIDE? Didn't think so. So they should shut the hell up. The people who want to regulate the internet more, are the same ones who want organizations like WikiLeaks silenced. They're afraid of the scrutiny and prodding. They're afraid their dirty laundry can (and eventually will) be hung out for all to see, along with their (likely) ignorance and hypocrisy, as well. Their priority is themselves, again. Their own vanity and their public image and public/financial support. Nothing else to it.


*I remember when I saw The Man From Earth, and the producer, Emerson Bixby (the son of Jerome Bixby) saying, he's thankful for the publicity, for uploaders who actually helped popularize the movie, and get as many fans and buyers, because they've had zero budget for publicity. He said that if he ever makes another movie like that he might just upload it on the net himself. That's a way to look at it. How do documentaries get so many viewers and get people interested and their need for information satisfied? YouTube and Wikipedia + Torrent sites.
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Re: Why PIRACY IS a POSITIVE thing.

#2  Postby Agrippina » Jan 22, 2012 3:51 pm

I agree with you completely When Christopher Hitchens died, the only people in my community who knew who he was, were other atheists and people who actually read my FB feed. His death was not even mentioned on SA TV news. Without the sites you mentioned I would never have met any of you, or have learnt as much as I know now about religion and the whole earth science thing. It's all thanks to the internet and the information that's easily accessible here. There's no way that this country's TV will ever screen a debate between atheists and believers or even mention RD speaking out against the Pope's visit to the UK, or anything like that.

And then there are all the TV movies and mini-series that we have to wait for for years and we're lucky if we ever get to see them. Whenever I watch the Golden Globes and the Emmys I deliberately note movies and series we haven't had on our satellite service and I look for them. If I like them enough I'll buy the DVDs. For instance the final season of the West Wing. We didn't see it until two years after it was broadcast in the rest of the world. I only saw it because I bought the box set from the UK with me. Then finally Sony television broadcast the series from the beginning and then we only saw the last season, and when I asked why not, our satellite provider said there was "not enough interest in American politics."

Ridiculous.
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Re: Why PIRACY IS a POSITIVE thing.

#3  Postby j.mills » Jan 22, 2012 3:52 pm

1. By no means is every instance of copyright infringement a "lost sale", since in many (I'd guess most) such instances the 'consumer' would not have been prepared to pay retail price for the experience.

2. Some instances of copyright infringement lead to extra sales, as the 'consumer' is exposed to material they otherwise would not have encountered, and may follow the artist, band, writer or director in future. (I've seen folk duo Show Of Hands a few times, and they always encourage the audience to copy their CDs and pass them around, because they've had so many people come to their concerts and sheepishly admit that they first heard the band that way.)

3. Certainly the people trying to prevent "piracy" are exaggerating both their losses and their concern for artistic endeavour.

4. That said, we do need some mechanism for appropriately rewarding artists and funding the creative industries.

5. Whether all this presently adds up to a positive or negative financial effect on the creative industries is unclear to me, and I suspect it is not genuinely known by anybody!
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Re: Why PIRACY IS a POSITIVE thing.

#4  Postby j.mills » Jan 22, 2012 3:54 pm

Agrippina wrote:Then finally Sony television broadcast the series from the beginning and then we only saw the last season, and when I asked why not, our satellite provider said there was "not enough interest in American politics."

Or rather, not enough interest at your satellite provider's HQ in treating their customers with courtesy and finishing what they started.
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Re: Why PIRACY IS a POSITIVE thing.

#5  Postby Agrippina » Jan 22, 2012 5:04 pm

j.mills wrote:
Agrippina wrote:Then finally Sony television broadcast the series from the beginning and then we only saw the last season, and when I asked why not, our satellite provider said there was "not enough interest in American politics."

Or rather, not enough interest at your satellite provider's HQ in treating their customers with courtesy and finishing what they started.


Exactly. They did eventually show it but on a channel that no one really bothers to watch and at a time that forced people to record it to see it. But that was more than four years after the previous season. They do that all the time. I spoke about Bones earlier, our public broadcaster showed only the first season, and because there was no interest in it by the majority of the population, we didn't get the rest of it. When I asked why our satellite provider didn't take it up, they said they couldn't because the SABC had the rights, now the second satellite provider has the rights but I'm not paying more for another system and they show the same seasons over and over and over. They say they have to allow all the new customers to catch up, so guess how I see Bones?
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Re: Why PIRACY IS a POSITIVE thing.

#6  Postby Jakov » Jan 22, 2012 5:05 pm

Wait, so you're saying knowledge is more important than profits?

What are you, some kind of communist? :coffee:
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Re: Why PIRACY IS a POSITIVE thing.

#7  Postby NineBerry » Jan 22, 2012 5:46 pm

My thoughts on S.O.P.A.

by Paulo Coelho on January 20, 2012

IN THE former Soviet Union, in the late 1950s and 60s, many books that questioned the political system began to be circulated privately in mimeographed form. Their authors never earned a penny in royalties. On the contrary, they were persecuted, denounced in the official press, and sent into exile in the notorious Siberian gulags. Yet they continued to write.

Why? Because they needed to share what they were feeling. From the Gospels to political manifestos, literature has allowed ideas to travel and even to change the world.

I have nothing against people earning money from their books; that’s how I make my living.
But look at what’s happening now. Stop Online Piracy Act (S.O.P.A) may disrupt internet. This is a REAL DANGER, not only for Americans, but for all of us, as the law – if approved – will affect the whole planet.

And how do I feel about this?
As an author, I should be defending ‘intellectual property’, but I’m not.

Pirates of the world, unite and pirate everything I’ve ever written!

The good old days, when each idea had an owner, are gone forever.
First, because all anyone ever does is recycle the same four themes: a love story between two people, a love triangle, the struggle for power, and the story of a journey.
Second, because all writers want what they write to be read, whether in a newspaper, blog, pamphlet, or on a wall.

The more often we hear a song on the radio, the keener we are to buy the CD. It’s the same with literature.

The more people ‘pirate’ a book, the better. If they like the beginning, they’ll buy the whole book the next day, because there’s nothing more tiring than reading long screeds of text on a computer screen.

1. Some people will say: You’re rich enough to allow your books to be distributed for free.

That’s true. I am rich. But was it the desire to make money that drove me to write? No. My family and my teachers all said that there was no future in writing.
I started writing and I continue to write because it gives me pleasure and gives meaning to my existence. If money were the motive, I could have stopped writing ages ago and saved myself having to put up with invariably negative reviews.

2. The publishing industry will say: Artists can’t survive if they’re not paid.

In 1999, when I was first published in Russia ( with a print- run of 3,000), the country was suffering a severe paper shortage. By chance, I discovered a ‘ pirate’ edition of The Alchemist and posted it on my web page.
An year later, when the crisis was resolved, I sold 10,000 copies of the print edition.
By 2002, I had sold a million copies in Russia, and I have now sold over 12 million.

When I traveled across Russia by train, I met several people who told me that they had first discovered my work through the ‘ pirated’ edition I posted on my website. Nowadays, I run a ‘Pirate Coelho’ website, giving links to any books of mine that are available on P2P sites.
And my sales continue to grow — nearly 140 million copies world wide.

When you’ve eaten an orange, you have to go back to the shop to buy another. In that case, it makes sense to pay on the spot.
With an object of art, you’re not buying paper, ink, paintbrush, canvas or musical notes, but the idea born out of a combination of those products.

‘Pirating’ can act as an introduction to an artist’s work. If you like his or her idea, then you will want to have it in your house; a good idea doesn’t need protection.

The rest is either greed or ignorance


http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2012/01/20/w ... -my-books/
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Re: Why PIRACY IS a POSITIVE thing.

#8  Postby NineBerry » Jan 22, 2012 5:49 pm

Busta Rhymes Backs Megaupload, Says Record Labels Are The Real Criminals

[...]

There's a key point in all of this that we missed in our earlier analysis about paid accounts at Megaupload. In the indictment, the government seems to assume that paid accounts are clearly all about illegal infringing works. But that's not always the case. In fact, plenty of big name artists -- especially in the hip hop world -- use the paid accounts to make themselves money. This is how they release tracks. You sign up for a paid account from services like Megaupload, which pay you if you get a ton of downloads. For big name artists, that's easy: of course you get a ton of downloads. So it's a great business model for artists: they get paid and their fans get music for free. Everyone wins. Oh... except for the old gatekeeper labels.

In fact, this is part of the ecosystem, especially in the hip hop world. It's why the artists also support those hip hop blogs that the RIAA insists are dens of pure thievery. The artists release their tracks to those blogs, knowing they'll get tons of downloads -- and actually get money. If they do deals with labels, they know they'll never see a dime. Putting music on Megaupload is a way to get paid. Working with a gatekeeper is not.


[...]


http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201201 ... nals.shtml
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Re: Why PIRACY IS a POSITIVE thing.

#9  Postby Ihavenofingerprints » Jan 22, 2012 5:58 pm

If every "pirate" website was wiped off the face of the Earth tomorrow... The film and music industry would be crippled and they'd start losing profits. There would be much less interest in music and all those award shows would lose sponsors and die off.

They should just move the fuck on and start focusing their efforts on products which can't be carbon-copied in the space of 10 seconds. I'll buy a blue-ray DVD because you don't get the same quality on an internet copy. But I wont pay $10 for 5 .mp3 songs that I can copy in about 20 seconds.

These companies just want to sit back and make money forever by selling copies of .mp3 files. That is just lazy.
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#10  Postby BlackBart » Jan 22, 2012 5:58 pm

All legal copies of FW Murnau's film Nostferatu were destroyed after Bram Stoker's estate sued for breach of copyright. If it wasn't for pirate copies this film would have been lost.
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Re: Why PIRACY IS a POSITIVE thing.

#11  Postby PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn » Jan 22, 2012 6:19 pm

not to mention numerous studies that show most people who pirate spend more on average on music/video/games that the rest
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/illegal-downloaders-spend-the-most-on-music-says-poll-1812776.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/apr/21/study-finds-pirates-buy-more-music

take me for example, I discovered Dream Theater by accident. was on a Muse website and someone said mentioned John Petrucci as an amazing guitarist, so I looked him up on youtube and discovered Dream Theater from there. Technically I was a pirate because I watched the video on youtube, (and was removed 2-3 years after I found it) but as a result of finding it I now own the entire Dream Theater album back catalog. same applies to Tim Minchin - looked him up due to a quote by Paula, as a result own all 3 of his dvds, have been to see him live and will be going again next time he visits Wales.

what really pisses me off is the fact that as a PAYING customer, you get bundled with all kinds of DRM crap, that often makes the product virtually unusable. (I have a few CDs that wont rip (in windows anyway) so I cant listen to them on my MP3 player) I've bought the fucking music, but am not allowed to put it in a form that allows me easy access to listen to it....

then you look at legal downloads. CD version £9.99, MP3 version £7.99, really?? why the hell would I get the MP3 version, first off I'm using .ogg now, and secondly its in a lossy format, with all sorts of DRM crap all over it. this gets even sillier when you look at ebooks, Terry Pratchet book, Hardback £9.99, Ebook £20.
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#12  Postby Wiðercora » Jan 22, 2012 6:25 pm

Ihavenofingerprints wrote:They should just move the fuck on and start focusing their efforts on products which can't be carbon-copied in the space of 10 seconds. I'll buy a blue-ray DVD because you don't get the same quality on an internet copy. But I wont pay $10 for 5 .mp3 songs that I can copy in about 20 seconds.


$10 for 5 songs? You're seriously being ripped off there. I think the last album I bought digitally* was £5 for 10 songs. And it was so worth it.

this gets even sillier when you look at ebooks, Terry Pratchet book, Hardback £9.99, Ebook £20.


Where were you buying that from? Without exception, every eBook I've seen for my Kindle has been less expensive than the hard copy. The Discworld series seem to be about a fiver each, which I think is fair for the amount of time and effort that goes into writing them.

*Professor Elemental's The Indifference Engine off the Tea Sea records website.
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Re: Why PIRACY IS a POSITIVE thing.

#13  Postby BrandySpears » Jan 22, 2012 6:33 pm

MattHunX wrote:

If it weren't for piracy, torrents sites, YouTube...etc. I wouldn't even know this forum exist. I wouldn't have even heard of Dawkins, Hitchens, Dennett, Harris, Barker, Tyson, Krauss, Filippenko...etc. I wouldn't have even seen all the documentaries and other educational material that I have in these few years, which gave me more knowledge about the world than the poor education system we have in my country (and as I hear, in lots of others). And lets not even go into Wikipedia's recent struggle.


Where can I find illegal downloads of all of Hitchens' books? His family and beneficiaries of his work have made enough money off them.


Yeah , you're right. You probably wouldn't have heard of any of them because of piracy. They'd all be destitute and employed at McDonanlds.
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#14  Postby AndreD » Jan 22, 2012 7:14 pm

Wiðercora wrote:
Ihavenofingerprints wrote:They should just move the fuck on and start focusing their efforts on products which can't be carbon-copied in the space of 10 seconds. I'll buy a blue-ray DVD because you don't get the same quality on an internet copy. But I wont pay $10 for 5 .mp3 songs that I can copy in about 20 seconds.


$10 for 5 songs? You're seriously being ripped off there. I think the last album I bought digitally* was £5 for 10 songs. And it was so worth it.



iTunes Australia store charges between $1.20 and $2.20 per song (I suppose depending on which record label owns it and I think the cheapest tend to be singles). Most seem to be $2.20.
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#15  Postby Wiðercora » Jan 22, 2012 7:18 pm

AndreD wrote:
Wiðercora wrote:
Ihavenofingerprints wrote:They should just move the fuck on and start focusing their efforts on products which can't be carbon-copied in the space of 10 seconds. I'll buy a blue-ray DVD because you don't get the same quality on an internet copy. But I wont pay $10 for 5 .mp3 songs that I can copy in about 20 seconds.


$10 for 5 songs? You're seriously being ripped off there. I think the last album I bought digitally* was £5 for 10 songs. And it was so worth it.



iTunes Australia store charges between $1.20 and $2.20 per song (I suppose depending on which record label owns it and I think the cheapest tend to be singles). Most seem to be $2.20.


£1.40 a song? Jesus wept.
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#16  Postby josephchoi » Jan 22, 2012 7:22 pm

:coffee:
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#17  Postby Teox » Jan 22, 2012 8:10 pm

josephchoi wrote::coffee:



:lol:
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#18  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jan 22, 2012 8:31 pm

PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn wrote:not to mention numerous studies that show most people who pirate spend more on average on music/video/games that the rest
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/illegal-downloaders-spend-the-most-on-music-says-poll-1812776.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/apr/21/study-finds-pirates-buy-more-music

:nod:

My music purchases skyrocketed when I found Napster back in the day. Since then, I can't walk into a record store without finding something to buy.

My digital purchases would also increase sharply if a .wav or FLAC version didn't cost as much as a hard copy. These record executive fucks just do not get it, they want to charge you just as much for a product that costs them less than it ever has.
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#19  Postby MoonLit » Jan 22, 2012 9:03 pm

Wasn't there an article about an author who first offered their ebooks online for free, and than offered paid versions along side them; which actually increased the sales of said books all the while their publisher was having a fucking cow over the books being offered for free.

Wish I could find it, it was pretty far back but is so damn relevant. I refuse to pay for a movie/song I hate, so I download it for free first to see if I do like it. If I like it, I try to buy it. If not, it gets deleted. The music/movie industry would therefore not be losing out on money from me because I would not buy the damn thing in the first fucking place if I don't like it.

But they want us to pay for it, even without knowing whether or not it's any good and worth the money. Well, fuck 'em. (Not literally!)
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Re: Why PIRACY IS a POSITIVE thing.

 
 

Re: Why PIRACY IS a POSITIVE thing.

#20  Postby NineBerry » Jan 22, 2012 9:09 pm

See Paulo Coehlho above :)
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