Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

Why were many of history's most brutal regimes authored by atheists?

Atheism, secularism & freethought etc.

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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#861  Postby hackenslash » Oct 30, 2018 11:53 am

truelgbt wrote:Whether atheism had any influence either way is not supportable either way. There is no way to determine this.


Exactly wrong. Atheism is a privative, and cannot have influence in this manner. There is no logical route between atheism and genocide.

I think


Not seen a huge amount of your work yet, but this claim stands entirely unsupported so far.

the OP was simply using the atheist genocide list to say, "Whether atheism had a part in these genocides I cannot say for sure but its one hellava coincidence that the most famous genocides of the 20th century and the dictators involved were atheists. That was his point. Coincidence.


No, it was a blatant commission of the 'atheist atrocities' fallacy, a well-known and long debunked attempt at poisoning the well, another fallacy, by attempting to associate all atheists with the genocidal dictators of the past, a fallacy of guilt by association, despite the fact that, for example, I have no association with any of them, because atheism isn't an association.

The amazing thing is, nobody on this forum has argued against or defended this 'coincidence' up to now.

Is it a coincidence? Yes or No? Why?


No, because it isn't actually true. Hitler, for example, was most definitely not an atheist.

That aside, those atrocities, and indeed all other genocides in history, including those of the OT, those of the 20th century and all others, are the result of adherence to doctrinal imperatives, which are features of religion. When Marx made communism an imperative, he turned it into a religion.
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#862  Postby Alan B » Oct 30, 2018 12:25 pm

How about trying to answer my question, truelgbt?
I have NO BELIEF in the existence of a God or gods. I do not have to offer evidence nor do I have to determine absence of evidence because I do not ASSERT that a God does or does not or gods do or do not exist.
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#863  Postby Cito di Pense » Oct 30, 2018 4:38 pm

truelgbt wrote:From an objective point of view,


Objectivity is something your point of view has yet to demonstrate about itself...

truelgbt wrote:genocide by God


From an objective point of view, "genocide by God" is a nonsense phrase. Was that your point? Just get to the point.

truelgbt wrote:can only be used as a claim against Christianity


When is it used as a claim against Christianity. It's usually used as a claim against the sort of God the Christians believe in.

truelgbt wrote:Or are you just saying that what they believe in makes them guilty of genocide too?


No, only an idiot (or somebody knowingly committing a rhetorical fallacy) would state that as a conclusion. So don't try to put words in anyone's posts.

truelgbt wrote:On the other hand, the list of genocides in the Original Post happened in modern times and are indeed true by all accounts although the actual numbers of those murdered varies somewhat but still in the millions dead.


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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#864  Postby truelgbt » Jan 11, 2019 8:05 am

hackenslash wrote:
truelgbt wrote:Whether atheism had any influence either way is not supportable either way. There is no way to determine this.


Exactly wrong. Atheism is a privative, and cannot have influence in this manner. There is no logical route between atheism and genocide.

I think


Not seen a huge amount of your work yet, but this claim stands entirely unsupported so far.

the OP was simply using the atheist genocide list to say, "Whether atheism had a part in these genocides I cannot say for sure but its one hellava coincidence that the most famous genocides of the 20th century and the dictators involved were atheists. That was his point. Coincidence.


No, it was a blatant commission of the 'atheist atrocities' fallacy, a well-known and long debunked attempt at poisoning the well, another fallacy, by attempting to associate all atheists with the genocidal dictators of the past, a fallacy of guilt by association, despite the fact that, for example, I have no association with any of them, because atheism isn't an association.

The amazing thing is, nobody on this forum has argued against or defended this 'coincidence' up to now.

Is it a coincidence? Yes or No? Why?


No, because it isn't actually true. Hitler, for example, was most definitely not an atheist.

That aside, those atrocities, and indeed all other genocides in history, including those of the OT, those of the 20th century and all others, are the result of adherence to doctrinal imperatives, which are features of religion. When Marx made communism an imperative, he turned it into a religion.


The list given by the OP is a Who's Who of the vast majority of genocidal maniacs of the 20th Century. In addition, they did not do most of the killing themselves since one dictator can't do all of them. So they must have had a multitude of followers of like mindedness who did the killing.

Of that entire list, you mention only ONE who was not an atheist: Hitler. What about all the others? Are you simply saying that their admission that they were, IN THEIR OWN WORDS, were evolutionists and/or atheists....was all a huge coincidence?

Do you believe in such coincidence?

I assume if they were all Christian or Muslim, you might be the first to point that fact out, but now the shoe is on your foot so its a 'coincidence' and nothing more?
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#865  Postby Cito di Pense » Jan 11, 2019 9:27 am

truelgbt wrote:Do you believe in such coincidence?


Coincidence is not something about which to get excited. Data is what we want. Consider all the atheists you didn't mention.
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#866  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jan 11, 2019 9:53 am

truelgbt wrote:

The list given by the OP is a Who's Who of the vast majority of genocidal maniacs of the 20th Century. In addition, they did not do most of the killing themselves since one dictator can't do all of them. So they must have had a multitude of followers of like mindedness who did the killing.

Of that entire list, you mention only ONE who was not an atheist: Hitler. What about all the others? Are you simply saying that their admission that they were, IN THEIR OWN WORDS, were evolutionists and/or atheists....was all a huge coincidence?

Do you believe in such coincidence?

I assume if they were all Christian or Muslim, you might be the first to point that fact out, but now the shoe is on your foot so its a 'coincidence' and nothing more?

If you're not going to address the actual points being raised, there's no point in quoting your interlocutors post.
All that accomplishes is demonstrate that you have no interest in a rational discussion and are just here to spout ill-informed polemics.

Of that entire list, you mention only ONE who was not an atheist: Hitler. What about all the others? Are you simply saying that their admission that they were, IN THEIR OWN WORDS, were evolutionists and/or atheists....was all a huge coincidence?

Do you believe in such coincidence?

They were also all men. So what?
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#867  Postby theropod » Jan 12, 2019 1:49 pm

Is there a school of trolling out there cranking out new graduates?

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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#868  Postby felltoearth » Jan 12, 2019 2:21 pm

theropod wrote:Is there a school of trolling out there cranking out new graduates?

RS

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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#869  Postby laklak » Jan 12, 2019 2:49 pm

I think there's an on-line course.
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#870  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jan 12, 2019 3:10 pm

Well it teaches them the same old crap.
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#871  Postby Keep It Real » Jan 12, 2019 3:15 pm

truelgbt! You're back! Praise Jesus! :yay:
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#872  Postby Alan B » Jan 12, 2019 3:45 pm

It's my Atheistic Mind-meld wot dun it. :snooty:

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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#873  Postby Keep It Real » Jan 12, 2019 4:42 pm

Passed down from Nimoy himself no doubt, now there's a proper atheist and no mistake. :bowdown:
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#874  Postby aban57 » Jan 12, 2019 9:53 pm

truelgbt wrote:
hackenslash wrote:
truelgbt wrote:Whether atheism had any influence either way is not supportable either way. There is no way to determine this.


Exactly wrong. Atheism is a privative, and cannot have influence in this manner. There is no logical route between atheism and genocide.

I think


Not seen a huge amount of your work yet, but this claim stands entirely unsupported so far.

the OP was simply using the atheist genocide list to say, "Whether atheism had a part in these genocides I cannot say for sure but its one hellava coincidence that the most famous genocides of the 20th century and the dictators involved were atheists. That was his point. Coincidence.


No, it was a blatant commission of the 'atheist atrocities' fallacy, a well-known and long debunked attempt at poisoning the well, another fallacy, by attempting to associate all atheists with the genocidal dictators of the past, a fallacy of guilt by association, despite the fact that, for example, I have no association with any of them, because atheism isn't an association.

The amazing thing is, nobody on this forum has argued against or defended this 'coincidence' up to now.

Is it a coincidence? Yes or No? Why?


No, because it isn't actually true. Hitler, for example, was most definitely not an atheist.

That aside, those atrocities, and indeed all other genocides in history, including those of the OT, those of the 20th century and all others, are the result of adherence to doctrinal imperatives, which are features of religion. When Marx made communism an imperative, he turned it into a religion.


The list given by the OP is a Who's Who of the vast majority of genocidal maniacs of the 20th Century. In addition, they did not do most of the killing themselves since one dictator can't do all of them. So they must have had a multitude of followers of like mindedness who did the killing.

Of that entire list, you mention only ONE who was not an atheist: Hitler. What about all the others? Are you simply saying that their admission that they were, IN THEIR OWN WORDS, were evolutionists and/or atheists....was all a huge coincidence?

Do you believe in such coincidence?

I assume if they were all Christian or Muslim, you might be the first to point that fact out, but now the shoe is on your foot so its a 'coincidence' and nothing more?


All of them were also men. is it a coincindence ?
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#875  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jan 12, 2019 10:19 pm

Who has let this git loose again?
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#876  Postby Arcanyn » Jan 12, 2019 11:12 pm

truelgbt wrote:
hackenslash wrote:
truelgbt wrote:Whether atheism had any influence either way is not supportable either way. There is no way to determine this.


Exactly wrong. Atheism is a privative, and cannot have influence in this manner. There is no logical route between atheism and genocide.

I think


Not seen a huge amount of your work yet, but this claim stands entirely unsupported so far.

the OP was simply using the atheist genocide list to say, "Whether atheism had a part in these genocides I cannot say for sure but its one hellava coincidence that the most famous genocides of the 20th century and the dictators involved were atheists. That was his point. Coincidence.


No, it was a blatant commission of the 'atheist atrocities' fallacy, a well-known and long debunked attempt at poisoning the well, another fallacy, by attempting to associate all atheists with the genocidal dictators of the past, a fallacy of guilt by association, despite the fact that, for example, I have no association with any of them, because atheism isn't an association.

The amazing thing is, nobody on this forum has argued against or defended this 'coincidence' up to now.

Is it a coincidence? Yes or No? Why?


No, because it isn't actually true. Hitler, for example, was most definitely not an atheist.

That aside, those atrocities, and indeed all other genocides in history, including those of the OT, those of the 20th century and all others, are the result of adherence to doctrinal imperatives, which are features of religion. When Marx made communism an imperative, he turned it into a religion.


The list given by the OP is a Who's Who of the vast majority of genocidal maniacs of the 20th Century. In addition, they did not do most of the killing themselves since one dictator can't do all of them. So they must have had a multitude of followers of like mindedness who did the killing.

Of that entire list, you mention only ONE who was not an atheist: Hitler. What about all the others? Are you simply saying that their admission that they were, IN THEIR OWN WORDS, were evolutionists and/or atheists....was all a huge coincidence?

Do you believe in such coincidence?

I assume if they were all Christian or Muslim, you might be the first to point that fact out, but now the shoe is on your foot so its a 'coincidence' and nothing more?


Stalin was staunchly opposed to Nazism, and committed mass murder. So, clearly there is a link between aNazism and mass murder.
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#877  Postby Alan B » Jan 14, 2019 11:22 am

The whole point of theistic religions is control. In order to achieve control stories are invented to persuade the gullible that 'paradise' (a pleasant death) awaits those who accept control and 'hell' (an unpleasant death) for those who do not.
Some theistic religions (even today) deliberately kill (or get their gullible followers to kill), that is, send prematurely to 'hell', anyone who rejects control. This approach is also used against other theistic religions who would be considered rivals that would wrest control.
The above applies to any controlling group, theistic or not, that would use force to maintain control.

An atheist has a singular non-belief in the existence of a god and does not control anybody or anything with respect to that 'non-belief'. Therefore, an atheist killing anybody who does not have a 'non-belief' in a god is not logical. It is a stupid argument put forward by theists who wish to maintain control.
Last edited by Alan B on Jan 14, 2019 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#878  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jan 14, 2019 11:24 am

That is what religion is: control.
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Re: Are Genocides Associated with Atheists?

#879  Postby zulumoose » Jan 14, 2019 11:45 am

My opinion, from casual observation of trends...

Mass murder is orchestrated by extreme control freaks.
Extreme control freaks who are in power tend not to want people to believe there is a higher power than them, or their form of government (unless they can use that belief to their advantage).
That's about as far as the association goes.
The further back you go in the past the more likely any genocide is to have religious ties, because religion was more associated with power further back in history.
This at least is a good trend. Religious control and modern morality seem inversely proportional. More religion in today's world seems to be associated with more unjust societies, more war, more suffering overall.
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