Yulin dog meat festival (tortuous Chinese)

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Re: Yulin dog meat festival (tortuous Chinese)

#21  Postby The Serpent » Jan 02, 2018 4:50 am

Well, I've eaten dog meat. Not in China, but in Hanoi in Vietnam.

It's almost always only served at specialty restaurants which are somewhat common in the North. They have signs out the front advertising "thịt chó" (thịt == meat and chó == dog).

For the Vietnamese it's largely a northern thing, presumably a Chinese influence. In the central region and the south thịt chó is much less common, though I was told Catholics in the south eat thịt chó at Christmas. My guide told me "Basically dog is Catholic turkey." :shock:

When enquiring about what breed was preferred on the dinner table, I was told that the Vietnamese have three classes of dog. Those kept as pets, those used as working dogs largely for security and those raised specially for meat. From what I could gather the Vietnamese are more discerning about the sort of dogs on which they chow (sorry :oops: ) down than the Chinese or the Koreans.

I have no firsthand knowledge about the husbandry and slaughter conditions of dogs raised for meat but it's Vietnam so I imagine the lot of a meat dog is not a happy one. Whether meat dogs suffer the same excruciating fate as those in China and Korea, I cannot say for certain but I would not be surprised.

But then, as with so much of the Mysterious Far East, the plight of animals used for food is not high on the Index of Concern.

Dog meat is not eaten every day. It's viewed as a delicacy and (as with many food things in the East) is considered medicinal. Dog meat is usually served in a stew or soup with vegetables and wheat noodles and is thought to increase "warm energy" or some such. It considered especially efficacious for invalids, the infirm and older folk.

As a delicacy -- it's also a status symbol. Being able to eat and treat others to a meal of thịt chó can say a fair bit about your standing. You have money and the like. It shows respect for social superiors. This is important in Vietnam.

So what does thịt chó taste like? I must say I wasn't that keen on it. The meat itself is quite dense in texture. It has peculiar flavour, not unpleasant but not something I'd eat again in a hurry. The soup/stew it was served in was quite strongly flavoured -- which is unusual in traditional Vietnamese cuisine, where fresh and light flavours are generally preferred.
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Re: Yulin dog meat festival (tortuous Chinese)

#22  Postby Fenrir » Jan 02, 2018 5:22 am

I've eaten dog. On Borneo. Was staying at a construction camp and it was one of the many religious festivals. Didn't realise it was dog till the next day when we noticed most of the camp dogs had disappeared.

It was delicious.
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Re: Yulin dog meat festival (tortuous Chinese)

#23  Postby The Serpent » Jan 02, 2018 6:08 am

Fenrir wrote:I've eaten dog. On Borneo. Was staying at a construction camp and it was one of the many religious festivals. Didn't realise it was dog till the next day when we noticed most of the camp dogs had disappeared.

It was delicious.


I've read about this practice in Indon. I believe it's common place in Bali too. The local strays used to make cheap satay for the tourists on Kuta and the like.
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Re: Yulin dog meat festival (tortuous Chinese)

#24  Postby CarlPierce » Jan 02, 2018 12:42 pm

Its the fucking boiling alive bit that is sick and completely unacceptable. Completely different argument as to whether we should eat dogs most posting here missing the point as usual. Stick your hand in boiling water then tell me its somehow ok.
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Re: Yulin dog meat festival (tortuous Chinese)

#25  Postby Rachel Bronwyn » Jan 02, 2018 3:51 pm

I'm not sure how you put a live dog in a pot and keep it in there until it's cooked. It would be vastly more complicated than killing the animal, chopping off the bits you don't want and chucking the rest in boiling water.

Admittedly, I'd rather not google this topic to verify the matter.
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Re: Yulin dog meat festival (tortuous Chinese)

#26  Postby felltoearth » Jan 02, 2018 6:10 pm

Rachel Bronwyn wrote:
Admittedly, I'd rather not google this topic to verify the matter.


No kidding. It's nothing that really has to be researched in order to understand the issue.
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Re: Yulin dog meat festival (tortuous Chinese)

#27  Postby The_Metatron » Jan 02, 2018 6:44 pm

There's a dish in Korea made of dog: kyegogi. I've never had it, though. Never saw the point.

From an energy perspective, it's bad enough eating animals. Eating a predator is worse than that. Totally unsustainable.
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Re: Yulin dog meat festival (tortuous Chinese)

#28  Postby laklak » Jan 03, 2018 5:12 am

I was wondering about that, we generally don't eat other carnivores. There are a few exceptions - fish, for example, or bears (who are actually omnivorous). Could be because carnivores aren't easy to raise as livestock, or maybe it's professional courtesy. It's hard to herd wolves or lions, much easier with cattle or sheep.

Imagine trying to round up wolverines.
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Re: Yulin dog meat festival (tortuous Chinese)

#29  Postby Rachel Bronwyn » Jan 03, 2018 5:55 am

Mink are easily farmed. Wolverines can't be much harder.
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Re: Yulin dog meat festival (tortuous Chinese)

#30  Postby The_Piper » Jan 03, 2018 7:18 am

I'm going to guess because they're usually too lean. Bears are fat enough, but they're omnivores. Lots of people Maine-iacs eat those. Chickens are yummy carnivores.
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Re: Yulin dog meat festival (tortuous Chinese)

#31  Postby Agi Hammerthief » Jan 03, 2018 12:28 pm

laklak wrote:I was wondering about that, we generally don't eat other carnivores. There are a few exceptions - fish, for example, or bears (who are actually omnivorous). Could be because carnivores aren't easy to raise as livestock, or maybe it's professional courtesy. It's hard to herd wolves or lions, much easier with cattle or sheep.

Imagine trying to round up wolverines.

By the time you can feed carnivores you already have meat, so why bother?
Unless the feed is insects or waste or free range other stuff they find for themselves.
* my (modified) emphasis ( or 'interpretation' )
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Re: Yulin dog meat festival (tortuous Chinese)

#32  Postby aban57 » Jan 03, 2018 12:38 pm

The_Piper wrote:I'm going to guess because they're usually too lean. Bears are fat enough, but they're omnivores. Lots of people Maine-iacs eat those. Chickens are yummy carnivores.


I didn't know people ate bears.
You guys are so weird. You speak some French, eat bears, what else ?
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Re: Yulin dog meat festival (tortuous Chinese)

#33  Postby felltoearth » Jan 03, 2018 1:05 pm

They guard the Bifröst Bridge.
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Re: Yulin dog meat festival (tortuous Chinese)

#34  Postby The_Metatron » Jan 03, 2018 5:02 pm

aban57 wrote:
The_Piper wrote:I'm going to guess because they're usually too lean. Bears are fat enough, but they're omnivores. Lots of people Maine-iacs eat those. Chickens are yummy carnivores.

I didn't know people ate bears.
You guys are so weird. You speak some French, eat bears, what else ?

Black bear.

The meat is really stringy, and tastes sort of... bad. I’ve hunted for them, but never saw one.

Dangerous to humans, black bears. They aren’t afraid of us or our houses, which results in many encounters. A black bear isn’t as physically dangerous as a polar bear, for example, but they’re god damned big and pointy enough that from our soft pink defenseless perspective, they may as well be as dangerous.


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Re: Yulin dog meat festival (tortuous Chinese)

#35  Postby laklak » Jan 03, 2018 5:31 pm

Black bears are responsible for the vast majority of bear attacks in North America, probably because they're far more common than any other species, and as Jesse said they don't seem to fear us. We had them around the North Carolina house all the time, and they're a problem up in the Florida panhandle. Males often top 400 pounds and you really don't want to fuck with a female with cubs.

I've never eaten bear meat and have no desire to do so. I'd forgotten that chickens will eat you if you sit still long enough, probably why I'm not overly enamored of chicken. Though I did make an exceptional chicken and leek pie last night.
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Re: Yulin dog meat festival (tortuous Chinese)

#36  Postby The_Piper » Jan 03, 2018 6:19 pm

felltoearth wrote:They guard the Bifröst Bridge.

After Googling what that is, you might be right. There are people who believe that Norse reached Maine (and beyond). There's no direct evidence that I'm aware of. There are 2 things that I've heard about that interest me. The Maine Penny, found at a coastal site rich with Native American artifacts. It's certainly interesting, but I think it's just as likely to have been acquired from the Norse further north. Of course I'm not an archaeologist and my opinion is worth garbage. I think it was found at the same site that I read about a trilobite from a formation relatively far north being found, suggesting that Native Americans collected fossils. If Native Americans from the north traded the exotic trilobite, they also could have brought the coin from the north. The Maine population traded with Dorset people, I don't think that's disputed.
The other thing I know about is Maine Coon Cats, :kitten: , who's origin is unknown, and supposedly share characteristics with Norway Forest Cats. :eager:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maine_Coon#Origin
The generally accepted hypothesis among breeders is that the Maine Coon is descended from the pairings of local short-haired domestic cats and long-haired breeds brought overseas by English seafarers (possibly by Captain Charles Coon) or 11th-century Norsemen.[10][11] The connection to the Norsemen is seen in the strong resemblance of the Maine Coon to the Norwegian Forest Cat, another breed that is said to be a descendant of cats that traveled with the Norsemen.[12][13]

I don't have a "preference" about if the Norse explored New England or not, but it's fairly interesting, and I'd like to know what really happened.
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Re: Yulin dog meat festival (tortuous Chinese)

#37  Postby NineBerry » Jan 03, 2018 6:27 pm

Rachel Bronwyn wrote:I'm not sure how you put a live dog in a pot and keep it in there until it's cooked. It would be vastly more complicated than killing the animal, chopping off the bits you don't want and chucking the rest in boiling water.

Admittedly, I'd rather not google this topic to verify the matter.


There is a difference between "boiling alive" and "boiling while conscious". From the story linked further up, I get that the dogs are knocked out unconscious with a blow to the head before they are further processed. Treatment wouldn't be different than in Western slaughterhouses and less problematic than in halal or kosher slaughtering.
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Re: Yulin dog meat festival (tortuous Chinese)

#38  Postby The_Piper » Jan 03, 2018 6:48 pm

The_Metatron wrote:
aban57 wrote:
The_Piper wrote:I'm going to guess because they're usually too lean. Bears are fat enough, but they're omnivores. Lots of people Maine-iacs eat those. Chickens are yummy carnivores.

I didn't know people ate bears.
You guys are so weird. You speak some French, eat bears, what else ?

Black bear.

The meat is really stringy, and tastes sort of... bad. I’ve hunted for them, but never saw one.

Dangerous to humans, black bears. They aren’t afraid of us or our houses, which results in many encounters. A black bear isn’t as physically dangerous as a polar bear, for example, but they’re god damned big and pointy enough that from our soft pink defenseless perspective, they may as well be as dangerous.


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About black bears, there's no question that they're dangerous to people. The average black bear can probably lift more weight than Mr. Universe, while also being able to crumple up an attacking Bruce Lee and toss him onto the fire like a newspaper. :teef:
But they are afraid of people, there's also no question. They roughly match brown bears for fatal attacks, but they vastly outnumber them, and also live closer to where lots of people do, so have far more chances to attack. So as far as being in bear territory, I'd rather be in black bear territory.
I've never seen a bear in the woods while I was on foot, even though I routinely find tracks and/or scat wherever I look for it, even on my property. I spend a lot of time outdoors, so I think the most plausible explanation for my lack of sightings, is that they go out of their way to not be seen. I see them when I'm driving sometimes, because they have less time to run and hide.
They allow bear baiting here, and I find the barrels in the surrounding woods pretty frequently. That's not cool, imo, they shouldn't do that near human habitation.

I think where they are most risky is where people and bear habitat meet. Not especially in a town like mine where the population is about 5 people per square mile, but a city like Caribou, where there are 8000 people living right next to huge, bear-laden forests. The bears there have more of a chance of becoming used to humans, being fed by humans, etc., which can cause them to lose their fear of humans and associate us with food. Feeding a wild bear is not a good thing to do. The Ghost of Mr. Woodchuckles forbids it. :teef:
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Re: Yulin dog meat festival (tortuous Chinese)

#39  Postby laklak » Jan 03, 2018 6:49 pm

aban57 wrote:
I didn't know people ate bears.
You guys are so weird. You speak some French, eat bears, what else ?


If you think they're strange go talk to some Cajuns. If you can understand them, that is.
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Re: Yulin dog meat festival (tortuous Chinese)

#40  Postby The_Piper » Jan 03, 2018 7:03 pm

laklak wrote:
aban57 wrote:
I didn't know people ate bears.
You guys are so weird. You speak some French, eat bears, what else ?


If you think they're strange go talk to some Cajuns. If you can understand them, that is.

Those are my "cousins", directly related to the French-speaking population in Aroostook county and northern New Brunswick, who are also descended from Acadians. They have French accents that to my non-French speaking self sound very similar to my relatives.
Cajun is the Louisianian word for Acadian. :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cajuns#History_of_Acadian_ancestors

What else do Mainers do. Hmm. We ingest a lot of cannabis and drink a lot of beer. Some perform dentistry on themselves, but I hear that's a thing in South Africa too (Mike_L :lol: ). We talk funny, most people say. I'll vouch for that. Well the Francophones in northern Maine, and some UKian-descendants as well, farm potatoes. Perhaps most famously, we log logs. Or maybe the title of most well-known trait goes to fishing for "lobstuhz". I almost forgot blueberries, I think we lead the nation with that too. We have lots of moose, I mean shitloads. Literally too, because they shit loads. That's a lotta crap. :shock:
Hmm, there was boat-building, which in our heyday was tied to logging the forests, which still cover almost 90% of the land area statewide.
Squirrels and woodchucks though, that's all that really matters. :dopey:
Last edited by The_Piper on Jan 03, 2018 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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