Nebogipfel wrote:How about a picture of a lot of very glum/bored/scary people sitting in a cold church, with the tag line, Is there more to life than this?

I think this and the "We eat BBQ babies for breakfast" are the best suggestions so far, though to be honest I prefer the ones attacking the absurd portrayal of atheists as opposed to attacking theists directly.

SafeAsMilk wrote: though to be honest I prefer the ones attacking the absurd portrayal of atheists as opposed to attacking theists directly.

Or you can just attack god.



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quas wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote: though to be honest I prefer the ones attacking the absurd portrayal of atheists as opposed to attacking theists directly.

Or you can just attack god.
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Surely, a test of faith.

Not quite billboard material though, is it?

halucigenia wrote:

Byron wrote:

It looks almost like an atheist billboard to me - expounding on the awe of nature that most of us feel - both theist and atheist.

Yep, & it's smart in using natural awe to big up God. If you want to make something seem amazing, pick an awesome point of comparison and say your thing exceeds it. It'd be easy to have some tableaux of human misery to be transcended, but that's obvious, and the evangelicals are boxing clever.

quas wrote:To me, that ad speaks to the GREEDY nature of theists. There's so many things in this world, and yet it's never enough and they seek for more (the divine). What if one day they realize that they want more than the divine?

Good point -- and some of 'em do just that, by trading in one idea of God for another. Trade up & up & up!

Byron wrote:By contrast, here's a similar flyer from the Alpha Course.



Night and day. It draws you in visually, communicates its meaning visually, and has a punchy message. It asks a question, subconsciously triggering your curiosity. Inquisition beats declamation.

I don't see what's so amazing about this. Why does it end with a question? Maybe it's because they don't have the answers!
Because religion is a fucking Rorschach test, a mental pareidolia. They don't provide answers. They never provide answers. Instead, they throw at you an abstract, a god that cannot be detected by physical or logical means. It is up to the individual believer to connect the invisible dots and paint whatever deity they want to paint in their blank canvas. Any idiot can ask questions, what does it take to provide the right answer?

Byron wrote:

halucigenia wrote:

Byron wrote:

It looks almost like an atheist billboard to me - expounding on the awe of nature that most of us feel - both theist and atheist.

Yep, & it's smart in using natural awe to big up God. If you want to make something seem amazing, pick an awesome point of comparison and say your thing exceeds it. It'd be easy to have some tableaux of human misery to be transcended, but that's obvious, and the evangelicals are boxing clever.

quas wrote:To me, that ad speaks to the GREEDY nature of theists. There's so many things in this world, and yet it's never enough and they seek for more (the divine). What if one day they realize that they want more than the divine?

Good point -- and some of 'em do just that, by trading in one idea of God for another. Trade up & up & up!

It really riles me that providing glib answers poses as exploring anything.
The image too has a certain ambiguity that the slogan exploits. Imagine a version with a closer view of the man on the cliff edge, and then the addition of an advert for the Samaritans?

quas wrote:I don't see what's so amazing about this. Why does it end with a question? Maybe it's because they don't have the answers!

Well no, which is why the offer of certainty is so alluring.

Ian Tattum wrote:It really riles me that providing glib answers poses as exploring anything.

Me too, but charismatic evangelicals have enjoyed dizzying success, so I'm interested in learning why. (Just as I can learn from the west coast Mars Hill caveman without dedicating my life to eating of the beef and drinking of the ale. )

The image too has a certain ambiguity that the slogan exploits. Imagine a version with a closer view of the man on the cliff edge, and then the addition of an advert for the Samaritans?

Good point about the ambiguity. This is subtle marketing, and successful.

ispoketoanangel wrote:Thankfully we do have extraordinary evidence for the life, death and resurrection of Christ. Philosopher Richard Swinburne, using modern mathematics, calculated that the probability that the resurrection of Jesus is true is very high given the historical evidence we have.

wat is that even how maths works

Saim wrote:

ispoketoanangel wrote:Thankfully we do have extraordinary evidence for the life, death and resurrection of Christ. Philosopher Richard Swinburne, using modern mathematics, calculated that the probability that the resurrection of Jesus is true is very high given the historical evidence we have.

wat is that even how maths works

The math is probably OK, as far as I can tell. What is, at best, questionable is the assumptions that underlie the figures he chooses to put into the equation. That seems to be the gist of the review I linked above.

Ah, I see. I interpreted it as "Maths proves Jesus!" whereas he actually meant "there's all this evidence, here's some maths that calculates the evidence".

Saim wrote:Ah, I see. I interpreted it as "Maths proves Jesus!" whereas he actually meant "there's all this evidence, here's some maths that calculates the evidence".

That's how I understand it, anyway. The more phiolsophically inclined can confirm whether that's the case.

Byron wrote:

quas wrote:I don't see what's so amazing about this. Why does it end with a question? Maybe it's because they don't have the answers!

Well no, which is why the offer of certainty is so alluring.

Huh?

Ian Tattum wrote:Me too, but charismatic evangelicals have enjoyed dizzying success, so I'm interested in learning why. (Just as I can learn from the west coast Mars Hill caveman without dedicating my life to eating of the beef and drinking of the ale. )

Why would you want to emulate the charisma of that Mars Hill dude? Okay, he appeals to youngsters, the MTV generation or whatever, and you want that?

quas wrote:

Byron wrote:Well no, which is why the offer of certainty is so alluring.

Huh?

There are no answers, and Alpha's claim to offer them is the source of its appeal (that, and free food).

Why would you want to emulate the charisma of that Mars Hill dude? Okay, he appeals to youngsters, the MTV generation or whatever, and you want that?

I've no desire to emulate anything about Driscoll, but would like to learn from his success.

http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/2 ... illboa.php