Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

Why were many of history's most brutal regimes authored by atheists?

Atheism, secularism & freethought etc.

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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#681  Postby Nebogipfel » Jan 11, 2015 3:00 pm

carl wrote:
Did you know most Christians don't give under a banner either?


:lol: You're joking, mate.
This page lists over 16,000 Christian charities in the United Kingdom alone.

I mean, why does there have to be a Catholic Blind Institute? Why not just have a "Blind Institute"?



Why?

Matthew 6:
1 "Take care! Don't do your good deeds publicly, to be admired, because then you will lose the reward from your Father in heaven. 2 When you give a gift to someone in need, don't shout about it as the hypocrites do -- blowing trumpets in the synagogues and streets to call attention to their acts of charity! I assure you, they have received all the reward they will ever get. 3 But when you give to someone, don't tell your left hand what your right hand is doing. 4 Give your gifts in secret, and your Father, who knows all secrets, will reward you." 5 "And now about prayer. When you pray, don't be like the hypocrites who love to pray publicly on street corners and in the synagogues where everyone can see them. I assure you, that is all the reward they will ever get. 6 But when you pray, go away by yourself, shut the door behind you, and pray to your Father secretly. Then your Father, who knows all secrets, will reward you." 7 "When you pray, don't babble on and on as people of other religions do. They think their prayers are answered only by repeating their words again and again. 8 Don't be like them, because your Father knows exactly what you need even before you ask him! 9 Pray like this: Our Father in heaven, may your name be honored. 10 May your Kingdom come soon. May your will be done here on earth, just as it is in heaven. 11 Give us our food for today, 12 and forgive us our sins, just as we have forgiven those who have sinned against us. 13 And don't let us yield to temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. " 14 "If you forgive those who sin against you, your heavenly Father will forgive you. 15 But if you refuse to forgive others, your Father will not forgive your sins." 16 "And when you fast, don't make it obvious, as the hypocrites do, who try to look pale and disheveled so people will admire them for their fasting. I assure you, that is the only reward they will ever get. 17 But when you fast, comb your hair and wash your face. 18 Then no one will suspect you are fasting, except your Father, who knows what you do in secret. And your Father, who knows all secrets, will reward you."


Yes, a good question. Why do a great many Christians blatantly ignore this injunction from their Saviour? :think:
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#682  Postby Bubalus » Jan 11, 2015 3:25 pm

Nebogipfel wrote:.....

I mean, why does there have to be a Catholic Blind Institute? Why not just have a "Blind Institute"?

.......


Is it to help them not see the perfidy of Catholicism :whistle:
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#683  Postby tolman » Jan 11, 2015 5:40 pm

Nebogipfel wrote:Yes, a good question. Why do a great many Christians blatantly ignore this injunction from their Saviour? :think:

Presumably their particular human nature wins out over words they may rarely read or may have never read.

But isn't that human nature supposed to be god-given, according to many believers?
I don't do sarcasm smileys, but someone as bright as you has probably figured that out already.
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#684  Postby Nicko » Jan 12, 2015 10:48 am

Nebogipfel wrote:Yes, a good question. Why do a great many Christians blatantly ignore this injunction from their Saviour? :think:


The quoted passage gives the author's explanation, anyway.
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#685  Postby carl » Jan 12, 2015 9:41 pm

ADParker wrote:There are plenty of secular charities...


Why bring up secular charities when the previous question was about atheist charities? It is because there is no such thing as an atheist charity? Not even one? I assume someone can name one but since we've been waiting for a while, maybe not. Anyway, this is off-topic so we will end on this (good thing this thread isn't about atheist charities because that subject would be a non-starter).

Secular charities are not atheist charities anymore than secular music is atheist music.

Secular charities are made of theists, atheists, and just about everyone else so with such a mix, it makes no sense for the charity to identify with any one group.

Anyway, back to the topic. thanks.
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#686  Postby carl » Jan 12, 2015 9:55 pm

Nebogipfel wrote:It only seems to be religionists with an axe to grind who think there need to be any.


So when Christian charities feed starving children, its because Christians have an "axe to grind" but when atheists put up expensive billboards promoting atheist ideology, with the purpose of proselytizing for atheism, what is that called?
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#687  Postby THWOTH » Jan 12, 2015 10:06 pm

Political campaigning.
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#688  Postby Fallible » Jan 12, 2015 10:24 pm

carl wrote:
Nebogipfel wrote:It only seems to be religionists with an axe to grind who think there need to be any.


So when Christian charities feed starving children, its because Christians have an "axe to grind" but when atheists put up expensive billboards promoting atheist ideology, with the purpose of proselytizing for atheism, what is that called?


Why are you trying to equate two completely separate things?
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#689  Postby hackenslash » Jan 12, 2015 10:33 pm

What the fuck is 'atheist ideology' carl?
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#690  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jan 12, 2015 10:33 pm

carl wrote:
ADParker wrote:There are plenty of secular charities...


Why bring up secular charities when the previous question was about atheist charities?

Because there is no substantial difference.
A secular charity is by it's very nature atheistic.

carl wrote: It is because there is no such thing as an atheist charity? Not even one? I assume someone can name one but since we've been waiting for a while, maybe not.

Atheism is similar to not collecting stamps.
So what in you're asking in essence is a non-stamp collecting charity.

carl wrote: Anyway, this is off-topic so we will end on this (good thing this thread isn't about atheist charities because that subject would be a non-starter).

Translation: I suddenly realise I cannot defend this asinine red herring, so I'll try to drop it a.s.a.p.
Won't work carl.

carl wrote: Secular charities are not atheist charities anymore than secular music is atheist music.

Except that it is, because it adheres to no gods, it's without gods ie atheistic.

carl wrote:Secular charities are made of theists, atheists, and just about everyone else so with such a mix, it makes no sense for the charity to identify with any one group.

Some pastors and preachers are atheists, does that make their churches secular?
If charity is secular it doesn't belong to any theistic group and is therefore automatically atheistic.

carl wrote:Anyway, back to the topic. thanks.

Stop trying to dodge the difficult points in such a dishonest manner carl.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#691  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jan 12, 2015 10:34 pm

hackenslash wrote:What the fuck is 'atheist ideology' carl?

Psst, it's about how we all secretely heavily biased because of our hate for God, as well as out abuse fathers. Dontcha know? :crazy:
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#692  Postby carl » Jan 12, 2015 10:51 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:A secular charity is by it's very nature atheistic.


Is this what secular charities have said or is this your personal opinion?

If ANY secular charity has stated as such, which one? Evidence please.
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#693  Postby carl » Jan 12, 2015 10:54 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
carl wrote: Secular charities are not atheist charities anymore than secular music is atheist music.

Except that it is, because it adheres to no gods, it's without gods ie atheistic.


Anybody else agree with this?
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#694  Postby Rachel Bronwyn » Jan 12, 2015 10:56 pm

Yeah. Unless a secular charity is also atheist, no, it's not an atheist charity.
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#695  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jan 12, 2015 11:15 pm

carl wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:A secular charity is by it's very nature atheistic.


Is this what secular charities have said or is this your personal opinion?

If ANY secular charity has stated as such, which one? Evidence please.

See my other posts. By declaring themselves to be secular they are, automatically, by defintion, non-theistic = a-theistic.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#696  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jan 12, 2015 11:15 pm

Rachel Bronwyn wrote:Yeah. Unless a secular charity is also atheist, no, it's not an atheist charity.

Is a secular charity theistic?
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#697  Postby Rachel Bronwyn » Jan 12, 2015 11:25 pm

If it were theistic it wouldn't be secular. The people that make up up may be but that has no relevance to the organisation which doesn't take the matter into account. It's non-theistic. It's not rejecting the idea of theism. Theism just isn't taken into account.

You can play with word parts and justify any position on the matter but I'm not going to qualify an organisation as atheist because it doesn't take religion into account. I'm not going to give atheism or atheists credit for organisations that have no atheist underpinnings just because the org. is secular. It's secular values that those organisations are built upon and the people who uphold those secular values could be religious or not.

Furthermore, I don't care. Every study I've read has shown people who don't identify as religious give to charities less than those who do. I don't care about that either. It doesn't mean they're less good people than the religious giving to charities and even if it did suggest people who don't identify as religious are generally greedy douchebags it doesn't mean I have to be one.
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#698  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jan 13, 2015 12:18 am

Rachel Bronwyn wrote:If it were theistic it wouldn't be secular. The people that make up up may be but that has no relevance to the organisation which doesn't take the matter into account. It's non-theistic.

Which is a synonym for atheistic.
A meaning non or without, theism.

Rachel Bronwyn wrote: It's not rejecting the idea of theism.

Nor is atheism.

Rachel Bronwyn wrote: Theism just isn't taken into account.

Again, atheism:
A-non or without
theism.

Rachel Bronwyn wrote:You can play with word parts

FFS there's no playing with words, partial or whole.
It's recognising the definition of words and applying them correctly.

Oxford dictionary:
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atheist
Synonyms of atheist in English:
noun
he was an intellectually fulfilled atheist
non-believer, non-theist, disbeliever, unbeliever, heretic, sceptic, doubter, doubting Thomas, agnostic, infidel, irreligious person, heathen, pagan, freethinker, libertine, nihilist
archaic paynim
rare nullifidian
[Antonyms] believer


Rachel Bronwyn wrote: and justify any position on the matter but I'm not going to qualify an organisation as atheist because it doesn't take religion into account.

That's your perogative. Doesn't refute the point I'm making though.


Rachel Bronwyn wrote: I'm not going to give atheism or atheists credit for organisations that have no atheist underpinnings just because the org. is secular.

Straw-man.
I never said anything of the sort.
That's one of the two points I've been making for these last several pages: that atheism isn't positive claim and a such cannot be the basis for anything.
See my non-stamp-collector analogy a few posts back.
Doesn't change though, that anything that's non-theistic = atheistic. The two words being synonyms.
It has nothing to with the motivations of it's contributors or members. It just mean it isn't based on any theistic claims, dogma etc.

Rachel Bronwyn wrote: It's secular values that those organisations are built upon and the people who uphold those secular values could be religious or not.

Off point, since I never suggested otherwise.


Rachel Bronwyn wrote: Every study I've read has shown people who don't identify as religious give to charities less than those who do. I don't care about that either. It doesn't mean they're less good people than the religious giving to charities and even if it did suggest people who don't identify as religious are generally greedy douchebags it doesn't mean I have to be one.

I am skeptical of any such studies, but I agree it doesn't prove anything about the 'goodness' or charity of atheist, or theists for that matter.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#699  Postby carl » Jan 13, 2015 1:14 am

Fallible wrote:The reason for your absence is neither here nor there. I am remarking upon the pattern - you come, you dump shit, you go, you come back, skim, then dump the same shit.


I joined this forum on September 30, 2014. I have made about 230 posts since then - about 2.5 months. Does this mean I just come and go?

How many posts do you have since September 30?
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#700  Postby carl » Jan 13, 2015 1:18 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Rachel Bronwyn wrote:Yeah. Unless a secular charity is also atheist, no, it's not an atheist charity.

Is a secular charity theistic?


No. Secular holds neither theistic nor atheistic values or identity.

But to those atheists desperate to be identified with a charity, they will claim a secular charity is, by default, an atheist charity. LOL !

For those atheists who make such a ridiculous claim, apparently it matters quite a bit to them to be associated with charitable works. But why?
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